Natural Bodybuilding within Ireland

deckydee2

Greetings,

I am looking for any information that someone can give me as regards Natural Bodybuilding within Ireland. I have looked around the web with little success.

One link of interest is this, but again very little information. - http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Natural-Comps-in-Ireland-m1004027.aspx

I see there is a few mentions of IABO and IANB but I cannot find anything concrete.

I found a thread on this website as I have the quote below but I cant seem to find anything else. Thanks in advance if you can help



Quote from this other thread:

To follow is a brief history on Natural Bodybuilding within Ireland. Mr. Bob Stewart founded an organisation called the Irish Association of Natural Bodybuilders in 1991. The IANB held it’s first national championships in 1992. Mr. Stewart is semi-retired from the fitness industry and in October of this year (1999) he offered the running of the organisation to myself. I changed the name from IANB to IABO and held the first National Championships under the new name in Liberty Hall on the 20th of November. The championship was a success and we had some decent press coverage of the event. There was a ¼ page article in the “city edition” of the Sunday Independent (21st November) and ¾ page article in the Sports section of the Irish Times (22nd November – page 6).

We are an organisation that promotes “natural” bodybuilding – this means that we adhere to the IOC guidelines for doping in sport and the list of illegal/banned substances is the same as those listed by the IOC’s medical commission. Bodybuilding is an exhibition sport in the 2004 Olympics in Athens. We as an organisation are working towards promoting this sport within Ireland and strongly believe that there are Natural Bodybuilders in Ireland who would/could be of a suitable international standard to warrant selection for such an event.

---

Ok so BB never made it to the olympics and never will. The IFBB is the organisation putting bb forward and Markus or Ronnie could enter if they desired.

As for natural comps and I do know!, the % of actual naturals competing is very low. Out of 8 shows and 4 years where I ran shows there are only 2 comps 100% natural, 2 or 3 more are questionable and the rest all juiced despite telling you they did not. The reason some are smaller etc. etc. is simply they are not determined enough (as we established already most 'naturals' juice), don't train or diet hard enough. Steroids are not magic, most people fcuk up their courses, don't eat adequately or train hard enough and in a lot of cases are not mentally or physically ready for taking steroids in the first place.

Bob Stewart owns/owned World Gym. Nice guy.

Hanley

Eamonn Manning - beast.

deckydee2

Im just going to post anything on can find with regards Bodybuilding in Ireland.

http://irishbodybuilders.myfreeforum.org/ - A forum dedicated to BB in Ireland. Very good!

http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/programmes/all-programmes/moncrieff/henry-mckean-attended-the-nabba-mr-universe-ireland/

Interesting stuff on this link

DL Saint

I discovered a new natural bodybuilding federation through social network. They are called the Natural Bodybuilding Federation of Ireland. They are hosting a competition in Cork in October which will be a Qualifier for the UIBBN Worlds in Novemeber. I thought this may interest a few people. Also try and spread the word of this in order to encourage more people to compete in natural bodybuilding comps.

http://www.facebook.com/NaturalBodybuidingFederationOfIreland?fref=ts

harvester of sorrow

http://www.irishmuscle.ie

Might be worth a look.....

DL Saint

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

http://www.irishmuscle.ie

Might be worth a look.....

I would spread the word on there, but that forum is juiced out of it's gills

harvester of sorrow

DL Saint wrote: »

I would spread the word on there, but that forum is juiced out of it's gills

Really?
I cant speak for them all but I know one of the lads who has a training video on that website,and he's 100% natural.....,quiet a few of them are i reckon.....

DL Saint

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

Really?
I cant speak for them all but I know one of the lads who has a training video on that website,and he's 100% natural.....,quiet a few of them are i reckon.....

I am curious as to what would make you think this? The vast majority of Irish Bodybuilders are enhanced. The only ones I could see who may not are a few of the juniors and the figure girls. It is Very difficult to win an untested bodybuilding competition as a natural...

