car wont hold in first gear

2pack · 19-04-2012 8:26am #1

my friends 02 peugeot 406 2l hdi will not hold in first gear, its drives great, goes into all gears perfect and no grinding in gearbox but when its in first gear on a hill its starts to creep forward slightly all the time.

Jesus Shaves · 19-04-2012 8:27am

Sounds like the clutch is going

2pack · 19-04-2012 8:39am

thinking that myself but clutch is biting at halfway so plenty left there i would think unless its another problem with it like fluid etc

Anan1 · 19-04-2012 8:49am

This is a manual car, right? Are you saying that it creeps forward in first with the clutch fully depressed?

2pack · 19-04-2012 9:34am

yes manual, its creeps or rolls ever so slightly every 10seconds or so when parked on(ignition off)a slight hill.

its the same effect you would get if you parked the car and left it in a high gear in that it would gradually roll forward a bit then stop then roll again

dgt · 19-04-2012 9:39am

A similar problem arose with my old Fiesta. Basically press the clutch to the floor, engsge 1st and after a second or 2 the car would creep foreward. The problem was a faulty slave cylinder, it was letting the fluid out thus allowing the clutch to re engage.

Start here, check your brake fluid and see if its going down, I think this might be your problem

Anan1 · 19-04-2012 9:43am

2pack wrote: »

yes manual, its creeps or rolls ever so slightly every 10seconds or so when parked on(ignition off)a slight hill.

Here's my theory: When you leave a car in first on a hill, engine compression will stop it from rolling. Over time, though, the compression will leak past the valve seals and rings, allowing the car to slowly move.

19-04-2012 9:43am

2pack wrote: »

my friends 02 peugeot 406 2l hdi will not hold in first gear, its drives great, goes into all gears perfect and no grinding in gearbox but when its in first gear on a hill its starts to creep forward slightly all the time.

2pack wrote: »

yes manual, its creeps or rolls ever so slightly every 10seconds or so when parked on(ignition off)a slight hill.

its the same effect you would get if you parked the car and left it in a high gear in that it would gradually roll forward a bit then stop then roll again

So when left in first gear, on a hill, engine and handbrake off it moves forward a bit?

2pack · 21-04-2012 9:24am

OSI wrote: »

Does he not use the handbrake

yes he does but there is still a problem there, the car should still hold it in first gear without moving, it should not move at all unless there some problem there, it will roll forward slightly then stop then roll again

Henry Ford III · 21-04-2012 9:45am

If it moves forward there is an element of drive, so the clutch is partially engaging.

It's most likely a hydraulic fluid leak. Fix it, or the clutch will burn out.

Anan1 · 21-04-2012 9:45am

2pack wrote: »

yes he does but there is still a problem there, the car should still hold it in first gear without moving, it should not move at all unless there some problem there,

Why do you think that?

2pack · 21-04-2012 10:23pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If it moves forward there is an element of drive, so the clutch is partially engaging.

It's most likely a hydraulic fluid leak. Fix it, or the clutch will burn out.

hi the footbrake does feel a little spongy,the brake fluid level is ok and not losing any fluid

21-04-2012 10:32pm

2pack wrote: »

hi the brakes do feel a little spongy,the brake fluid level is ok and not losing any fluid

Brake fluid has nothing to do with the handbrake in most cases (if not all case, just saying most as I'm not 100% :pac: )

jdmluder · 23-04-2012 10:31am

its normal for each cylinder to lose compression through the expansion gap on each of the piston rings on each piston. The turbo charger means the engine has lower compression anyways so this results in the creep. Tell ur friend to use his handbrake.

23-04-2012 10:35am

jdmluder wrote: »

............The turbo charger means the engine has lower compression anyways ............

Lower compression than what? It's a diesel

jdmluder · 23-04-2012 10:41am

RoverJames wrote: »

jdmluder wrote: »

............The turbo charger means the engine has lower compression anyways ............

Lower compression than what? It's a diesel

Lower than a non turbo diesel. When the car is not running the turbo isn't creating the extra pressure. Its why non turbo diesels are easier to bump start

23-04-2012 10:45am

It's not lower than most petrols though

jdmluder · 23-04-2012 10:50am

RoverJames wrote: »

It's not lower than most petrols though

Petrols have different gearing amd they creep also

Henry Ford III · 23-04-2012 10:58am

2pack wrote: »

hi the footbrake does feel a little spongy,the brake fluid level is ok and not losing any fluid

Brakes may be an entirely different hydraulic sysytem to the clutch.

