Parents: Digital Switch over

whowantstwoknow

Hi All,

Not sure which forum was best as this query would span many of them, but thought this was the most appropriate.

Basically, the parents currently get UPC via MMDS in a rural location. Its just a standard monthly package with no premium channels.

So rather than having a recurring charge for what they use they would be better off taking a once off charge on investing in their own equipment.

Their current collection of TVs wouldnt have any decoders embedded. They have:

1) TV in the living room: This has the UPC decoder etc
2) Portable TV in the Kitchen: Receives Terrestrial analogue signals
3) Portable TV/DVD in a bedroom: Receives Terrestrial analogue signals and is used by the grandkids for DVDs on sleepovers :-)

My dad does like his sport and uses the setenta and Sky sport news, but He'll just have to forget about these if they drop UPC.

My Mum would like the TV in the Kitchen & Living room to have the Terrestrial & UK channels. She plans to upgrade these two TVs even though if they get a combo-box for each room if wouldnt be necessary. But she wont be dissuade from her shinny new purchases so take that as a given.

Am I right in thinking that these combo-boxes need a cable for the UK and a cable for saorview? What type of cable for each? coax or CT100 stuff. Also with these combo-boxes if recording a station, one can over switch to watch the "otherside", ie if recording a UK station they can watch Terrestrial and vice versa?

As for TV in the bedroom, its very unlikely TV channels would be needed while both of the combo-boxes are inuse. So with the Triax combo-box am I right in thinking an unused box can send the signal to the bedroom TV?

I know there's alot of questions but my mum is itching to make the TV purchases so I need to formulate my plan to switch them off UPC. With the deadline approaching, would I be better off waiting to see what else would come onto the market?

Thanks for any assistance.
W.

Peter Rhea

Satellite & terrestrial signals can be combined onto 1 cable. It's best to use '100' type cable (Webro WF100, Triax TX100 etc.)

Most combos don't have built in modulators for sending the signal to another room over coax. cable, so you'd need to buy one separately.

whowantstwoknow

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Satellite & terrestrial signals can be combined onto 1 cable. It's best to use '100' type cable (Webro WF100, Triax TX100 etc.)

Most combos don't have built in modulators for sending the signal to another room over coax. cable, so you'd need to buy one separately.

OK, so I would only need to relay one cable for each TV. Within the last 2 years when UPC were upgrading their settop box, they installed new cable into the living room. I'd need to check for any markings on it but what are the chances of it being the '100' type cable?

If I get that modulator, would the existing coax to the bedroom TV suffice for the signal?

Also do boardies give out any recommendations for installers in the kildare area?

PS: If we do use one cable, I assume We'd need these types of wallplates (seen in a recent thread here..)

Thanks
W.

Ronnie Raygun

You can try the UPC cable & if it performs satisfactorily, all well & good. If not it can be changed, a good installer should know what's what.

It will certainly be good enough for the modulated UHF output.

Those wall plates are the correct type for separating satellite & terrestrial signals.

The Cush

whowantstwoknow wrote: »

My Mum would like the TV in the Kitchen & Living room to have the Terrestrial & UK channels. She plans to upgrade these two TVs even though if they get a combo-box for each room if wouldnt be necessary. But she wont be dissuade from her shinny new purchases so take that as a given.

If she's going to replace the TVs she may want to consider a TV with an inbuilt satellite tuner e.g. this Samsung mentioned over in another thread recently - http://www.powercity.ie/?par=10-12-32ES630&pages=1&prod=32ES630&brands=SAMSUNG&image=, any Samsung model no. ending with UXXU appears to have a satellite tuner installed.

whowantstwoknow

The Cush wrote: »

If she's going to replace the TVs she may want to consider a TV with an inbuilt satellite tuner e.g. this Samsung mentioned over in another thread recently - http://www.powercity.ie/?par=10-12-32ES630&pages=1&prod=32ES630&brands=SAMSUNG&image=, any Samsung model no. ending with UXXU appears to have a satellite tuner installed.