Hanley

DL Saint wrote: »

I am curious as to what would make you think this? The vast majority of Irish Bodybuilders are enhanced. The only ones I could see who may not are a few of the juniors and the figure girls. It is Very difficult to win an untested bodybuilding competition as a natural...

Only division a natural guy wins in an untested comp is the same one he comes last in.

harvester of sorrow

DL Saint wrote: »

I am curious as to what would make you think this? The vast majority of Irish Bodybuilders are enhanced. The only ones I could see who may not are a few of the juniors and the figure girls. It is Very difficult to win an untested bodybuilding competition as a natural...

Maybe so.......,all i am basing my comment on is the 1 guy i know who is on that site and has won a few comps,he is 100% natural,he will be heading into the masters class in the next year or two.I think you are under estimating the time and dedication these guys put into training and eating.....,any time i call to this guys house he's in the kitchen eating or preparing meals.If he's not in the gym,he's in the kitchen.
I used to train in the same gym as this guy,and its the same gym where another 1 or 2 lads form that site train,and i reckon these guys are natural also........dont get me wrong there are guys who train there that are "enhanced" also,no doubt about it,but there are also a few who go the hard road or the extra mile natural.
The amount of dedication and discipline these guys(natural) have is extraordinary.

DL Saint

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

Maybe so.......,all i am basing my comment on is the 1 guy i know who is on that site and has won a few comps,he is 100% natural,he will be heading into the masters class in the next year or two.I think you are under estimating the time and dedication these guys put into training and eating.....,any time i call to this guys house he's in the kitchen eating or preparing meals.If he's not in the gym,he's in the kitchen.
I used to train in the same gym as this guy,and its the same gym where another 1 or 2 lads form that site train,and i reckon these guys are natural also........dont get me wrong there are guys who train there that are "enhanced" also,no doubt about it,but there are also a few who go the hard road or the extra mile natural.
The amount of dedication and discipline these guys(natural) have is extraordinary.

I know exactly the amount of time and dedication that these guys put into it. It's a full time job. I am good friends with a guy who won the NI Juniors in the past and yes, he used. I think you are naive if you think these guys don't use. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but it is definitely rampant in bodybuilding. Just because someone tells you they are natural, doesn't make it so. They lie because they average person will look down on them for using and it looks bad on their image. Sure even Ronnie Coleman claimed he was natural :rolleyes: If your friend has done well in the untested comps as a natural in Ireland, then he should compete in the natural comps with drug testing and polygraph tests...:rolleyes:

john_cappa

You do realise those that are not natural have to all the training and food prep aswell lol

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Guys who use, have to train as hard as those that dont, they just win the competitions thats the difference. They all have good genetics, train like animals, eat the right food etc. Those that enter natural competition probably dont go around the gym with needles still in their arses or go talking about it with other fellas in the gym. Enhancements are not radioactive spider bites where you wake up massive and ripped without putting in the effort.

harvester of sorrow

DL Saint wrote: »

I know exactly the amount of time and dedication that these guys put into it. It's a full time job. I am good friends with a guy who won the NI Juniors in the past and yes, he used. I think you are naive if you think these guys don't use. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but it is definitely rampant in bodybuilding. Just because someone tells you they are natural, doesn't make it so. They lie because they average person will look down on them for using and it looks bad on their image. Sure even Ronnie Coleman claimed he was natural :rolleyes: If your friend has done well in the untested comps as a natural in Ireland, then he should compete in the natural comps with drug testing and polygraph tests...:rolleyes:

Wasn't he natural:pac::pac:
I know what your saying,but there is abig difference between a 80/85kg contest ready bb and a 115 kg contest ready bb(ala Ronnie)Which one is more likely to be natural?
Im not completely naive as to the workings of competitive bb,there are guys who use and there are guys who dont...like in any sport.

DL Saint

Clearly you have your nice and idealistic view of what is possible for a 100% natural bodybuilder to achieve. I have mine based on personal experience and knowing people in the industry as well as knowing what enhanced and non-enhanced bodybuilders look like. I think we should leave it there and let the thread get back on topic.

