Labour ensure abortion is back on the political agenda

CCHuang

Last Sunday, the Labour party conference brought up the issue of abortion.

I mean, have they not got bigger issues to be dealing with than opening this can of worms again?

All they seem to have achieved is to alienate 84% of voters (Catholic) and big-up women such as Ivana Bakic and Sinead Ahern who have made careers for themselves out of the abortion issue.

Gurgle

That's what the conference is for: Discussing all the stuff that might be important to the country in general and their voters in particular. That doesn't mean its going to get air time in the Dàil.

CCHuang

Gurgle wrote: »

That's what the conference is for: Discussing all the stuff that might be important to the country in general and their voters in particular. That doesn't mean its going to get air time in the Dàil.

Abortion has been shown to be a divisive issue. Bringing it into the political arena in the midst of an economic crisis is a dangerous game.

Permabear

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Permabear

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Galwayguy35

Permabear wrote: »

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So why didnt they do it when they were last in Government? Maybe they fear a wipeout in the next election and want to reel in the pro-choice vote?

Permabear

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wonderfulname

CCHuang wrote: »

All they seem to have achieved is to alienate 84% of voters (Catholic) and big-up women such as Ivana Bakic and Sinead Ahern who have made careers for themselves out of the abortion issue.

Hahaha, no. These are the catholics of which 75% believe the churches teachings on sex bear no relevance? This is a very complex issue, the vast majority of people, about as many who identify as catholic, believe abortions should be legal where the woman's life is in danger, this goes against catholic teaching. You're making absolutely crazy assumptions, the majority of voters under 35 want to see abortion legalised (although under what conditions I am unsure).

This is a very important issue for a lot of people, and making silly claims like bringing it into the political arena in the midst of an economic crisis is a dangerous game make absolutely no sense, this is an issue which needs to be addressed, regardless of the outcome the status quo is in nobody's interest.

CCHuang

Permabear wrote: »

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Under Irish law, nobody has the "constitutional right" to have an abortion. The ECtHR does not "rule" - they make recommendations.

Anyway, extreme cases are rare, and when we have one of the best maternity care systems in the world and a litany of potential foster parents, there is no need for abortion.

And I don't think legislating for extreme cases makes for good law in the general case. That would lead to abortion-on-demand like in the US (where the majority of black kids are aborted before they're born) or the UK -- in the majority of cases in these countries, children die due to the lifestyle choices of their parents.

CCHuang

wonderfulname wrote: »

Hahaha, no. These are the catholics of which 75% believe the churches teachings on sex bear no relevance? This is a very complex issue, the vast majority of people, about as many who identify as catholic, believe abortions should be legal where the woman's life is in danger, this goes against catholic teaching. You're making absolutely crazy assumptions, the majority of voters under 35 want to see abortion legalised (although under what conditions I am unsure).

This is a very important issue for a lot of people, and making silly claims like bringing it into the political arena in the midst of an economic crisis is a dangerous game make absolutely no sense, this is an issue which needs to be addressed, regardless of the outcome the status quo is in nobody's interest.

According to the "Association of [liberal] Catholic Priests". Hahahahaha

I'd sooner believe census results than "figures" from that organisation.

28064212

CCHuang wrote: »

All they seem to have achieved is to alienate 84% of voters (Catholic)

Recent poll of Catholics by the ACP (Association of Catholic Priests):

1. 87% in favour of married priests
2. 77% in favour of women priests
3. 61% disagreed with the Church’s stance “that any sexual expression of love between gay couples is immoral”

The church's permissions do not reflect the 84%

And of course, the fact that we've already had two referendums on removing the right to an abortion under specific circumstances, and both times the people voted against removing it

CCHuang

28064212 wrote: »

Recent poll of Catholics by the ACP (Association of Catholic Priests):

1. 87% in favour of married priests
2. 77% in favour of women priests
3. 61% disagreed with the Church’s stance “that any sexual expression of love between gay couples is immoral”

The church's permissions do not reflect the 84%

And of course, the fact that we've already had two referendums on removing the right to an abortion under specific circumstances, and both times the people voted against removing it

ROFL!

Pro-gay/pro-priestess/pro-contraception/pro-Protestant organisation commissions a survey...

wonderfulname

CCHuang wrote: »

According to the "Association of [liberal] Catholic Priests". Hahahahaha

I'd sooner believe census results than "figures" from that organisation.

What about red C? MRBI? The royal college of surgeons? These have all returned results suggesting the people of Ireland are pro abortion to some degree. Or is everyone that disagrees with you wrong?

Permabear

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28064212

CCHuang wrote: »

Under Irish law, nobody has the "constitutional right" to have an abortion.

Bzzzzzzt! Wrong. The Supreme Court ruled on this in 1992. A woman has the right to an abortion if there is "a real and substantial risk to her life" (including the risk of suicide)

CCHuang wrote: »

The ECtHR does not "rule" - they make recommendations.

Sort of correct. Irrelevant however, since the Supreme Court has ruled

CCHuang wrote: »

a litany of potential foster parents, there is no need for abortion.

That would also mean there wouldn't be any need for long-term care for orphaned children, we can just pass them on this "litany" of foster parents

CCHuang wrote: »

ROFL!

Pro-gay/pro-priestess/pro-contraception/pro-Protestant organisation commissions a survey...

Perhaps you can post the polls which say otherwise? Any google search of the words poll and ireland in combination with any of the phrases abortion, gay marriage, female priests, married priests will return results, go find the ones you think supports your position

RayM

CCHuang wrote: »

That would lead to abortion-on-demand like in the US (where the majority of black kids are aborted before they're born)

I'm not suggesting that you're making things up, but where did you hear that?

Stark

In fairness, it would be worse if they were aborted after they were born.

meglome

CCHuang wrote: »

Last Sunday, the Labour party conference brought up the issue of abortion.

I mean, have they not got bigger issues to be dealing with than opening this can of worms again?

All they seem to have achieved is to alienate 84% of voters (Catholic) and big-up women such as Ivana Bakic and Sinead Ahern who have made careers for themselves out of the abortion issue.

I smell a rereg who is on here with the specific intention of starting the very debate they're saying they don't want.

Dubhlinner

CCHuang wrote: »

All they seem to have achieved is to alienate 84% of voters (Catholic) and big-up women such as Ivana Bakic and Sinead Ahern who have made careers for themselves out of the abortion issue.

Hmmm. I probably shouldn't bite but its no secret labour have historically been pro-abortion. They didn't rely on just 16% of the electorate pool to get into government

K-9

Posters appears to be a re-reg so I'll have to reluctantly close this one.