Thanks, but it might just be me, but a TV unit that is an all in one?? What if the TV "dies" or what if there are "great" improvements in these separate combo-units. I just dont think its wise to put all ones eggs in one basket?

Thanks
W.

The Cush

whowantstwoknow wrote: »

Thanks, but it might just be me, but a TV unit that is an all in one?? What if the TV "dies" or what if there are "great" improvements in these separate combo-units. I just dont think its wise to put all ones eggs in one basket?

Personal choice I guess.

I own a combi Sony TV, about 2 years old now. Great TV. I think they are great for kitchens, bedrooms etc or where you may not want a separate satellite STB, 2 cables to the TV and a single R/C.

1dave

hi you said you have 1 main tv and 2 portable tvs. if you have an aerial output in these rooms ( cable in the walls). there is cheaper way.
the sky box. it picks up the freesat channels, it will work as a universal remote and it has an rf2 output and is cheap secondhand. they seldom break and are around 30euro. if you get the triax combo boxes its 160 euro. you or your parents will have to update the channels from time to time on the triax. the sky box updates automatically so no messing.
EG, if you put a sky box in the sitting room and bedroom you can use the rf2 off 1 of them to send the channel that is on on that box to other tv in the kitchen. put the 130 euro you save towards a saorview tv 19inch 105euro on adverts. there is more to it. if you are interested.

whowantstwoknow

1dave wrote: »

hi you said you have 1 main tv and 2 portable tvs. if you have an aerial output in these rooms ( cable in the walls). there is cheaper way.
the sky box. it picks up the freesat channels, it will work as a universal remote and it has an rf2 output and is cheap secondhand. they seldom break and are around 30euro. if you get the triax combo boxes its 160 euro. you or your parents will have to update the channels from time to time on the triax. the sky box updates automatically so no messing.
EG, if you put a sky box in the sitting room and bedroom you can use the rf2 off 1 of them to send the channel that is on on that box to other tv in the kitchen. put the 130 euro you save towards a saorview tv 19inch 105euro on adverts. there is more to it. if you are interested.

Thanks for that.. Its another option but the saorview channels would be separate. Reading all the pvr (series recording) 7 day guides issues etc... its hard to know what to do!!!

Might hold off to see what "new" hardware comes out on the market...

At the end of the day, its needs to be easy for them to use!!!

W.

zg3409

whowantstwoknow wrote: »

Portable TV in the Kitchen: Receives Terrestrial analogue signals
3) Portable TV/DVD in a bedroom: Receives Terrestrial analogue signals and is used by the grandkids for DVDs on sleepovers :-)

You will need to do something pre October 24th for these two TV's

I am generally suggesting to people to wait until August and better boxes may come out. It is unlikely a dual terrestrial Saorview approved box with series link will be available pre-october.

If September/October it is likely all prices will go up in a last minute panic. By December/January prices will go down as the hype ends.

1dave

sky box is not hard to use. save the channels in fav. press sky. press tv guide press blue and scroll through channels. press tv press 1 and its rte1up/down on channels or a number. to go back to bbc press sky. switch it off and on again and away u go. u wont get a saorview epg off sky remote doh. its what i did for my dad and he is 85. he thinks its mighty. he went from 8 to 60ish channels he hasnt saorview tv yet but it the same thing the rtes are off the tv.

1dave

freesat is uk so you wont ever get a saorview /freesat box. only saorview/ free to air. you might get a box that has hacks freesat EG sat4free but it was shut down by freesat. the other way is an internet connection. the other thing is if a combo box breaks and goes off to get fixed you have no tv at all.

whowantstwoknow

Thanks for all the advice.

With no true PVR (ie dual tuners etc), series recording etc, perhaps I should hold off till the hype is over and new devices emerge? They will need to get a sat disk etc... for when we do switch to a non-recurring charge setup, so was thinking perhaps they could avail of a Sky offer now for a year? They will get some of the necessary equipment and for what they watch I think the monthly charge would be cheaper than UPC.