So with that being said I encourage anyone who has ever thought about wanting to get on stage at some point in their life to train towards the NBFI comp in October. There really is nothing like training and dieting for a competition and seeing results.

harvester of sorrow

DL Saint wrote: »

Clearly you have your nice and idealistic view of what is possible as a 100% natural bodybuilder to achieve. I have mine based on personal experience and knowing people in the industry as well as knowing what enhanced and non-enhanced bodybuilders look like. I think we should leave it there and let the thread get back on topic.

So with that being said I encourage anyone who has ever thought about wanting to get on stage at some point in their life to train towards the NBFI comp in October. There really is nothing like training and dieting for a competition and seeing results.

Yep i do,like you,from knowing people in the indusrty, and observing those close to my family;).
As i stated in my previus post it is fairly obvious to see the differences between natural and assisted bb's.
Sucsess in bb can come naturally aswell as assisted...altough i think we can agree not the same heights of sucsess.
You asked for information on natural bb in ireland,i gave you the name of a website on bb in ireland..if you post there and ask about natural bb im sure some one will help you out.

DL Saint

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

Yep i do,like you,from knowing people in the indusrty, and observing those close to my family;).
As i stated in my previus post it is fairly obvious to see the differences between natural and assisted bb's.
Sucsess in bb can come naturally aswell as assisted...altough i think we can agree not the same heights of sucsess.
You asked for information on natural bb in ireland,i gave you the name of a website on bb in ireland..if you post there and ask about natural bb im sure some one will help you out.

Name one successful natural bodybuilder?

I didn't actually. I'm not the OP. I was simply spreading the word on an organisation that is currently being established

harvester of sorrow

My bad.
Layne Norton.

DL Saint

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

My bad.
Layne Norton.

No problem

If Bio-Layne is truly 100% natural he is a freak of nature. Yes he is a natural pro but drug tests can be beaten if someone knows what they are doing, wouldn't be hard for someone with a phd in biochemistry to beat it, that's for sure...

Gummy Panda

DL Saint wrote: »

Name one successful natural bodybuilder?

I didn't actually. I'm not the OP. I was simply spreading the word on an organisation that is currently being established

Josh Hyaduck?

DL Saint

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Josh Hyaduck?

Never heard of him tbh. :cool:

jive

Just because someone claims to be natural doesn't make them natural. It's easy for someone like Layne Norton or Josh Hyaduck to claim to be natural (I'm not saying if they're using or not I don't care) and get fame from it without actually having to attempt to become the size of the top pros. If I wanted to make a living off bodybuilding then I too would claim to be natural but I would actually have to be using to get to the size of those natural bodybuilders. Sure, their training may be great and they may be dedicated but so are many, many, many other people. Do they these 'elite' natural bodybuilders have a genetic predisposition to putting on a lot more muscle than an average athlete? Maybe, but colour me skeptical. Drug testing is inadequate in all sports and is hilariously inadequate in natural bodybuilding given how rampant drug use is in the sport.

Brian?

Rightio, can we try this again? I've deleted completely OT posts, insulting posts and inaccurate nonsense posts. There have been no cards handed out this time. If there is any repeat there will be cards/bans.

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Gi joe!

jive wrote: »

Just because someone claims to be natural doesn't make them natural. It's easy for someone like Layne Norton or Josh Hyaduck to claim to be natural (I'm not saying if they're using or not I don't care) and get fame from it without actually having to attempt to become the size of the top pros. If I wanted to make a living off bodybuilding then I too would claim to be natural but I would actually have to be using to get to the size of those natural bodybuilders. Sure, their training may be great and they may be dedicated but so are many, many, many other people. Do they these 'elite' natural bodybuilders have a genetic predisposition to putting on a lot more muscle than an average athlete? Maybe, but colour me skeptical. Drug testing is inadequate in all sports and is hilariously inadequate in natural bodybuilding given how rampant drug use is in the sport.

You make some very good points, but you have to keep in mind just how little these guys weigh when they're on stage.

Look up Jim Cordova, guy looks like a god when in contest condition, but would weigh in the 160's at around 5 foot 7, 5 foot 8. Hardly the size of someone who uses steroids.

