New To hunting Qusetion

Ziggieire

i have been shooting for years but mosty lamping for dad or crows mags with the air rifle,
got my first rifle a week ago a howa 223 useing Hornady Match 53g rounds they seem to have a hollow head.
The ammo was given to me with the rifle
The ammo seems to be passing stright trough the foxes and rabbits, i lost a fox lastnight it was a hit to the left of his chest as he was faceing me, he droped stood up and hoped away could not get a second shoot. some rabbits do the same.
What would be a good 223 fox round around 50 -60g i would like it to expend as much of its energy in the target as possible.
Thanks guys

garv123

Ziggieire wrote: »

i have been shooting for years but mosty lamping for dad or crows mags with the air rifle,
got my forst rifle a week ago a howa 223 useing Hornady vmax 53g vmax match rounds they seem to have a hollow head.
The ammo seems to be passing stright trough the foxes and rabbits, i lost a fox lastnight it was a hit to the left of his chest as he was faceing me, he droped stood up and hoped away could not get a second shoot. some rabbits do the same.
What would be a good 223 fox round around 50 -60g i would like it to expend as much of its energy in the target as possible.
Thanks guys

Have the bullets got a red tip?
Never heard of a hollow headed v-max and v-max are designed for expansion so it should be doing serious damage to foxes.

Ziggieire

nope just a hollow brass jacket ill post a pic


Ah sorry they are not vmax, i got confused with a pic i seen on sportsden,

quicko

Ziggieire wrote: »

nope just a hollow brass jacket ill post a pic


Ah sorry they are not vmax, i got confused with a pic i seen on sportsden,

Try some vmax for the foxes, they normally don't get up after them. I am not sure what twist rate your rifle is but generally 60gr vmax need 1:9, 50gr 1:12. So try something around 55gr vmax to see if your rifle will group them. There won't be much left of rabbits if you use a 223 vmax on them without a head shot. At least you will get some fox bait.

Ziggieire

quicko wrote: »

Try some vmax for the foxes, they normally don't get up after them. I am not sure what twist rate your rifle is but generally 60gr vmax need 1:9, 50gr 1:12. So try something around 55gr vmax to see if your rifle will group them. There won't be much left of rabbits if you use a 223 vmax on them without a head shot. At least you will get some fox bait.

its 1:12 i am useing 55 and 53gr i will keep the AMERICAN EAGLE 55gr FMJ for bunnies

Thanks for the help

Chesapeake

I think your going to have to re learn the basic's of shot placement (which you should have in spades from crow bashing with a pellet gun) or re check your rifle scope set up,
If your seeing rabbits or foxes hop off after being hit by any 223 round your not hitting them properly to transfer energy.

Have you checked your mounts and all screws, your scope is centered over your barrel & scope zero at the ranges you are missing them ? (not just an 1" high at 100, but actually shot a target at 200, 250 & 300 and see the difference between point of aim and point of impact, especially for any horizontal deviation)

Those hornady match rounds are perfect for the job,
but if your after a different shell pick up a box of 55gr V max to compare.

Ziggieire

Chesapeake wrote: »

I think your going to have to re learn the basic's of shot placement (which you should have in spades from crow bashing with a pellet gun) or re check your rifle scope set up,
If your seeing rabbits or foxes hop off after being hit by any 223 round your not hitting them properly to transfer energy.

Have you checked your mounts and all screws, your scope is centered over your barrel & scope zero at the ranges you are missing them ? (not just an 1" high at 100, but actually shot a target at 200, 250 & 300 and see the difference between point of aim and point of impact, especially for any horizontal deviation)

Those hornady match rounds are perfect for the job,
but if your after a different shell pick up a box of 55gr V max to compare.

my groups are fine http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78112904&postcount=56

it could be just excitment and things look a lot different at night,
seen a fox up a green field friday night in the light he looked 400m away next day it was more like 150m i put the shot over his head,

i have a ballistic mildot http://www.ada.ru/guns/ballistic/Burris/BallisticMilDot/burris_ballistic_mildot.gif
i have to lern to mill the size of a fox to get the range at night i think thats has a lot to do with it

It wasn't me!