They are never going to have a TV larger than 37-42 inches so would the HD offers be irrelevant? The SKY+HD would cost the €112 extra over the year (taking fatcheese discounts)

If I took a picture of their RTE aerial would people here be able to tell if it would be suitable for saorview?

Thoughts?

Thanks
W.

Quackhart

Your instincts are prolly right about a lot of things. The wait for new devices could be along one. More knowing posters herabouts have intimated that.

I was lookign to do same for the parents in law. Eventually took the plunge with an Ariva Combo box fed by Aerial and Satellite. In otherwords Saorview and Freesat. One feeding the TV directly, the other feeding it off the HDMI.
All in all, while not ideal it works very well. I would say the total investment came too €300 or so euros and was worth every penny. And the few saved also means it paid for itself, well compared to a Sky / UPC basic package for a year lets say. A Sky package was an option, but when you don't NEED to pay for the BBC/RTE/ITV etc why would you? In fact I am currently investigating the same route for my own house. Now i'm certain it works.

You could spend your life trawling through these threads looking and asking for advice & getting it too!!! Thing I noticed after a while is that the knowledgeable ones around here have taken the plunge and invested with an upgrade it to a better option later view. I'll be doing the same.

Peter Rhea

whowantstwoknow wrote: »

If I took a picture of their RTE aerial would people here be able to tell if it would be suitable for saorview?

Should be able to.

Johnboy1951

I was lookign to do same for the parents in law. Eventually took the plunge with an Ariva Combo box fed by Aerial and Satellite. In otherwords Saorview and Freesat. One feeding the TV directly, the other feeding it off the HDMI.

I used an Ariva for a similar setup ..... but fed both terrestrial and satellite cables to the Ariva, so only one remote is used for channel changing, volume etc.

Very simple to use.

I intend to change my own set up by year end (with luck) to use a quad lnb and a multiswitch and feed a single cable to multiple rooms from that, with suitable wall plates in each room to split the signal to sat & terrestrial again.

This appears to be the optimum for multiroom, --- one room will get two cables to allow for recording.

(I wonder if my plans with come to fruition )

STB

1dave wrote: »

hi you said you have 1 main tv and 2 portable tvs. if you have an aerial output in these rooms ( cable in the walls). there is cheaper way.
the sky box. it picks up the freesat channels, it will work as a universal remote and it has an rf2 output and is cheap secondhand. they seldom break and are around 30euro. if you get the triax combo boxes its 160 euro. you or your parents will have to update the channels from time to time on the triax. the sky box updates automatically so no messing.
EG, if you put a sky box in the sitting room and bedroom you can use the rf2 off 1 of them to send the channel that is on on that box to other tv in the kitchen. put the 130 euro you save towards a saorview tv 19inch 105euro on adverts. there is more to it. if you are interested.

No. Using kludged Sky boxes is not an viable alternative to recive both UK and Saorview.

And can you please stop suggesting them as such. You are confusing people.

They don't receive Saorview and they confuse people who are not used to switching sources between 2 different boxes one of which is a kludged Sky menu system of favourite channels that arent scrambled.

People want a simple one box, one remote solution as per combo boxes.

Combo boxes start at €85!

Do you have a truck load of old Sky boxes to sell ?

jonnygee

Thats a bit strong to be honest stb, it,s all about the setup and what the user expects . Combi boxes have their advantages and disadvantages.
I have set up a couple of saorview capable tv systems over the last few weeks and the users prefers the following.
Assuming the user already has a sky box.
Sky remote programmed to work tv.
saorview on channels number 1 to number 8.
sky on rf1 out setup on channel 9. they see no difference between analogue and scart.(honestly). Sky remote programmed to switch to channel 9 when sky button is pressed (select and green button).
so they press tv and 1 to get rte 1 or tv and 3 for tv3 etc. They press sky or tv guide for sky, the tv automatically switches to channel 9 and they select the sky channel they need from the epg or favourites if set up.
One sky remote does everything they need to watch tv and the only time they need the original tv remote is for text or guide.
Experinced users can use scart for sky if needed (pin 8 cut) and select that from the source button but it seems to be rarley used.

