What cuts/tax increases would you accept?

Difference Engine

People have been very vocal on what cuts and tax increases they feel are unacceptable and on where they think those adjustments should be made. The criticism I have heard in response to a lot of these (quite valid) suggestions is that people only want adjustments that don't affect them.

It would be interesting to hear what cuts or tax increases people would make that would affect them directly.

Personally I would understand if Child Benefit was cut. I don't budget for it because I don't want to rely on something that can be reduced or withdrawn due to factors largely outside my control. That is probably what will happen should means testing be introduced.

Icepick

Taxes:
Get rid off certain tax credits - Age Credit and Service Charges (all) - and make married credit the same as single person credit.
Cuts:
Across the board cuts in Public Service and Welfare. But the welfare system needs to be rebuilt. Jobseeker's allowance should be based on people's PRSI payments and should go down rapidly after 6 and 12 months.

woodoo

I'm OK with a property tax and water charges. But i would not like to see the exemption net spread too wide. Only the bare minimum should be exempt. Road tax needs to be sensible and not too high (as it is for some pre-08 cars). This is especially important with the introduction of Property tax and water charges.

As a Public Servant i would be willing to have the pension levy converted to a direct paycut.

sarumite

Property tax and water charges seem a more stable tax base. An introduction of third level fees, although use most of the money for greater investment in universities, especially for STEM subjects. Bring in a charge for medical card holders.


On the cuts side, I would like to see a a more sensible approach to social welfare. A person who has been recently laid off should receive more than a person who has spent long periods on social welfare. Benchmarking within the Public sector should have already happened (the unions already agreed to two rounds of benchmarking) and an end to the de-facto automatic incremental payrises. I would actually like to see a reversal in the cuts to capital projects. University grants should be geared towards courses that offer better value to the economy.

Manach

Cut both. Taxes to incentivise workers and benefits/public sector wages to cut down government overreach and trim the entitlement culture. The home tax that is being introduced is going to divorce the government even more from reality and will not reflect the working income that people have earned.

RichardAnd

From the point of view of the example of humanity that I've seen demonstrated upon this board far too often, allow me to answer. . .

I want to see cuts in services I don't use and a tax hike on everyone but me.

bleg

Definitely a charge for the medical card. The amount it entitles you to is unbelievable. It's not just free healthcare.

I'd like to see money taken out of people's hands and it put into services. For example, reduce child benefit for kids 4+ but route the money into providing school books and breakfasts in schools.

Brussels Sprout

bleg wrote: »

Definitely a charge for the medical card. The amount it entitles you to is unbelievable. It's not just free healthcare.

I'd like to see money taken out of people's hands and it put into services. For example, reduce child benefit for kids 4+ but route the money into providing school books and breakfasts in schools.

Do you have a medical card or 4+ children?

Cookie_Monster

Rates: Need to be in the region of 1-1.5k a year for an average sized house. Removal of tv, household charge and bin costs as a result.

I'd love to see a flat rate income tax brought in, remove all credits, prsi, levy etc and have to pay say 15% or 20% of all your income. Yes it'll mean a tax increase but it'd be so so much fairer. Everyone can understand their tax payments, huge amount of admin removed.

I'd also like to see child benefit removed for more than one child, there's no need to be encouraging people to have kids by paying them for it.

Water charges: no different to elec and gas, need to be paid for based on use and money returned to the infrastructure and maintenance of supply.

Dole needs to be reformed so that it allows for sliding scales the longer you're on it, much like many EU countries practice.

woodoo

bleg wrote: »

Definitely a charge for the medical card..

I agree. €5 per visit for Medical Card holders, €10 per visit for G.P Visit card holders. That should allow the doctors to reduce the cost for private patients to a fairer €30 or so.

bleg

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Do you have a medical card or 4+ children?

Nope but I have seen the wastage that happens with medical card patients.

They come into the pharmacy with a pain somewhere. I offer paracetamol (24 for €2.32) or ibuprofen (24 for €3). They say no thanks and come back 2 hours later with a GMS prescription. Ridiculous.


