Student Medical Center to Start Charging

cjthecrow

Nockz wrote: »

Would you rather they didn't ask for your opinion?

Edit: Is it fair to assume that any action the SU takes on such matters is the work of the new sabbats?

We're not in office until June, we're still students like yourself with assignments, projects and exams. All we can do is help the current officers. At this moment in time it falls on the current sabbats. In saying that if there is any difference I can make I will be sure to do it.

muscleshirt

my cousin is going to queens belfast and all med is free even operations

Cossax

Nockz wrote: »

Would you rather they didn't ask for your opinion?

Edit: Is it fair to assume that any action the SU takes on such matters is the work of the new sabbats?

Technically, my opinion doesn't matter as I'm no longer a student.

However, asking students' opinions on a matter which is seemingly already decided so that the current sabbats can spend their last few weeks campaigning against said decision before handing over to new sabbats to continue the campaign just seems a bit silly, especially seeing as they knew at least a week ahead of the announcement and possibly even longer.

Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted springs to mind.

shabouwcaw

I would like to offer the following points:

Firstly -

yekahS wrote:

Its high time some of this entitlement culture embedded in the student culture in Ireland caught up with the real world.

Entitlement culture? i.e. the culture of feeling entitled to things that you are entitled to? I don't understand the point at which your argument becomes a criticism? There is a taxation system that exists to pay for certain goods or services. When you access those services, to which you are entitled, and bemoan the loss of them, I don't see the point at which this becomes a harm. If you're arguing that philosophically we shouldn't have a safety net, or service provision to those who are less well off (of which students would arguably fall within) without charges at the point of access should be removed, that's a different argument than an appeal to the "real world" (what is that? can you provide an objective ontologically consistent definition of the reality that your argument presupposes?) and the necessity to charge people due to the existence of this outside world, so be less intellectually disingenuous.

Secondly, there's a large contingent in this thread whose argumentation is essentially based on a captured neo-liberal premise, that is that necessarily services need to commoditized. I would argue that the premise involved is false.

Even if there exists an obligation to pay for services elsewhere, that is not a justification. Things can be wrong elsewhere. What you need to prove is that the obligation to pay is justified in this instance.

With that in mind, I would say the following -

There is a sustained attack on principles of social justice ongoing in 3rd level education at this moment in time (see proposed tuition fees, see increasing registration charges, see USI capitulation on same). The idea that people can merely "get student loans" or "get a part time job" or forgo the price of a night out to pay for the doctor is an incredibly privileged one. In combination with ever increasing levels of student contribution to education, the acceptance of this charge as merely part of the "real world", shows how morally bankrupt that real world has become. The reality is that the imposition of charges for STI tests or psychiatric testing will deter people who need such services. Perhaps those with chronic illness will continue to go out of necessity, but what we are doing is systemically excluding those from more "voluntary" (i.e. less immediately threatening to life or health) but nonetheless essential services who happen due to circumstances of societal position to outside of a position where they can make a free choice with regard to these services.

In addition, merely because someone avails of a service, does not mean that they should be charged for it. A justification as to why that is the case is needed.

The idea that this is congruent with neo-liberal philosophy in other areas is in fact why this is a particularly harmful decision. The acceptance of this change as economically necessary excludes the idea of social responsibility that should be our primary calculus.

thomond2006

Sad to see but with the times we live in, it's realistic that students can't get these services for free.

Ginge Young

The easiest way to get this sorted is to get a complete list of what is classed as a student service and where exactly our contribution goes to.

I'm sure Derek would be able to get this from the University. Considering it's our money paying for our services it should be available.

From that it will be quite clear to see if our contribution is enough to cover the medical centre for free. If it's not, the University should not have to pay anything extra.

What it will also allow us to see is the breakdown for all services, at which point the student body could decide a certain service could be cut back and by doing that maintain the medical centre for free.

Like I said from the beginning the figures must be released, it is not fair for anyone to assume 1) Students have to pay or 2) Students shouldn't pay a thing until they are released.

The fact that 3 sabbats didn't know about this is quite worrying too. Surely we should have a proper say in what our contribution goes to?

wnolan1992

Have to laugh at the email from the SU. I love how they're only going to start negotiating with the Uni AFTER the decision has been made.

And they're going to organise a campaign? Let's say for argument's sake that the majority of the student body respond to the survey and criticise the charges and want them revoked. The sabbat team, as elected representatives of the student body would be required to lobby against it, even though two of them have already come out and said in different guises that it's necessary...

And I'd say there'll be some campaign alright. I mean, we all have loads of free time over the next four weeks to organise a protest or whatever would be required.