Personally I'd have a policy of never shooting at any range I couldn't hold on the animal itself at night. For foxes and a .223 or similar, that should be about 250 yards, which is plenty far out. Like you say, things can look very different at night. If I thought it were a range I would have to hold over, wouldn't be taking the shot.

Ziggieire

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Personally I'd have a policy of never shooting at any range I couldn't hold on the animal itself at night. For foxes and a .223 or similar, that should be about 250 yards, which is plenty far out. Like you say, things can look very different at night. If I thought it were a range I would have to hold over, wouldn't be taking the shot.

True. it was also my virgin fox shot,
did not pass my driving test first time either

lee70

Ziggieire wrote: »

nope just a hollow brass jacket ill post a pic


Ah sorry they are not vmax, i got confused with a pic i seen on sportsden,

I also have a Howa. She loves to eat hornady 55gr soft points.
There a bit hard for some lads to get their hands on. They can be got over in Drangan €40 for 50 so if your ever out this way there worth a buy. If you use FMJ they'll pass straght through charlie and he'll just keep running keep them for bunnies.


Well done on your first fox.

Ziggieire

lee70 wrote: »

I also have a Howa. She loves to eat hornady 55gr soft points.
There a bit hard for some lads to get their hands on. They can be got over in Drangan €40 for 50 so if your ever out this way there worth a buy. If you use FMJ they'll pass straght through charlie and he'll just keep running keep them for bunnies.
Well done on your first fox.

i just ordered a box of 55gr vmax ill give them a go, ill keep a look out for those

Chesapeake

Ziggieire wrote: »

my groups are fine http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78112904&postcount=56

it could be just excitment and things look a lot different at night,
seen a fox up a green field friday night in the light he looked 400m away next day it was more like 150m i put the shot over his head,

i have a ballistic mildot http://www.ada.ru/guns/ballistic/Burris/BallisticMilDot/burris_ballistic_mildot.gif
i have to lern to mill the size of a fox to get the range at night i think thats has a lot to do with it

Thats very odd indeed, you should be flattening them with those groups.
But thats a hell of a drop on 100 to 200 meter target if they are 1" squares.
Get it zeroed spot on @ 200, and you'll be laughing from 25 - 250.
400 is a long shot in the day........not recommended at night.
Don't bother trying to calcuate size, range at night with mil dots - (if you shoot at air, you'll hit air) - set your scope to a mag your happy with and leave it alone..............see a fox shoot him - if he's too small he's too far away, so call him in.

It wasn't me!

Chesapeake wrote: »

Don't bother trying to calcuate size, range at night with mil dots - (if you shoot at air, you'll hit air) - set your scope to a mag your happy with and leave it alone..............see a fox shoot him - if he's too small he's too far away, so call him in.

Agreed entirely with this bit. Set the scope around 5x or 6x as a general purpose magnification and just point and shoot. If it's too far away for that sort of shooting, get closer.

lee70

Ziggieire wrote: »

i just ordered a box of 55gr vmax ill give them a go, ill keep a look out for those

You won't go wrong with the v-max. Just remember a 1in12 twist tends to not like a heavy round so I'd stick to a 55gr round.
Any chance of a pic of your new rifle I'd like to see if its the same as mine.

kildare.17hmr

My cz is 1 in 12 twist and it loves the 40gr vmax which id recomend trying, they are very flat. Also use the 55gr hornady softpoints and find them great on foxes.

Them hollowpoints are not great for charlie, not enough body to expand and do the damage

lee70

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

My cz is 1 in 12 twist and it loves the 40gr vmax which id recomend trying, they are very flat. Also use the 55gr hornady softpoints and find them great on foxes.

Them hollowpoints are not great for charlie, not enough body to expand and do the damage

Well done you managed finally got your hands on them SP's. Did you get them locally What kind of price where they?