Also I meant children over the age of 4.

bleg

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'd love to see a flat rate income tax brought in, remove all credits, prsi, levy etc and have to pay say 15% or 20% of all your income. Yes it'll mean a tax increase but it'd be so so much fairer. Everyone can understand their tax payments, huge amount of admin removed.

Is there really that much admin involved in a two tier tax system though? Any examples of this. I'm just wondering, not trying to get into an argument.

Brussels Sprout

bleg wrote: »

Nope but I have seen the wastage that happens with medical card patients.

They come into the pharmacy with a pain somewhere. I offer paracetamol (24 for €2.32) or ibuprofen (24 for €3). They say no thanks and come back 2 hours later with a GMS prescription. Ridiculous.


Also I meant children over the age of 4.

The whole point of the thread is the bolded piece below. Otherwise it's just another "cut everything that I don't personally like and doesn't afffect me!" thread

OP wrote: »

It would be interesting to hear what cuts or tax increases people would make that would affect them directly.

BOHtox

There's a few off the top of my head but with Labour in Government it won't happen.
1. Only give Child Benefit to those who really need it. There's no need for people in the middle or high income brackets to get it. I know they'd like the extra €30 a month but we're losing 15billion a year. This would probably save close to €1b
2. Abolish the Senate. It's pointless and has no powers. We're employing 60 useless politicians and their advisors etc. which you don't need.
3. Scrap the Croke Park Agreement and sack useless Public Sector workers and abolish a lot of quangos.
4. Completely reform the increments system.
5. A reduction in the number of councillors. Maybe only have 60% of the number of councillors we have now.
6. Scrap the communion allowance altogether.
That would probably save 2.5b which is the most of the adjustments needed for this year. The rest will be made up from a proper household and Water Charge generating the 3.8 billion required for this budget.
Edit: I almost forgot. Abolish foreign aid! Saving €1 billion euro bringing savings to 4.8 billion.

I would also get rid of a lot of red tape which may save money or it may not. A reduction in tax is needed however to help increase spending.

Cookie_Monster

bleg wrote: »

Is there really that much admin involved in a two tier tax system though? Any examples of this. I'm just wondering, not trying to get into an argument.

it's not the two tiers, it's the huge amounts of credit and qualifications for such credits and the paperwork processing to apply for such and seek refunds and change between partners and so forth.

woodoo

BOHtox wrote: »

There's a few off the top of my head but with Labour in Government it won't happen.
1. Only give Child Benefit to those who really need it. There's no need for people in the middle or high income brackets to get it. I know they'd like the extra €30 a month but we're losing 15billion a year. This would probably save close to €1b
2. Abolish the Senate. It's pointless and has no powers. We're employing 60 useless politicians and their advisors etc. which you don't need.
3. Scrap the Croke Park Agreement and sack useless Public Sector workers and abolish a lot of quangos.
4. Completely reform the increments system.
5. A reduction in the number of councillors. Maybe only have 60% of the number of councillors we have now.
6. Scrap the communion allowance altogether.
That would probably save 2.5b which is the most of the adjustments needed for this year. The rest will be made up from a proper household and Water Charge generating the 3.8 billion required for this budget.
Edit: I almost forgot. Abolish foreign aid! Saving €1 billion euro bringing savings to 4.8 billion.

I would also get rid of a lot of red tape which may save money or it may not. A reduction in tax is needed however to help increase spending.

The question is what cuts would you accept? Plenty in there about other people

BOHtox

woodoo wrote: »

The question is what cuts would you accept? Plenty in there about other people

1 & 4 would affect my family

BOHtox wrote: »

There's a few off the top of my head but with Labour in Government it won't happen.
1. Only give Child Benefit to those who really need it. There's no need for people in the middle or high income brackets to get it. I know they'd like the extra €30 a month but we're losing 15billion a year. This would probably save close to €1b
2. Abolish the Senate. It's pointless and has no powers. We're employing 60 useless politicians and their advisors etc. which you don't need.
3. Scrap the Croke Park Agreement and sack useless Public Sector workers and abolish a lot of quangos.
4. Completely reform the increments system.
5. A reduction in the number of councillors. Maybe only have 60% of the number of councillors we have now.
6. Scrap the communion allowance altogether.
That would probably save 2.5b which is the most of the adjustments needed for this year. The rest will be made up from a proper household and Water Charge generating the 3.8 billion required for this budget.
Edit: I almost forgot. Abolish foreign aid! Saving €1 billion euro bringing savings to 4.8 billion.

