Meeting with my boss re: my working hours - how do I broach this?

Sea Filly

I have a meeting with my boss in next few days (TBA) to discuss what I feel are my currently excessive work hours.

A bit of background. I started my job last month. I'm a research assistant earning just under €20,000 per annum. I should say that I love my job, it's very stimulating and interesting. But the work hours have been excessive so far.

Last night for example, I worked from 08:15 to 22:45 yesterday with about an hour of a break in total throughout the day. The day before, it was 09:00 to 21:30. There have been one or two days like this every week since I started, and one week there was two days like that and on top of that, I didn't finish until 7 or 8 in the evening the other nights.

Following on from my mammoth working schedule yesterday, I was to be in 9am for a lab meeting this morning... that didn't happen, I awoke at 10:30. I've read about my rights, and apparently the minimum rest an employee should get is 11 hours between days. I was unbelieveably exhausted coming home last night and tried to wake this morning but my body just wouldn't allow it. So I emailed my boss and supervisor and went in at lunchtime. They seemed OK with what happened and we will be meeting to discuss it.

Thing is, I know long days are part of the job, that's just how some experiments work. But there should be balance somewhere, such as half days. I don't earn enough to be pulling those hours and then working full days the other days of the week, 5 days a week. It's a bit of a nightmare though, I don't want to be thought of as a troublesome employee and am afraid I'll get that reputation. I've been given one half day so far in a month but have probably worked ten 12+ hour days at this stage.

Basically, in the meeting, what I want to convey is that I love my job (I do) but that I'm not Superwoman. How should I broach it?

Thanks!

genericguy

I was in a similar situation a few years back, researcher working demented hours - i'll go ahead and presume it's biological research you;re involved in given the hours you work.

I'd advise you that if it's a case that you're meeting deadlines, or producing tangible results, by all means argue your case. If not, in that line of work, you really won't be in a position to argue. I would suggest asking that given the hours you put in watching experiments (and lets be honest, more of a scientist's work is spent finding out what doesn't work and banging your head against a wall), that if your methods are sound and everything is done according to experimental design, that you are given some flexibility throughout the week to live your life. Most PIs are cool enough if you sell it to them that way.

Also, in terms of career progression, in the research end of things, it simply is a case of paying your dues and sucking it up until you get more senior unfortunately - if you're looking for a Ph.D. gig for example, it will be those shítty jobs that tip the scale in your favour. Ultimately I got sick enough of it that I decided the lab wasn't for me and walked - best move I ever made, but that's your own call.

Sea Filly

genericguy wrote: »

If not, in that line of work, you really won't be in a position to argue.

I'm not really following here, what do you mean? As far as I see, as long as I am working diligently, I should be treated fairly. As you well know in biology, results aren't always forthcoming no matter how hard or well you work. NATURALLY I have well-designed experiments, wouldn't be much of a researcher if I didn't!

And I'm not a student, I'm a salaried worker so I don't see why I shouldn't have the same rights as any other employee in any other sector. The research students in the lab sometimes work late but they'll be doctors at the end of it! This is my job!

donkey balls

The WTD states that an employee must have a break after 4.5hrs of work 15 mins and after six hours work 30 min break also a minimun of eleven hours rest in between shifts is required.
Could be worse if your a truck/Bus driver you could start work just say at 0600 and finish for 2100 that evening and be back in work the following morning for 0600.
If your not getting paid o/t for the hours worked and are on salary the company should give you time in lieu off what does your employment contract state.

genericguy

Sea Filly wrote: »

I'm not really following here, what do you mean? As far as I see, as long as I am working diligently, I should be treated fairly. As you well know in biology, results aren't always forthcoming no matter how hard or well you work. NATURALLY I have well-designed experiments, wouldn't be much of a researcher if I didn't!

And I'm not a student, I'm a salaried worker so I don't see why I shouldn't have the same rights as any other employee in any other sector. The research students in the lab sometimes work late but they'll be doctors at the end of it! This is my job!