Layne Norton would weigh a fair bit more, but he has a much bigger frame and actually imo looks 'smaller' than Cordova, if you were to put two pictures of them together. Its not about sheer amount of muscle mass for these guys, proportions, muscle belly lengths and joint size all go into to creating these kinds of physiques.

Bodybuilding is after all an illusion, and natural bodybuilding is even more so. The key variable that makes these guys look so much bigger is ironically their condition. The lower your body fat the drastically bigger you look, even though you are technically smaller.

One situation where I would call steroids would be on guys who are in ripped condition all year round while claiming to be natural, Gregg Plitt being a prime example. I'd imagine the body would fight back in terms of muscle loss and overtraining if you're below 5% body fat for an extended period of time while being natural.

Not taking anything away from guys like these if they're not competing in natural shows, their physique is how they make a living after all. They still have to eat right and work their asses off in the gym(watching Plitt's videos shows he certainly does!)

Sorry for the monologue, this topic is fascinating!

harvester of sorrow

Exactly bodybuilders look alot bigger than they are, the few naturals that i know look like an average joe soap with clothes on,but when you see them working out with a pair of shorts with a vest they look huge,but they are still only 80-85 kg.Which is certainly not Olympia standard,and this is where the difference lies, the pro's who claim not to use,but compete at 100+kg with low single digit bodyfat....unachievable without some sort of assistance.

DL Saint

Okay I take your points on board about the illusion of looking massive while actually being relatively light in weight. However I want you to consider this. Say you are a pro natural bodybuilder. You make most of your income off photoshoots, supplement sponsorship, website activity and youtube hits. Your entire career is essentially about looking the best that you can. Now you can take this stuff that will make your muscles look great (fuller and more dense) and you can get away with taking it by beating a test, that isn't hard to beat. Why would you not take it? The amount you would be taking would not likely be detrimental to your health. So taking this would just make it easier for you and would mean that it would be a lot less likely for you to lose your 'shape'. If I was in their shoes I know what I would do anyway....

Gi joe!

DL Saint wrote: »

Okay I take your points on board about the illusion of looking massive while actually being relatively light in weight. However I want you to consider this. Say you are a pro natural bodybuilder. You make most of your income off photoshoots, supplement sponsorship, website activity and youtube hits. Your entire career is essentially about looking the best that you can. Now you can take this stuff that will make your muscles look great (fuller and more dense) and you can get away with taking it by beating a test, that isn't hard to beat. Why would you not take it? The amount you would be taking would not likely be detrimental to your health. So taking this would just make it easier for you and would mean that it would be a lot less likely for you to lose your 'shape'. If I was in their shoes I know what I would do anyway....

AFAIK most pro natural bodybuilders don't make an income they can comfortably live on through things you have mentioned; many of them are personal trainers/own gyms/ have 'real' jobs. Fact of the matter is that there is very little money in natural bodybuilding, hell there's not even that much to make in untested bodybuilding past the top 20 or so guys.

It comes down to the integrity of the person competing I think. We'll really never know ourselves. Your right, it can be easy to 'cheat' the system so to speak; taking hormones months before your actually tested when it won't show up on the day. Skip La Cour and Jeff Willet have had a lot of questions raised with regards to supposed pro-hormone use early in their career.

Since they won't show up now on a drug test, whether these guys indeed used these or not, they will still pass these tests and be seen as 'natural' regardless.

It can seem pretty unfair but that's just the way it is.

DL Saint

Gi joe! wrote: »

AFAIK most pro natural bodybuilders don't make an income they can comfortably live on through things you have mentioned; many of them are personal trainers/own gyms/ have 'real' jobs. Fact of the matter is that there is very little money in natural bodybuilding, hell there's not even that much to make in untested bodybuilding past the top 20 or so guys.

It comes down to the integrity of the person competing I think. We'll really never know ourselves. Your right, it can be easy to 'cheat' the system so to speak; taking hormones months before your actually tested when it won't show up on the day. Skip La Cour and Jeff Willet have had a lot of questions raised with regards to supposed pro-hormone use early in their career.