I would also get rid of a lot of red tape which may save money or it may not. A reduction in tax is needed however to help increase spending.

relax carry on

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

bleg wrote: »

Is there really that much admin involved in a two tier tax system though? Any examples of this. I'm just wondering, not trying to get into an argument.

it's not the two tiers, it's the huge amounts of credit and qualifications for such credits and the paperwork processing to apply for such and seek refunds and change between partners and so forth.

The bulk of which can now be done online. PAYE Anytime or ROS anyone?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/online/index.html

relax carry on

Icepick wrote: »

Taxes:
Get rid off certain tax credits - Age Credit and Service Charges (all) - and make married credit the same as single person credit.
Cuts:
Across the board cuts in Public Service and Welfare. Nut the welfare system needs to be rebuilt. Jobseeker's allowance should be based on people's PRSI payments and should go down rapidly after 6 and 12 months.

Service charges are gone since 2011. Not sure what you are on about with the married tax credit? All it is, is the combination of two single credits in a joint assessed case which is only of benefit if one of the couple is on very low income, say less than 8250 euro a year.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it2.html#section4

Jobseekers benefit is already based on PRSI contributions; Jobseekers allowance is means tested?

K-9

Difference Engine wrote: »

People have been very vocal on what cuts and tax increases they feel are unacceptable and on where they think those adjustments should be made. The criticism I have heard in response to a lot of these (quite valid) suggestions is that people only want adjustments that don't affect them.

It would be interesting to hear what cuts or tax increases people would make that would affect them directly.

Personally I would understand if Child Benefit was cut. I don't budget for it because I don't want to rely on something that can be reduced or withdrawn due to factors largely outside my control. That is probably what will happen should means testing be introduced.

The OP is very clear.

This is about cuts or taxes that would affect posters personally.

E.g. Saying cutting Public Service pay and you don't work there is off topic!

Please include in your reply how the cuts and taxes would effect you personally. Plenty of other threads to post what you think should be done generally.

n97 mini

bleg wrote: »

They come into the pharmacy with a pain somewhere. I offer paracetamol (24 for €2.32) or ibuprofen (24 for €3)

Which is a complete rip-off. 16 paracetamol for 16p in Tesco, and 16 ibuprofen for 16p in Asda.

PauloMN

Difference Engine wrote: »

People have been very vocal on what cuts and tax increases they feel are unacceptable and on where they think those adjustments should be made. The criticism I have heard in response to a lot of these (quite valid) suggestions is that people only want adjustments that don't affect them.

It would be interesting to hear what cuts or tax increases people would make that would affect them directly.

Personally I would understand if Child Benefit was cut. I don't budget for it because I don't want to rely on something that can be reduced or withdrawn due to factors largely outside my control. That is probably what will happen should means testing be introduced.

Child benefit is the one that would affect me. If it was to be reduced, I would accept it reluctantly. Wouldn't be happy obviously, but we are absolutely screwed as a country, so if it needs to happen, so be it.

As for means testing, they'd need to be very careful how the manage the means testing. You hear these terms "low-paid", "middle-income" and "rich" etc., but what do they mean? We're in the lucky position of having two incomes (one full, one part-time) in our house, but we don't have much left after paying for everything and I'd regard us as being very prudent with money. Reducing - or even worse, taking away our child benefit would put a big dent in what we have left over at the end of a month.

The big concern to me about child benefit is that if you cut it, a lot of jobs in childcare will go with it. Believe it or not, people do spend their child benefit on their kids. These kids are VAT generators big time, and that should be remembered by the government when they consider cutting this benefit from working families. Working families get precious little else in terms of benefits.

As for cuts in general, I think everything should be on the table. I'm sick of this idea of certain groups being protected from cuts to their entitlements. Everyone should take a hit, in proportion to their incomes. That includes dole recipients, pensioners, the low income, the middle income, the rich - everyone. Not a popular view I know, but that's my opinion. The only groups I would single out for possible exemption from cuts would be very specific groups like carers (who save the state a fortune), individuals with special needs, disabilities and the like. But general cuts across all groups need to be made.