What I was saying was that if you are not delivering on the targets set for you, then you will not be in a position to argue a case for flexibility in working hours. I also detect a note of arrogance with your statement on the well-designed nature of your experiments, however you must appreciate that I can't see your work to verify this and in the event that your supervisor doesn't agree with you it will be a point of contention if you make such a request.

I didn't suggest you were a student either. Most research assistants are degree qualified and hoping to get into a Ph.D., which is why I made the analogy.

Simply produce your work, all results from the last x number of experimental runs, valid reasons as to why you're there late and demonstrate that any dogsbody duties that you may have in terms of the upkeep of the lab are being completed and you'll be fine.

Sea Filly

donkey balls wrote: »

The WTD states that an employee must have a break after 4.5hrs of work 15 mins and after six hours work 30 min break also a minimun of eleven hours rest in between shifts is required.
Could be worse if your a truck/Bus driver you could start work just say at 0600 and finish for 2100 that evening and be back in work the following morning for 0600.
If your not getting paid o/t for the hours worked and are on salary the company should give you time in lieu off what does your employment contract state.

I'd have to find that to have a look. But what you quoted there would be the basic rights, I think.

Kinda worrying that people operating vehicles work those hours! I don't that's ok at all.

Sea Filly

genericguy wrote: »

What I was saying was that if you are not delivering on the targets set for you, then you will not be in a position to argue a case for flexibility in working hours. I also detect a note of arrogance with your statement on the well-designed nature of your experiments, however you must appreciate that I can't see your work to verify this and in the event that your supervisor doesn't agree with you it will be a point of contention if you make such a request.

It's not arrogance. Any experiment that goes ahead will be well-designed and this one was designed by my post-doc supervisor, not by me. But no matter what the theory behind something and how sound it is, sometimes it just won't work and I don't see why a lack of success with an experiment justifies running someone into the ground with the hours they are working.

donkey balls

Sea Filly wrote: »

I'd have to find that to have a look. But what you quoted there would be the basic rights, I think.

Kinda worrying that people operating vehicles work those hours!

Yep a HGV driver can work some crazy hours and get paid f**k all for it there is companies paying drivers around 70/80e a day and they would be expected to work upto their legal max working day of 15 hours.
Which is less than the min wage as for the break times that's set in stone regarding dailly rest periods.

Sea Filly

genericguy wrote: »

Simply produce your work, all results from the last x number of experimental runs, valid reasons as to why you're there late and demonstrate that any dogsbody duties that you may have in terms of the upkeep of the lab are being completed and you'll be fine.

I will be bringing my work with me, but I would think working a 15 hour day would be a pretty valid reason in itself! If a person is mentally tired, their work is going to suffer as a consequence so it's detrimental to work such crazy hours.

Sea Filly

donkey balls wrote: »

Which is less than the min wage as for the break times that's set in stone regarding dailly rest periods.

My weekly pay drifts below the minimum wage at the moment.

genericguy

Sea Filly wrote: »

It's not arrogance. Any experiment that goes ahead will be well-designed and this one was designed by my post-doc supervisor, not by me. But no matter what the theory behind something and how sound it is, sometimes it just won't work and I don't see why a lack of success with an experiment justifies running someone into the ground with the hours they are working.

I absolutely agree, and they will understand this as long as you produce work showing that you're doing everything as prescribed. Relax, it's nothing they won't have heard before.

Sea Filly

genericguy wrote: »

I absolutely agree, and they will understand this as long as you produce work showing that you're doing everything as prescribed. Relax, it's nothing they won't have heard before.

Yeah, sorry for being defensive, I get what you're saying. I do indeed have results but obviously, a lot more needs to be done. And I'm definitely keeping up with my laboratory housekeeping tasks and am generally being helpful otherwise. And I do believe I am working my arse off but obviously I'm biased towards myself so of course I'd think that. :pac:

Sea Filly

Have this meeting tomorrow. My salary isn't going to change of course, as it's on my contract, and long hours need to be done at times, so I think negotating time in lieu is my best bet.