Since they won't show up now on a drug test, whether these guys indeed used these or not, they will still pass these tests and be seen as 'natural' regardless.

It can seem pretty unfair but that's just the way it is.

I disagree with this. Take Rob Riches for example. He makes most of his money from photoshoots, supplement promotion, his website and his youtube. Greg Plitt is much the same as is Ulysses Jr. etc. There is quite a bit of income to be made from these things believe it or not.

I agree with your point on the untested bodybuilders. In fact I would go so far as to say there are only 10 or so who can live off it. This is down to a number of reasons such as the lack of public interest IN the sport, not to mention the cost of all the drugs they are taking is huge.

With regards to Jeff Willet I know he has admitted to taking pro-hormones in the past but he has definitely taken more. You simply can't become an ifbb pro naturally, it just doesn't happen.

harvester of sorrow

DL Saint wrote: »

Okay I take your points on board about the illusion of looking massive while actually being relatively light in weight. However I want you to consider this. Say you are a pro natural bodybuilder. You make most of your income off photoshoots, supplement sponsorship, website activity and youtube hits. Your entire career is essentially about looking the best that you can. Now you can take this stuff that will make your muscles look great (fuller and more dense) and you can get away with taking it by beating a test, that isn't hard to beat. Why would you not take it? The amount you would be taking would not likely be detrimental to your health. So taking this would just make it easier for you and would mean that it would be a lot less likely for you to lose your 'shape'. If I was in their shoes I know what I would do anyway....

For financial gain......of course,not many wouldnt,but the guys i am talking about make nothing from it,thats not to take away from your argument.....as i said if i was a pro natty bb i would try milk it for what it was worth,but at the same time these pro's have to realise that there is a whole lot to loose if found out(Lance Armstrong?),from potential health issues to loss of sponsorship,magazine photo shoots,workout dvd's,pt,etc so if one was to weigh up the pro's v cons would it really be worth it in the long run?

DL Saint

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

For financial gain......of course,not many wouldnt,but the guys i am talking about make nothing from it,thats not to take away from your argument.....as i said if i was a pro natty bb i would try milk it for what it was worth,but at the same time these pro's have to realise that there is a whole lot to loose if found out(Lance Armstrong?),from potential health issues to loss of sponsorship,magazine photo shoots,workout dvd's,pt,etc so if one was to weigh up the pro's v cons would it really be worth it in the long run?

Ah well Lance was different. He was running a drug ring for years and basking in his own 'superiority'. These pro bodybuilders know what they are doing, they know how the system works and they know how to beat it. Yes they could lose all that, but say they were to get caught by the federation after going up through the ranks and achieving their pro-card status. How does that look on the fed? Letting this person slip through for so long. The feds would have an awful lot to lose as well so I don't think they would police it too much. I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it anyway.

Also you can bet Layne Norton makes a lot of money off it. From selling his programs to working for bb.com. It has brought him in lots of cash.

jive

Gi joe! wrote: »

You make some very good points, but you have to keep in mind just how little these guys weigh when they're on stage.

Look up Jim Cordova, guy looks like a god when in contest condition, but would weigh in the 160's at around 5 foot 7, 5 foot 8. Hardly the size of someone who uses steroids.

You make fair points but actually trying to get into contest condition without looking like a depleted rat is extremely difficult. It's easy to say they only weigh that amount but the reality is that actually achieving that naturally is nigh on impossible.

One of the most significant points that sits in my mind is that there are obviously a whole lot of people using steroids and would like to carve a career in fitness but these 'natural' athletes just happen to be superior to them? Personally, I don't buy it but then again I am a cynical fúcker.

Gi joe! wrote: »

AFAIK most pro natural bodybuilders don't make an income they can comfortably live on through things you have mentioned; many of them are personal trainers/own gyms/ have 'real' jobs. Fact of the matter is that there is very little money in natural bodybuilding, hell there's not even that much to make in untested bodybuilding past the top 20 or so guys.