Henry Ford III · 23-04-2012 11:00am

jdmluder wrote: »

its normal for each cylinder to lose compression through the expansion gap on each of the piston rings on each piston. The turbo charger means the engine has lower compression anyways so this results in the creep. Tell ur friend to use his handbrake.

Nonsense.

If the clutch is in good health and engaged it completely cuts the drive from the engine to the gearbox. The car cannot creep forward. Makes no difference what engine it is.

23-04-2012 11:12am

jdmluder wrote: »

Petrols have different gearing amd they creep also

So the creeping in this case is due to it being a turbo diesel. I think not to be honest

langdang · 23-04-2012 11:12am

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Nonsense.

If the clutch is in good health and engaged it completely cuts the drive from the engine to the gearbox. The car cannot creep forward. Makes no difference what engine it is.

Maybe I'm reading this thread wrong - but if the car is parked up in gear, no handbrake, ignition off, clutch not pressed, on a hill then it's not surprising to have a bit of roll? (amount of roll depending on weight of car, angle of hill, compression and gear ratios)

edit - not saying that you're saying is wrong henry, but it's not applicable in this case based on my understanding of the "problem" here?

23-04-2012 11:15am

langdang wrote: »

Maybe I'm reading this thread wrong - but if the car is parked up in gear, no handbrake, ignition off, clutch not pressed, on a hill then it's not surprising to have a bit of roll? (amount of roll depending on weight of car, angle of hill, compression and gear ratios)

Of course, push starting would be impossible otherwise.

jdmluder · 23-04-2012 11:16am

Henry Ford III wrote: »

jdmluder wrote: »

its normal for each cylinder to lose compression through the expansion gap on each of the piston rings on each piston. The turbo charger means the engine has lower compression anyways so this results in the creep. Tell ur friend to use his handbrake.[/QbyUOTE]

Nonsense.

If the clutch is in good health and engaged it completely cuts the drive from the engine to the gearbox. The car cannot creep forward. Makes no difference what engine it is.

No sir you are incorrect. The clutch does exactly the opposite to what you said. A fully engaged clutch with zero slippage will mean that the fly wheel is locked to the input shaft of the gearbox. If the torque created by the hill on the drive wheels can overcome the air pressure in the closed cylinder then the car will creep.

langdang · 23-04-2012 11:18am

RoverJames wrote: »

Of course, push starting would be impossible otherwise.

Ah jesus you ruined that for me, I was just setting it up to come in there movie courtcase style with that

jdmluder · 23-04-2012 11:24am

RoverJames wrote: »

jdmluder wrote: »

Petrols have different gearing amd they creep also

So the creeping in this case is due to it being a turbo diesel. I think not to be honest

No it is as i originally explained due to the compression in the engine not being sufficient to overcome the force from the hill. It will for few seconds but due to the cylinders not being fully 100% sealed that air pressure will drop and the car will creep

Nissan doctor · 23-04-2012 11:41am

My jaysus there is some jibberish in this thread.

If the clutch was slipping under the pressure of the weight of the car on a hill, then the car would be undrivable on the road.

Brake fluid/clutch fluid can't have anything to do with it.

If you park a car on a hill, in gear, with no handbrake, the only thing that holds it is cylinder compression.....so if its not holding, thats where the problem is....and on a HDI engine, I'd be looking at injector seals.

jdmluder · 23-04-2012 11:47am

Nissan doctor wrote: »

My jaysus there is some jibberish in this thread.

If the clutch was slipping under the pressure of the wight of the car on a hill, then the car would be undrivable on the road.

Brake fluid/clutch fluid can't have anything to do with it.

If you park a car on a hill, in gear, with no handbrake, the only thing that holds it is cylinder compression.....so if its not holding, thats where the problem is....and on a HDI engine, I'd be looking at injector seals.

Could be alrite. Would four seals fail together with no driving issues tho?

Nissan doctor · 23-04-2012 11:51am

jdmluder wrote: »

Could be alrite. Would four seals fail together with no driving issues tho?

They can leak, as the leak get worse you can hear it but most people would never notice the slight reduction in power over time.

jdmluder · 23-04-2012 11:56am

Nissan doctor wrote: »

jdmluder wrote: »

Could be alrite. Would four seals fail together with no driving issues tho?

They can leak, as the leak get worse you can hear it but most people would never notice the slight reduction in power over time.

Would this be a leak up through the injector or around the injector. What are the methods to check each?

Nissan doctor · 23-04-2012 12:02pm

jdmluder wrote: »

Would this be a leak up through the injector or around the injector. What are the methods to check each?

Around the injectors, a very simple way is just spray a load of WD40 or similar around them and watch for bubbles or blow by when the engine is running.

car wont hold in first gear

Comments