IM Big Week/Weekend

RedB

I'm considering scheduling a big week / weekend somewhere in the run up to IM Austria (1st July) and I'm wondering if there's any consensus on when and what's involved especially for a first-time-back-of-packer.

I'm roughly thinking about doing it 6 weeks out from the IM but I'm a bit torn as to whether it should be one big day (HIM or more?) or a stacked 3 day weekend with 2 big sessions each day (e.g. swim + run, bike + run, swim + bike?) or even just a very big week.

Or is the Big Week / Epic Camp idea flawed and should the peak training period be viewed purely in the light of Periodisation and instead just schedule in increasing weekly loads plus recovery weeks?

tunney

RedB wrote: »

I'm considering scheduling a big week / weekend somewhere in the run up to IM Austria (1st July) and I'm wondering if there's any consensus on when and what's involved especially for a first-time-back-of-packer.

I'm roughly thinking about doing it 6 weeks out from the IM but I'm a bit torn as to whether it should be one big day (HIM or more?) or a stacked 3 day weekend with 2 big sessions each day (e.g. swim + run, bike + run, swim + bike?) or even just a very big week.

Or is the Big Week / Epic Camp idea flawed and should the peak training period be viewed purely in the light of Periodisation and instead just schedule in increasing weekly loads plus recovery weeks?

I'd stick to normal training. Not a whole lot to gain from a big week.

I'm doing up a post on Austria as I got PM'ed alot of qusetions and I am brutal at replying so one hit and answer them all, just in case interesting

tunney

Assuming that normal training is a bike of 5 or so hours or honest work. Honest work as measured by a dreamcatcher/power meter/whatever. Plus another 2-3 hour ride, plus a 1 hourhard bike. Long run of 3 hours, another 5 hours of running and about 4-5 hours in the pool. Actually that is alot anyways.

I'm rambling. A huge week when you aren't used to it will increase you odds of injury just six weeks out.

BennyMul

I have read of doing a Km distance IM (2.2km swim, 112Km bike, 26k run) to be done during the end of week 3 of the phase,
No idea if this is a good idea or if there is any fitness gain from it.

shotgunmcos

If you have a 5hr ride and 3 hour run planned for a wekend at the end of a block no harm in a big brick session IMO.

3k OW swim easy, 4 hour bike TT with 3*40min at IM pace, 1hr40 run with 40 min at IM pace included. Taking relaxed 20 min transitions. Its a training day with 7 hours of work that will give you confidence that you can string it all together. This applies to IM rookies of course. Its an opportunity to practice race day thinking and nutrition too.

By now IMAT heads or early summmer IM heads will more than likely have covered the distance or most of in each discipline so the purpose of the long day is just that. A long day. You can take an early recovery day before your recovery week then

Just a suggestion that all

Oryx

I read that and shuddered. I havent come close to running or biking complete distances up to now. Feck.

peter kern

Oryx wrote: »

I read that and shuddered. I havent come close to running or biking complete distances up to now. Feck.

'If you see the buddha on the road, kill him' came to mind ;-0

hurry slowly, you will understand ...

Sorry to cut and paste you but it really fits the ocation.

tunney

festina lente indeed.

Oryx

That whooshing sound was the relevance of the last two posts sailing over my head.

shotgunmcos

Oryx wrote: »

That whooshing sound was the relevance of the last two posts sailing over my head.

Me too Oryx. PK I get from a fuzzy memory of some waffley book I read, Tunney I'm getting worried about after his last log post. Has he lost his marbles?

Basically there is no magic bullet. Some will derive a benefit out of a big weekend or training day, others won't.

If you are following DF's plan then no you won't have done the distance in either of the 3 but you will get there

Hurry slowly is something I heard a lot from experienced heads I spoke to when all I could think/worry about was that my longest bike was 'only' 4 hours

Oryx

The buddha reference I get, (I mod spirituality ) basically, if you think you have the answer, it means you haven't got the answer. Or something.

I'll keep plugging away, and keep this 'big weekend' concept in mind coming into peak phase. I hadnt intended to focus on hitting any of the distances, I didnt think there was a point apart from general confidence that you can do it, which, if youre consistent, should be ok anyway.

Like religion, there is no 'one true way' to do this, is there?

tunney

Oryx wrote: »

That whooshing sound was the relevance of the last two posts sailing over my head.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Me too Oryx. PK I get from a fuzzy memory of some waffley book I read, Tunney I'm getting worried about after his last log post. Has he lost his marbles?

I was amazed that no one got the joke that was my last blog post.

Festina lente - means "hurry slowly".

Another phrase I like is "slowly, slowly, catchy monkey"

Oryx

Ah, now I get you. The tortoise and the hare is the one Im banking on.

peter kern

fuzzy memory of some waffley book......

typical power meter addict reply from somebody that has forgotten his feelings and needs to reground to his inner self ;-) ;-0

but then you are spot on with the rest ;-0

Only to add that too many chefs spoil the broth.

peter kern

Festina lente
is a term that means also EPO in cycling jargon ;-)
so maybe Dave was implying a bit more ;-)

shotgunmcos

peter kern wrote: »

typical power meter addict reply from somebody that has forgotten his feelings and needs to reground to his inner self ;-) ;-0
.