Rotating Egg

Have to agree, even if the purpose of the 3 digit channel nos. is just to give the box a headstart ..... looks like instant channel swaps.

jonnygee

Thats right, once they get used to the channel numbers it,s even easier. just to point out im referring to sky boxes with bbc on 101 etc.

Rotating Egg

Vater, Sonnen, Heilige Geistes ...

jonnygee

Amen.

1dave

the reason i suggest sky boxes is
1/ it has interactive for sports on bbc.
2/it doesnt need updating,has an epg
3/ it has universal remote.
4/ its cheap.
5/ its not a flimsy remote
6 it has rf2 out.
7/ when its first switched on, sky tell u gow to use the features.
8/if the combo box breaks you got nothing.
its not perfect ( push 2 buttons to get in to the list of channels) but i have tried ariva and triax combo and went back to sky box cos i use the rf2 and am going to saorview tv before d day. in 1-5 years money allowing it will be freesat+ boxes and saorview tvs ( cos freesat is uk and saorview is irish and we wont get an approved freesat/saorview box) we will be aiming for but as a stepping stone to that its a good cheap start........ old people wont no how to update channels or want to, i no how to but dont want to.

watty

1dave wrote: »

its not perfect ( push 2 buttons to get in to the list of channels) but i have tried ariva and triax combo and went back to sky box cos i use the rf2 and am going to saorview tv before d day. in 1-5 years money allowing it will be freesat+ boxes and saorview tvs ( cos freesat is uk and saorview is irish and we wont get an approved freesat/saorview box) we will be aiming for but as a stepping stone to that its a good cheap start........ old people wont no how to update channels or want to, i no how to but dont want to.

You have to subscribe for a minimum of a year. It's not cheap at all.
It's missing Free channels in Ireland on the EPG
After cancelling you still have less FTA channels on the EPG than exist
After cancelling you can't record.

A Sky sub was a good idea 10 years ago. Now with "Freesat HD" PVRs it's a bad idea unless you actually want to pay over €300 to €1020 a year (€1,500 to over €5100 in five years. A "Freesat HD" box could last 5 to 10 years) for Pay TV (i.e. Sky Sport). Pay TV users spend 90% of time watching free channels.

Definitely not cheap. The Sky Remote isn't a full "Universal" type. It only controls basic features on TVs only and mostly only sets released about 6 months before the last version of the Sky Remote. (Thus our older Sky Remote won't control anything on a 2 year old LG).

Sky boxes only work for 28E. Unlike Humax they can't be adapted for Saorsat or 19E/13E mainland European TV. They don't currently support a USB DTT stick (and unlikely to do so ever in Ireland) so will never work with Saorview.

1dave

im on about the white sky standard box (round front). for sale in adverts for 30 ish euro. it has all the free channels. the white remote has worked every tv i have tried it on from old ferguson to new saorview phillips tv.

1dave

with the plan to upgrade to a freesat + box when funds allow. as for the remote not working everything its not perfect but you wont be using teletext every day.

STB

1dave wrote: »

the reason i suggest sky boxes is
1/ it has interactive for sports on bbc.
2/it doesnt need updating,has an epg
3/ it has universal remote.
4/ its cheap.
5/ its not a flimsy remote
6 it has rf2 out.
7/ when its first switched on, sky tell u gow to use the features.
8/if the combo box breaks you got nothing.
its not perfect ( push 2 buttons to get in to the list of channels) but i have tried ariva and triax combo and went back to sky box cos i use the rf2 and am going to saorview tv before d day. in 1-5 years money allowing it will be freesat+ boxes and saorview tvs ( cos freesat is uk and saorview is irish and we wont get an approved freesat/saorview box) we will be aiming for but as a stepping stone to that its a good cheap start........ old people wont no how to update channels or want to, i no how to but dont want to.