Dannyboy83

I don't receive any transfers and have only standard tax credits, so only thing which could really affect me would be taxation.

That's also the fairest way to do it in my view.
I would accept increases in income tax.
That would also be a way to tackle the croke park agreement...people who earn more, pay more.

I would like to see Vat heavily reduced, fuel duty heavily reduced etc.
We're an island - half of these things don't even make much sense for an island nation.

Simplify the whole thing, deduct the money at source, increase social transfers to people who need it if required.

djpbarry

I don't live in Ireland anymore, so no cuts or tax increases are going to affect me directly. However, both of my parents have been unemployed in Ireland for some time now. I can't actually remember how long my Dad's been unemployed, but he has made absolutely no attempt to find a new job since he lost his last one in what must have been around about 2005. As far as he's concerned, he's retired, even though he is still some way off retirement age (57). Granted, he worked very hard up until he lost his job - he often did a 7-day week in the 80's and early 90's. But the idea that he can retire in his early 50's, while complaining about the "the bastards" in the Dail taking away his money through welfare cuts, is absolutely ludicrous.

My mother is of a similar mindset. She went back to work in the late 90's having been out of the workforce since the early 80's. She lost her job in late 2009 and did initially make a concerted effort to find another position. However, when it became clear that she would most likely have to retrain to some extent (nothing major, just brush up on computer skills and the like, something she could even have done at home in her own time with the help of family), she gradually lost interest - I don't think she's made a serious attempt to find a job in about 18 months.

The problem is that both of them can live quite comfortably on €190 per week (even though my mother is now means tested, I think her weekly allowance has only been slightly reduced). I can see absolutely no reason why this allowance cannot be reduced quite considerably. For example, both of them spend considerable amounts on alcohol and tobacco every week - taxpayers should not be funding such expenditure.

While I don't agree with the general consensus that current welfare levels mean there is no incentive for many unemployed people to find work (personally I believe there is always an incentive to find work), I do think it makes it very easy to sink into a rut.

So Ireland, tell your local representatives to cut welfare. Drastically.

Gurgle

Taking it to a personal level, its a difficult question to answer.

What extra taxes would I accept: It doesn't actually matter what headline they put on the tax bill, as a middle income PAYE worker with a house, car and family I'm going to have to pay it. Water tax, household charge, window tax, gravity tax, air tax... all means the same to me.

What cuts in services: When it comes down to it, what services am I getting in exchange for the tax bill?
Education: I guess there's room to cut teacher - student ratios. There also seem to be a huge number of non-classroom staff in schools these days (admin, SNAs, home-school liason etc), plenty of room for streamlining.

Roads: I rarely see a proper road, but I guess that's a symptom of Dublin Empire government. They could cut the roads / transport budget by 100% and I wouldn't notice for a month.

Law and Order: I think there's plenty of room to save money without a reduction in service. If the court system could be made to actually work, the Gardaì would have less to do.

Health is private, water soon will be... what other services does the government / state actually provide?

KIERAN1

Broadband tax is acceptable to me. A tax that could replace the household charge, but a tax that will bring fibre and cable internet to rural areas, thus help stimulate the economy. Obviously the government has to pay back some of the debts and bills they owe so some money from that broadband tax will have to go towards paying the public accounts.

djpbarry

Gurgle wrote: »

I rarely see a proper road...

Ah, come on now - the roads in Ireland are excellent relative to what they were like 20 years ago.

Gurgle

djpbarry wrote: »

Ah, come on now - the roads in Ireland are excellent relative to what they were like 20 years ago.

The main roads to and from Dublin, yes. The country roads are largely unchanged.

Actually, I cross the N3, M3, N2, M1. They're very nice.
I particularly like the way the M3 looks so tidy, hardly any cars to ruin the view of tarmac.

creedp

Gurgle wrote: »

The main roads to and from Dublin, yes. The country roads are largely unchanged.