Clarify please

tunney

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Clarify please

I'm glad you asked cause I'm lost.

Notwitch

tunney wrote: »

Assuming that normal training is a bike of 5 or so hours or honest work. Honest work as measured by a dreamcatcher/power meter/whatever. Plus another 2-3 hour ride, plus a 1 hourhard bike. Long run of 3 hours, another 5 hours of running and about 4-5 hours in the pool. Actually that is alot anyways.

I'm rambling. A huge week when you aren't used to it will increase you odds of injury just six weeks out.

Trying to 'chase' a week like this you're 12 weeks out will cause problems. The last 12 weeks (or more likely 3 years) need to be building to be capable of handling this (which I actually think is light on bike time!). Likely outcomes without the appropriate prep are injury and the focus being finishing the week rather than the race and screwing up your taper.

That being said, that's a week Tunney feels he needs to meet his time goals - not everybody has the same ambition for their day out.

Re HIM, if you do one be aware that there is a significant risk you overemphaise the positives of a good HIM when training for an ironman.

tunney

Notwitch wrote: »

Trying to 'chase' a week like this you're 12 weeks out will cause problems. The last 12 weeks (or more likely 3 years) need to be building to be capable of handling this (which I actually think is light on bike time!). Likely outcomes without the appropriate prep are injury and the focus being finishing the week rather than the race and screwing up your taper.

That being said, that's a week Tunney feels he needs to meet his time goals - not everybody has the same ambition for their day out.

Re HIM, if you do one be aware that there is a significant risk you overemphaise the positives of a good HIM when training for an ironman.

Sorry - re reading my first two posts on this thread I realise that I didn't express myself well at all.

What I had, very badly, been trying to say was:

If the work isn't done then it isn't done and there is no silver bullet to make up for this fact.

If the work hasn't been done an abnormally large load will, IMHO, be counter productive. If the work hasn't been done then the only option is to revise down time goals and manage expectations.

tunney

Notwitch wrote: »

Trying to 'chase' a week like this you're 12 weeks out will cause problems. The last 12 weeks (or more likely 3 years) need to be building to be capable of handling this (which I actually think is light on bike time!). Likely outcomes without the appropriate prep are injury and the focus being finishing the week rather than the race and screwing up your taper.

That being said, that's a week Tunney feels he needs to meet his time goals - not everybody has the same ambition for their day out.

Re HIM, if you do one be aware that there is a significant risk you overemphaise the positives of a good HIM when training for an ironman.

1)I find that a long bike takes too much out of me to do more than one and a bit a week of them. I could handle two long easy rides a week without impacting everything else but two quality long rides would leave me toast.

2)I would have seen that as a desired typical reoccurring week (I've no plans of doing training like that ever again mind) - I'd not be a fan of epic once off efforts.

peter kern

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Clarify please [/QUOTE


you did read daves ariticle about the wife manipulating her husband
.......

triathlon is a mix of art and science
but many people get lost when it gets a bit abstract.
and cling to the numbers.

Paula redcliff not performing at champion chip races has nothing to do with her numbers.


anyway you did see my 2 smiles at the end of the line ??????
and a bit cheekiness is never wrong

LCD

Do what Brian Boitano would do. He wouldn't ask around!

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Thoughts on a big week if you have been putting in the hours and have an opportunity to practice race pace efforts on bike/run in the same heat as your target race, not to mention ow swimming?
How far would you step up volume/intensity given biggest week is 18hrs with probably 3 to 4 sessions with intensity.

peter kern

go for it ! 18h is solid training and work is being done
where epic camp goes wrong is there silly points for first up the mountain etc.
train to race and dodnt race in training.... !!!!!

swim swim swim
bike bike
run
sleep sleep sleep and sleep some more
and keep your body in good shape.

and just be big enough to say enough is enough and absorb the training .
you get that point right and you are good.
and adjust training to weather.
and did i say dont race ;-0 day 1 2 they show off on the bike how fast they can go, day 5 they are done.
train with chicks that are at your level they train much smarter.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

peter kern wrote: »

go for it ! 18h is solid training and work is being done
where epic camp goes wrong is there silly points for first up the mountain etc.
train to race and dodnt race in training.... !!!!!

swim swim swim
bike bike
run
sleep sleep sleep and sleep some more
and keep your body in good shape.

and just be big enough to say enough is enough and absorb the training .
you get that point right and you are good.
and adjust training to weather.
and did i say dont race ;-0 day 1 2 they show off on the bike how fast they can go, day 5 they are done.
train with chicks that are at your level they train much smarter.

It will be all solo effort for the week as its not a training camp so no racing to the top of the mountain:) Yeah my thoughts are without the 4 kids, the 60hr work week and other life pressures that would allow in itself to train a bit harder/smarter within the week. No doubt coach will have a master plan having the same "life pressures" to deal with during training.