Laying Horses

andrewg1981

Apologies for this question as it is probably straightforward but not to someone such as myself who has only moved away from the bookies to online betting in the last few months. Checked the thread history but cannot find something similar or I am missing it.

Laying horses interests me so I want to make sure I have the following correct before I start delving into it so I'll use an example from a horse today.

Act of Kalansi was 20/1 earlier on Bet 365. If I had stuck 50 euro to win on him I would have had the possibility to win 1000€.
Now on the Betfair exchanges he was 30 so if I had stuck 25 on him to lose there and he had win I would have had liability of 750€.
Does this mean if he had win taking both accounts into place I would have had 250€ profit and if had lost I would have broke even?

Sorry for what is no doubt a silly question but like I said have spent the last 4/5 years betting in bookies and only really started online betting in the past few months so a little unsure of a few things.

Cheers for any information you can shed.

cichlid child

I do not bet/lay on line but as far as i am aware you have to pay commission when you win a bet/lay

Morgans

Sounds right to me. But you do have to pay commission on your winnings - 5% usually.

http://help.betfair.com/contents/itemId/i65767827/index.en.html


You could alternatively have had 12 euro at 20/1 to win the 250 approx.

Huntley

No. You would be down €25 if the horse loses.

andrewg1981

Huntley wrote: »

No. You would be down €25 if the horse loses.

Cheers to all for replies but how exactly Huntley? Like I said new to online betting and especially laying horses so the more info the better. I assumed if I layed a horse for 25€ and it lost I would get the 25€ stake and another 25€ back (I know the commission would be taken out).

So that would have been circa 50€ back to cancel out the stake I lost no??

That's just my read on it but like I said no expert so cheers for beginning to shed some light on it.

Yeah I know what you mean Morgans did not have him backed was just using him as an example to get more info on this subject. Thanks.

EDIT: Was just on Betfair there and putting in some scenarios for last 10 minutes. Figured it out Huntley cheers! Thanks for the replies lads.

iMuse

When backing and laying, you want to back at a higher price and lay at a lower price. If you back a Horse €50 at 30/1 but just before the race sets off the same horse is available to lay at 20/1 you could lock in a profit of around €22 so if the horse wins or loses you still win €22. The back/Lay calculator here is useful for working out how much to stake and how much profit you can lock in.

AngryBollix

andrewg1981 wrote: »

Apologies for this question as it is probably straightforward but not to someone such as myself who has only moved away from the bookies to online betting in the last few months. Checked the thread history but cannot find something similar or I am missing it.

Laying horses interests me so I want to make sure I have the following correct before I start delving into it so I'll use an example from a horse today.

Act of Kalansi was 20/1 earlier on Bet 365. If I had stuck 50 euro to win on him I would have had the possibility to win 1000€.
Now on the Betfair exchanges he was 30 so if I had stuck 25 on him to lose there and he had win I would have had liability of 750€.
Does this mean if he had win taking both accounts into place I would have had 250€ profit and if had lost I would have broke even?

Sorry for what is no doubt a silly question but like I said have spent the last 4/5 years betting in bookies and only really started online betting in the past few months so a little unsure of a few things.

Cheers for any information you can shed.

This is my understanding of it.

Laying a horse is the exact opposite of backing.

In essence you become the bookmaker. When laying a horse you need to cover the liability in order to win the relevant stake amount (minus whatever commissions are charged).

In the example you give above.

If the horse wins the race.

You will collect €1020 from Bet 365. (€50 * € 20 = €1000 plus your 20 euro stake returned)

Assuming that the 30\1 that you mention was available on betfair was the lay amount you would have needed to have €750 on your account to cover the bet of the person who opposed you (€30 * € 25).

€1000 - € 750 = € 250

In this particular scenario with the odds you've provided if the horse was beaten you lose you stake with Bet 365 of €20 but gain your opponents stake of €25 with Betfair giving you a € 5 profit (Less commission of course)

AngryBollix

iMuse wrote: »

When backing and laying, you want to back at a higher price and lay at a lower price. If you back a Horse €50 at 30/1 but just before the race sets off the same horse is available to lay at 20/1 you could lock in a profit of around €22 so if the horse wins or loses you still win €22. The back/Lay calculator here is useful for working out how much to stake and how much profit you can lock in.

Thats it really. This is how to guarantee a profit.

For example I'm backing sunnyhillyboy for the grand national tomorrow.

I put €20 on him at 20\1 with boylesports. This guarantees a payout of €420.

At the moment on betfair his lay odds are 17\1. Given a €24 stake by my opponent this would mean I'd have to pay out a total of €408

€ 420 - € 408 guarantees a modest profit of € 12. (This will reduce after commission)


Assuming the horse loses.


I'll gain the €24 stake on Betfair (Less commission meaning somewhere between €22.50 and €23) but will lose the £20 on Boylesports.

A very very modest profit to put it mildly

Unless you've got a very substantial sum to play around with it's probaby as well to take one side and say your prayers.

Huntley

andrewg1981 wrote: »

Cheers to all for replies but how exactly Huntley? Like I said new to online betting and especially laying horses so the more info the better. I assumed if I layed a horse for 25€ and it lost I would get the 25€ stake and another 25€ back (I know the commission would be taken out).

So that would have been circa 50€ back to cancel out the stake I lost no??

That's just my read on it but like I said no expert so cheers for beginning to shed some light on it.

Yeah I know what you mean Morgans did not have him backed was just using him as an example to get more info on this subject. Thanks.

EDIT: Was just on Betfair there and putting in some scenarios for last 10 minutes. Figured it out Huntley cheers! Thanks for the replies lads.

You have it grasped but I'll put some clarity on it anyway.

You place €50 on to win.
You also lay for €25.

If the horse loses, you win a profit of €25 that you layed.

However, you will also lose your win stake of €50. That gives a net loss of €25.