Shambles.

freyners

tbh my opinion couldn't get any lower than what it is now after the email.

at least 1 week too late

but it doesnt matter, they got their big story for the paper, thats what matters right?

Ginge Young

As far as I know, 3 of them did not know a thing about it.

bentoverhard

Ginge Young wrote: »

As far as I know, 3 of them did not know a thing about it.

an absolute disgrace.

easy to know which of them enjoy being bent over and rode red raw without a rubber.


the survey is an absolute joke as well, especially the last question.

Something's rotten in the state of Denmark, and it is Derek's cream.

roro1neil0

another example of SU failure. Really these guys should all be sacked and replaced with 2 full time staff members and make student representation voluntary. These people can't be trusted to look after a hamster never mind a massive business.

joey12

This revelation has really been the last nail in the coffin for the SU when I'm concerned. It makes me sick, these guys represent us. We are the students that expect them to get us a fair deal, something that has not happened here. No mention that there were even concerns, if I was in office I would ask the student body what stance and the union should take and follow through with it.

It is absolutely sick, I think the need for a union in its current form should be questioned. Why are we getting it wrong and other colleges getting it right. NUIG formed a deal the the uni there, surely there was scope for a deal.

I think students should be asked what they think of the SU, the SU needs to be fixed and fast. The people in that building should be ashamed of themselves, they have not represented the students in any way.

ninty9er

It's absolutely untrue to say this is the first students have heard of it. I've raised this at Council numerous times over 3 years. If you feel you didn't know, then you should take more notice of what goes on.

When did if become more apparent there MAY be charges?? Around November. We were asked what services were considered to be essential and what service improvements were necessary at the Health Centre. I asked Tara to speak to the Director of Student Affairs on it at the time. There was a further indication about 3 weeks ago but no detail.

In terms of the level of charges, don't take it as a foregone conclusion. The first time I saw the numbers was in An Focal. I'm not particularly pleased with charges for psych and contraceptive consultations, certainly not at the costs presented.

If the university does not balance the budget by the 30th of September (that means more cuts than this) then it will be penalised by the HEA.

2012/13s budget is likely to be the worst ever framed in the institution, with economic indicators that the following 2 will be worse again.

This is not peculiar to UL, or even Ireland.

I will take any researched criticism, but the know it all attitudes prevailing around here of late do nothing to endear your opinions to me, nor do I particularly care if people think I'm an arsehole, I'm just doing my best and if you don't like it you should have put your own name on a ballot!!

ninty9er

Ginge Young wrote: »

The easiest way to get this sorted is to get a complete list of what is classed as a student service and where exactly our contribution goes to.

I'm sure Derek would be able to get this from the University. Considering it's our money paying for our services it should be available.

When we sought it across the sector 18 months ago they changed the Student Service Charge (for student services) to the Student Contribution (for everything).

The Student Contribution just forms part of each institution's budget. It's not tracked nor does it have to be. That move was a direct result of SUs trying to get a definition of student services and the cost of them.

The reality is that nobody will define what a student service is for fear they may have to cut it.

roro1neil0

ninty9er wrote: »

I will take any researched criticism, but the know it all attitudes prevailing around here of late do nothing to endear your opinions to me, nor do I particularly care if people think I'm an arsehole, I'm just doing my best and if you don't like it you should have put your own name on a ballot!!

go on out of that, cry me a river. This is nothing to do with you being an arsehole. You are the most experienced and politically astute 'student' in the college and it's your job to make stuff like this known to the student body. Accept failure on that. Do not pretend it's our fault we didn't go to some ****ty meeting where it was proposed that something might happen. This cut is going to happen unless there is a serious student wide protest. The problem is, you couldn't give a flying **** about this issue, if you did you would be spear heading a campaign to come up with a alternative or a compromise. You've washed your hands of your SU responsibilities, you're a company man not a student representative. 3 years is too long for anyone in the SU and you've become so cynical you can't even do your job right. You're a disgrace to your own legacy. shame on you.

testicle

They'll be charging for beer in the Stables next...

shabouwcaw

ninty9er wrote:

If the university does not balance the budget by the 30th of September (that means more cuts than this) then it will be penalised by the HEA.

So the penalty for not having a balanced budget is what exactly? A fine? Financial sanctions? That's pretty smart. Make it more difficult to balance the budget because you didnt balance the budget. This country.

Either that's the stupidest policy known to man, it's entirely ineffectual (i.e. it's a slap on the wrist) or its not true.

ninty9er wrote:

I will take any researched criticism, but the know it all attitudes prevailing around here of late do nothing to endear your opinions to me, nor do I particularly care if people think I'm an arsehole, I'm just doing my best and if you don't like it you should have put your own name on a ballot!!