Actually, I cross the N3, M3, N2, M1. They're very nice.
I particularly like the way the M3 looks so tidy, hardly any cars to ruin the view of tarmac.

Blame the tolls for that.

PauloMN

KIERAN1 wrote: »

Broadband tax is acceptable to me. A tax that could replace the household charge, but a tax that will bring fibre and cable internet to rural areas, thus help stimulate the economy. Obviously the government has to pay back some of the debts and bills they owe so some money from that broadband tax will have to go towards paying the public accounts.

:eek:

It's already taxed!

How could it replace the household tax? Local services still have to be paid for.

Taxing something like broadband even more would be a retrograde step imo. Our broadband is already very expensive for what you get. Broadband is essential to people trying to get back to work, and to those at work. More tax on it and you'll force people into dropping it, or dropping their packages.

The_Honeybadger

I'd accept a reduction in child benefit and a reduction in tax credits. Both will effect me directly and make life more difficult but i accept it needs to be done. Also I support a pay by usage water charge. Don't own a house so property tax won't hit me directly but I hope to own a house at some point in the future and would have no difficulty with a property tax in principle as long as there isn't exemptions for everybody except those who actually already contribute to the tax system. Everybody needs to pay something to help the country back on it's feet ASAP. I'd also be in favour of reducing the tax reliefs on a phased basis if necessary on things like mortgage interest and pension contributions.

Icepick

K-9 wrote: »

E.g. Saying cutting Public Service pay and you don't work there is off topic!

Strikes would not affect us now? Sweet.

Francie Barrett

Cuts I would accept.

Slashing public sector pay by 30%.
Slash social welfare payments by 30%.
Abolish the quangos.
Abolish the Seannad.
Reduce county council organisation numbers.
Wealth tax on millionaires.

Icepick

Defence forces budget could be cut by 1/2 or altogether as well.

earlyevening

Abolish the 1650 PAYE tax credit. Save 3 billion right there.

Increase USC to 10% on income over 100,000 on all tax payers, not just the self employed.

Cut SW to below 2006 levels at least.

Repeat the public sector pay cuts along the same income thresholds, ie 3-10% cuts depending on pay.

Rationalise all the tiny rural schools. Amalgamate.

Icepick

earlyevening wrote: »

Abolish the 1650 PAYE tax credit. Save 3 billion right there.

And by save you mean take.

earlyevening

Icepick wrote: »

And by save you mean take.

Yes. Redistributed to maintain the living standards of the unemployed etc.

Farmer Pudsey

I would accept any tax increases that were equitable however in this country this will not happen
What we need to do to solve the problems
Get rid of at least half the quango's ( we have 800 odd) I use 1 or two
Reduce Public service pay 30-50 k (2-4%) 50-100k(5-8%) 100K-200K(8-25%) My wife is a PS
Reduce Child Benfit accross the board by 10% I believe that Child Benfit is the only pension scheme that works next generation tax payers and next generation welfare spongers
Introduce fair water and household charge's and increase Council rents to reflect them
Get rid of welfare extra's and reduce by 20%
Algamate County Councils and coporations until we have only 8-12 in the country
Abolish the Senead
Reduce No of TD's to 100, 85 elected and 15 appointed by government
Reduce Old Age Pension by 10% but increase the old age living alone rate by 10%
Increase third level fee's but also increase hour's of leacture that students get and attendance records for parent's
Equalise pre and post 2008 car tax's
Reduce health care costs introduce an option that at 70 anyone can opt for a medical card cost 400 euro's per year if above income limit of 15-18K

earlyevening

Make renters pay council charge, not just property owners. (Like in the UK)

Do renters not avail of council services?

Farmer Pudsey

earlyevening wrote: »

Make renters pay council charge, not just property owners. (Like in the UK)

Do renters not avail of council services?

Did you not hears of waivers an Irish solution to an Irish problem

earlyevening

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Did you not hears of waivers an Irish solution to an Irish problem

I'd accept waivers for the unemployed/lone parent not working. Thats about it.

Everyone else should pay, regardless of income.

Tigerandahalf

The one thing I'd like to see is an end to exemptions. Even if people have to pay only a small amount for a service they will have a lot more respect for it and will be less likely to abuse it. People on medical cards should have to pay a certain small amount for everything they get. People in council houses should also contribute something.