Ziggieire

lee70 wrote: »

You won't go wrong with the v-max. Just remember a 1in12 twist tends to not like a heavy round so I'd stick to a 55gr round.
Any chance of a pic of your new rifle I'd like to see if its the same as mine.

its a crappy pic ill have to use somethign other than a phone

kildare.17hmr

lee70 wrote: »

Well done you managed finally got your hands on them SP's. Did you get them locally What kind of price where they?

haha i know i was searchin everywhere but ended up takin a spin to drangan from kildare one saturday and got 2 boxes! Have 7 left so need to get another box, might get him to post them

garv123

Ziggieire wrote: »

its 1:12 i am useing 55 and 53gr i will keep the AMERICAN EAGLE 55gr FMJ for bunnies

Thanks for the help

There's your problem right there.

FMJ should not be used on any live quarry.
All it does is pass through without any expansion doing very little damage to the vitals.

lee70

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

haha i know i was searchin everywhere but ended up takin a spin to drangan from kildare one saturday and got 2 boxes! Have 7 left so need to get another box, might get him to post them

Your mad you are haha. Thats some spin all right next time your over this way pop in for some tea. I think i've a few bunny bangers in the freezer from last summer we'll fry them up.

lee70

Ziggieire wrote: »

its a crappy pic ill have to use somethign other than a phone

Nice finish on her. Here's mine and before anyone says you still haven't fixed that bloody table its the same pic from before. lol

Ziggieire

just back got only one rabbit hes in salt watter for tomorrow now, there was a ferret running around the rabbit holes,

Ziggieire

lee70 wrote: »

Nice finish on her. Here's mine and before anyome says you still haven't fixed that bloody table its the same pic from before. lol

Very nice that looks better for walking than mine the lam stock is very heavy

lee70

Ziggieire wrote: »

Very nice that looks better for walking than mine the lam stock is very heavy

you'd be surprised mine is a bit on the heavy side too compared to the cz anyway. Was out tonight myself managed to call in a fox to about 50yds had the crosshair on its bib squeezed a round off and totally missed

sikastag

Ziggieire wrote: »

just back got only one rabbit hes in salt watter for tomorrow now, there was a ferret running around the rabbit holes,

Steer clear of FMJ rounds for foxes. Not enough expansion.
You said your using 'match' rounds. Match are target rounds. Designed for paper etc, not live quarry.
You may allready know all this. Some manufacturers put a description of suitable quarry on the packaging of
their hunting rounds - (ie) suitable for big, thick skinned game and so on.

Was this your ferret running around or was it wild? Could you describe it, colour, size etc?

Ziggieire

sikastag wrote: »

Was this your ferret running around or was it wild? Could you describe it, colour, size etc?

we were the only people there,
he was mostly white with speckles sat in a rabbit hole looking around like a meerkat, goes down one hole came up another
did not ask him about car insurance

Ghost.

Im not sure but I think I read some where that the hollow point on the match rounds is not the same as on hunting hollow points. I think on match rounds its purely for areo dynamics and ballistics, not to aid with expansion like the hollow point on a hunting round. The match rounds are a much more solid bullet I think. I could be wrong.

tac foley

Ghost. wrote: »

Im not sure but I think I read some where that the hollow point on the match rounds is not the same as on hunting hollow points. I think on match rounds its purely for areo dynamics and ballistics, not to aid with expansion like the hollow point on a hunting round. The match rounds are a much more solid bullet I think. I could be wrong.

Sir - you are 100% correct in all you have written. In many countries the use of FMJ bullets on live game is not only discouraged, but illegal.

tac

Ziggieire

Thanks for all the feedback and help guys
i have ordered some v-max 55gr will test them out wed night

Thanks again

kildare.17hmr

Ziggieire wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback and help guys
i have ordered some v-max 55gr will test them out wed night

Thanks again

Foxes will be dead before they hit the ground for ya now lad and clean kills will make it more enjoyable too.

Make sure to check your zero with the new rounds before going for a fox as it could be different!

sikastag

Ziggieire wrote: »

we were the only people there,
he was mostly white with speckles sat in a rabbit hole looking around like a meerkat, goes down one hole came up another
did not ask him about car insurance

Did ya at least get his reg???

Just asking as i thought it may have been stoat.

Goodluck with your foxes!