As DL Saint said, they make far more money out of sponsorship deals, DVDs, training people, selling meal plans etc. The idea is to get a body desirable enough that you can essentially market yourself as knowledgeable (even if you're not, many personal trainers say that your body is your business card) in the field. Obviously obtaining that body is fast tracked by using drugs. A lot of people market themselves this way including many mentioned in this thread such as Layne Norton (to be fair he has a PhD which is somewhat relevant but if he looked like shít who would want his advice?) & Josh Hyaduck. It's easy money for many of them too who will simply have pre-made meal plans and training plans and e-mail them out for €60 or whatever.

The beauty of 'online' personal training is that you can just churn out a few emails at essentially no cost to yourself and there's little work involved. Obviously stating that you are natural means that a greater amount of the market are likely to buy off you than someone who uses drugs because the vast majority of people won't want to take drugs (not to mention the legality issues of openly saying you're using illegally obtained drugs). If he can get that body naturally then so can I, I just need to train and eat like him... right??!

Gi joe!

jive wrote: »

You make fair points but actually trying to get into contest condition without looking like a depleted rat is extremely difficult. It's easy to say they only weigh that amount but the reality is that actually achieving that naturally is nigh on impossible.

One of the most significant points that sits in my mind is that there are obviously a whole lot of people using steroids and would like to carve a career in fitness but these 'natural' athletes just happen to be superior to them? Personally, I don't buy it but then again I am a cynical fúcker.

We'd have to agree to disagree here. Getting into true contest shape, while VERY difficult for a natural trainer, is imo still well within reach if they really nail their diet and recovery from training. Its not so much losing the bodyfat thats the problem, its retaining the precious muscle mass that the body is dying to get rid of when your dieting for that long.

As for the amount of people on steroids with crappy results, this phenomenon only reinforces my viewpoint towards these drugs. These people haven't put the work into learning how to train hard, eating correctly to improve their body composition and recovering optimally. Far too many people, including those you mentioned looking to break into this industry, see these drugs as a miracle pill that will do all the work for them.

Those who are natural and have outstanding physiques have spent years of blood sweat and tears getting to the shape they are now, surpassing those assisted schmoes who have no idea what they're doing on the way. I guess the core problem of this issue is drawing the line at deciding whos natural and who isn't, which I think is extremely hard to do.

As DL Saint said, they make far more money out of sponsorship deals, DVDs, training people, selling meal plans etc. The idea is to get a body desirable enough that you can essentially market yourself as knowledgeable (even if you're not, many personal trainers say that your body is your business card) in the field. Obviously obtaining that body is fast tracked by using drugs. A lot of people market themselves this way including many mentioned in this thread such as Layne Norton (to be fair he has a PhD which is somewhat relevant but if he looked like shít who would want his advice?) & Josh Hyaduck. It's easy money for many of them too who will simply have pre-made meal plans and training plans and e-mail them out for €60 or whatever.

The beauty of 'online' personal training is that you can just churn out a few emails at essentially no cost to yourself and there's little work involved. Obviously stating that you are natural means that a greater amount of the market are likely to buy off you than someone who uses drugs because the vast majority of people won't want to take drugs (not to mention the legality issues of openly saying you're using illegally obtained drugs). If he can get that body naturally then so can I, I just need to train and eat like him... right??!

I don't have much in-depth knowledge of the fitness industry, although what little I've experience first hand makes me want to run the other way. Everything seems to be a race to the bottom to get as much money as possible: shortcuts, fad programs and diets, basically anything that trys to get away from the actual hard work of being fit and healthy.

But hey, the average person laps this crap up, so if it makes money, why change it!

brownej

Gi joe! wrote: »

I don't have much in-depth knowledge of the fitness industry, although what little I've experience first hand makes me want to run the other way. Everything seems to be a race to the bottom to get as much money as possible: shortcuts, fad programs and diets, basically anything that trys to get away from the actual hard work of being fit and healthy.

But hey, the average person laps this crap up, so if it makes money, why change it!

You mean the "5 minute Abs" program doesn't work?