The Seanad should have been scrapped years ago. When I hear lads like that Ronan Mullen, it just makes its scrapping all the more necessary. Too many people in there on a free ride.

A root and branch review of political spending. Let's see what Colm McCarthy could find. Some of the waste there is a shame. Why should TDs get so much expenses? Why should their petrol expenses be fully covered when some people are driving a 3 hr round trip every day.

There is still a hell of a lot of waste out there and a huge amount of people/businesses living off the state and securing contracts through cute hoorism. It has to end.

Icepick

earlyevening wrote: »

Yes. Redistributed to maintain the living standards of the unemployed etc.

You want to cut SW as well so why would you need to redistribute it?
Also, if you redistribute it, then the state obviously won't decrease the deficit.
And this would significantly increase taxes of the lowest paid so it is a terrible idea.

earlyevening wrote: »

Make renters pay council charge, not just property owners. (Like in the UK)

Do renters not avail of council services?

This would not collect more money. Rent depends on market value and that includes whatever costs the landlord has.

earlyevening

Icepick wrote: »

You want to cut SW as well so why would you need to redistribute it?
Also, if you redistribute it, then the state obviously won't decrease the deficit.
And this would significantly increase taxes of the lowest paid so it is a terrible idea.


This would not collect more money. Rent depends on market value and that includes whatever costs the landlord has.

re the first point: Was being sarcastic. Forgot the emoticon.


No property tax is paid (will be paid) by working people renting off the councils. They're the very people who use local services the most and they dont contribute to them. Wasnt there a suggestion that a SF TD on 90k per annum lives in local authority housing a while back?

Icepick

earlyevening wrote: »

No property tax is paid (will be paid) by working people renting off the councils. They're the very people who use local services the most and they dont contribute to them. Wasnt there a suggestion that a SF TD on 90k per annum lives in local authority housing a while back?

I thought you meant every renter.
People in council houses should indeed pay the charge.

amen

1: Reduce Tax Credits (would affect me)
2: Reduce Child benefit by 20% or means test it (have children so would affect me)
3: Pay per use water charges (would affect me)
4: Property Tax. I own my on own house (well some of it. The bank owns the rest) (would affect me)
5: Reduce all PS/CS wages so that no PS/CS gets more than 3 times the average industrial wage (would not affect me but would affect my siblings)
6: Increase Tax Rates by 1% (would affect me)

Stheno

I budgeted this year to have a five percent reduction in my net income after PRSI/PAYE/USC changes, and to have to spend €100 on the household charge.

Net income has gone down by significantly less, and I'm in the higher band, but not earning a small fortune like 100k or anything like that

So I'd support higher PAYE, lower credits to bring more into the tax net, which would both affect me, as well as water charges and a property tax based on property value, which would also affect me.

However I'd also like to see significant reductions of an equal level to my increased tax to SW pensions and JSA/JSB and a reduction in the tax breaks for pensions (which would also affect me) and reductions in PRSI breaks after the 75K or whatever limit it is now that reduces PRSI contributions above that level of income.

Overall I think that's fair and relatively equitable and very visible.

Child benefit I'd like to see means tested

Marinjohn

Icepick wrote: »

I thought you meant every renter.
People in council houses should indeed pay the charge.

I live in a council house and our rent had a huge increase last year..So as far as I am concerned I am paying more than enough for the house charge!

Cookie_Monster

Marinjohn wrote: »

I live in a council house and our rent had a huge increase last year..So as far as I am concerned I am paying more than enough for the house charge!

ah but what would you pay for a similar house on the open market eh?

Marinjohn

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ah but what would you pay for a similar house on the open market eh?

Well to be honest CM the gap in rents is closing between council and private rental accomodation...Perhaps if a person is out of work their rents would be lower,but then again if a person is unemployed and renting privately they can claim a rent allowance...The advantages of renting privately above council housing is you can choose where you want to live and I can assure life in council estates is not to sweet...So you get what you pay for...Also in my personal experience the standard of accomodation in private housing is far superior in quality ...At least to where I live!