For gods sake man your posts wont work in this forum.

A Sky box has NO Saorview Channels.

A Sky box without subscription has loads of channels encrypted channels which will confuse elderly/less technical people

A Saorview box would also have to be bought. An additional €60.

A Saorview box and a Sky box would involve 2 remote controls switching between scart sources and you are assuming that the TV has 2 scart inputs.

This setup will not allow recording either.

All in all confusing. Why would anyone put their parent such a ridiculous set up is beyond me. Especially when there are combo boxes (starting at €85) that allow for ONE box with ONE combined channel list of satellite and saorview stations (INCLUDING all HD channels) with ONE remote control and no source switching required. Combo boxes also allow for recording.

Please stop posting old Sky boxes as a solution for combined Saorview and Satellite channels. They do not even fulfill the basic reception requirements of even Saorview reception let alone fail miserably in the ease of use stakes.

You are posting this bad advice in various threads.

1dave

if i gave my parents a sky box and told them what to do in 1 year they would have the same channels. if i gave them a combo they would have lost channels. if a freesat box and saorview tv is the best solution. you wont get saorview epg on sat or the sat epg on saorview. so there is no difference in sky box and saorview tv/STB.
32 inch saorview about 270euro.
triax saorview combo. 170 ish
sky box 25.
sky box + saorview tv = 295 - 170 = 125 euro. for that you get a new 32inch tv for 125 (saying it costs 170ish to go digital in the first place. the satellite channels will stay in date and the remote will work the tv 1 ta 8 volume and on and off. and when money is available get the freesat box. not perfect but dont discount it.
there will be a lot of people scratching their heads with these combo box when their channels start going.
if you were to bet on which would last longer ; a second hand sky box and remote or a ferguson combo box and remote you woouldnt be betting to much.
you cannt check the lotto result on teletext ( probably the most common use for teletext in the country)on the ferguson
and other combos . if the combo box breaks; no tv at all. if you get it cheap off the net you will be posting it to get it fixed. how long will you be without tv then.
im just saying it is cheap not perfect but an option. and i give up now.;)

Ronnie Raygun

Right, we get it & I know myself that out of sub. Sky boxes are perfectly usable, but this isn't the place to be promoting their use, it just looks like you have something to gain by advising people to purchase 2nd hand gear.

1dave

no . i had sky sub, i ended it. got a ferguson for me, the home house and 2 elderly neighbours.with the ferguson i lost my interactive (sports on bbc) no digital text on saorview (the lotto numbers what people look at)no epg on sat side and i needed tv remote to turn it on/off.
so connected the sky box up again (it works the tv) im using analogue rte now.i will get a saorview tv in oct. hindsight is what i a offering from my experience. i regret putting in the two combo boxes in for the neighbours cos its "david some channel is missing can you get them back for me". people are told combo box which is a quick fix. freesat + which is very expensive. im just saying its a cheap alternative . cos no 1 else is. they only condem and dismiss it. i think its useful even if only a cheap spare if your combo breaks. lol. now ill say no more about it. hindsight is all i was offering.

Johnboy1951

I for one, was not aware of the frequency that Freesat channels change transponders, and so did not appreciate the difficulties that might arise from 'losing channels' due to this.

I use an Ariva because I have a Sat dish, no Sky sub and no Saorview TV. (I have one TV which will tune Saorview channels, but is not Saorview approved)
I also have an old Sky box, and another one available should I require it.

So there is a compromise no matter which option I choose ........ I either get all the channels I want, in the order I want to have them, with the hassle of retuning some when they change ........ or I use a Sky box which limits my channels, and requires another Saorview box for Irish DTT, and ends up neither convenient nor gives a full set of channels.

So, despite the retuning needed, the combo box is presently the most convenient. All channel selection is on one remote. The tv remote is unused after setting up the TV ..... when switched on it displays the output of the Ariva.

I regard the present combo box as an interim measure ..... and hope 'something' will become available (at reasonable cost) in the future, which will do Freesat retuning and Saorview DTT.

Alternatively, again depending on what becomes available, I may use Saorsat and Freesat in one STB.

IMHO, there is no reasonable means presently to get the best out of what is available, with easy setup and use.

Maybe a complete Satellite system will do what I want in the future ...... but for the present I will wait and see, while using the combo box.

watty

A separate "Freesat HD" box and "Saorview" box is better if you watch UK TV significantly compared to a Combo. Or a Freesat HD box on a Saorview TV.

Johnboy1951

watty wrote: »

A separate "Freesat HD" box and "Saorview" box is better if you watch UK TV significantly compared to a Combo. Or a Freesat HD box on a Saorview TV.

Not from an 'ease of use' point of view, IMO, ...... either multiple remotes or a complicated remote do not fulfil the bill.

Maybe in time ....

STB

1dave wrote: »

no . i had sky sub, i ended it. got a ferguson for me, the home house and 2 elderly neighbours.with the ferguson i lost my interactive (sports on bbc) no digital text on saorview (the lotto numbers what people look at)no epg on sat side and i needed tv remote to turn it on/off.

Where are you getting this when the combo breaks stuff ? Anything can break. Its usually through users !

Also, you didnt lose the interactive streams. The BBC sport streams are broadcast as seperate channels labelled 6711 to 6715. You can rename them what you want. There are regular channel lists that you can load to the box if something does move around on 28.2. There are also plenty of combo boxes that download the 7 day epg for the satellite side from the data transponders that hold the epg data. The 7 day epg is there by default on the Saorview side of the tuner.

There is text on Saorview, its the old aertel on RTE1.

There is EPG on the sat side, but it is limited to now and next.

1dave

now and next is not an epg its now and next. i new the interactive was on a stream but didnt no what it was called and didnt find it. so i and others just got some useful info there. anyhow im happy with what i got. 1 remote to do all, interactive the way it was designed and no updating channels. and cheap.

lawhec

1dave wrote: »

now and next is not an epg its now and next.

Actually, it is good enough to meet the definition - an "Electronic Programme Guide" doesn't actually have a minimum time period to be called one, and now & next, although lacking depth in detail, is adequate to meet this.

1dave

a NMU EPG.

whowantstwoknow

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Should be able to.

Here's the setup the parents have on the roof at the moment. So is the Terrestial aerial of any use?

BTW, the mother has gone off and bought the 2 new Tvs!! I've no idea what spec they are :eek:

W.

zg3409

The top square device is MMDS. It will be of no use if you drop UPC.

The middle aerial is a UHF that may be suitable for Saorview.

Try one of the new TV's on the analogue and see if you get RTE2 HD, RTE News now, 3E etc. If so it might be OK

The bottom thing is an old VHF band III that will be of no use after October.

Below that is a red box. This is probably used to join the two lower devices together. The bad news is they look very old. If they work now then fine, but they probably need replacing at some stage.

The red box may be rusty and full with water. This is because the bottom aerial is all rusty and bits are missing, so water may have travelled down the cable into the red box.

The best thing is to try the TV and see. Make SURE to connect the aerial BEFORE plugging in the TV. Use the connection in the Kitchen or bedroom rather than the living room.

Let us know how you get on.

whowantstwoknow

Hi all,

Well finally got around to pop into the parents. The new Kitchen TV is a 21" LED samsung!! Probably a too good a TV for their needs etc.

Anyhow tunned in the digital stations and got:

RTE1
RTE2HD
RTE1+1 (This wasnt showing anything at the time)
RTEjr (This wasnt showing anything at the time)
TG4
TV3
3e
RTENewsNow

And loads of radio stations. Pretty good pictures.

Now off to decided on what box to replace the UPC

Thanks