It's hard to have researched criticism when there's no way to get the facts. What "Council" did you raise this at? I think people would have sat up and noticed if it had been a recent council, but regrettably you abolished it, so unless you've been talking to yourself, that news wasnt communicated recently.

Grand, don't accept peoples opinions, not like it's your job to be a representative or anything. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all.

Also, I did put my name on a ballot. I wouldnt judge others for not doing it.

ninty9er

shabouwcaw wrote: »

ninty9er wrote:

If the university does not balance the budget by the 30th of September (that means more cuts than this) then it will be penalised by the HEA.

So the penalty for not having a balanced budget is what exactly? A fine? Financial sanctions? That's pretty smart. Make it more difficult to balance the budget because you didnt balance the budget. This country.

Either that's the stupidest policy known to man, it's entirely ineffectual (i.e. it's a slap on the wrist) or its not true.

ninty9er wrote:

I will take any researched criticism, but the know it all attitudes prevailing around here of late do nothing to endear your opinions to me, nor do I particularly care if people think I'm an arsehole, I'm just doing my best and if you don't like it you should have put your own name on a ballot!!

It's hard to have researched criticism when there's no way to get the facts. What "Council" did you raise this at? I think people would have sat up and noticed if it had been a recent council, but regrettably you abolished it, so unless you've been talking to yourself, that news wasnt communicated recently.

Grand, don't accept peoples opinions, not like it's your job to be a representative or anything. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all.

Also, I did put my name on a ballot. I wouldnt judge others for not doing it.

SU Presidential candidate not informed enough to know Class Reps Council met 6 times this year???

bentoverhard

Finally The Prince of Thieves Speaks.

Derek Daly, a man of many traits, a master of nothing.

All I can say is what an absolute wanker.

You have bent over and let this university saddle the students senseless.

The clubs and socs thing was a scummy move, but I didn't give a shit cause it only impacted the 10% of people who used it.

But now you've screwed over every ordinary student.
You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.
What a horrible excuse for a student representative.
Any person with an ounce of care would have had this plastered across the college three weeks ago at the latest (if that's when you say you say it became a real possibility) letting students know and organising protests.

Wouldn't have happened under Ruan that's for sure.

Hang your head in shame daly.

ninty9er

You'd swear I made the decision to charge for the Health Centre the way some people are going on.

shabouwcaw

SU Presidential candidate not informed enough to know Class Reps Council met 6 times this year???

Where it's a pointless formality. Try harder.

roro1neil0

ninty9er wrote: »

You'd swear I made the decision to charge for the Health Centre the way some people are going on.

Listen let's not get into the blame game here. You did absolutely nothing to oppose it and you didn't do enough to let the people who would oppose it know.

How is it that the welfare officer and the PSU president didn't know about it without you specifically keeping it from them. ARe they lying (wouldnt put it past them)?

reunion

ninty9er wrote: »

It's absolutely untrue to say this is the first students have heard of it. I've raised this at Council numerous times over 3 years. If you feel you didn't know, then you should take more notice of what goes on.

Where are the minutes of these council meetings? 3 years ago is a laughable amount of time, half of the undergrads weren't even in the college! I was a class rep for 2 out of the last 3 years and am very included in what goes on but I heard about this from an focal!

Derek, this year you have told C&S that the money was there the entire time this year and the problem was on how we wanted to spend the money (which was complete bull). The survey that was emailed out, should have been sent out 3 weeks ago when charging for the medical centre was a real possibility.

Can you care to give us some real facts? Who knew about it and for how long? Was it not public knowledge because it would affect some sabbats campaign hopes?

How can we research anything when you have kept alot of it hidden for 3 weeks? You talk about a penalty for the HEA, but where is the proof of that? It's information you have, the public don't. I'm guessing the information will be available in 3 weeks?

When was the last time it was raised to the ENTIRE STUDENT BODY? not a select few class reps. In an focal/an email sent out in the last week.

In the purposed referendum include a question, Should the SU investigate and attempt to secure no charges for the medical centre?

roro1neil0

looks like daly has gone to ground again

Cpt_Blackbeard

Have to say that Daly has made a great start to his political career. It hasn't even begun and there are 10,000+ students who probably never consider voting for him. Well done.

roro1neil0

Has Daly really set a nasty precedent of not telling his colleagues about stuff that is decided at high up meetings?

ninty9er

roro1neil0 wrote: »

Has Daly really set a nasty precedent of not telling his colleagues about stuff that is decided at high up meetings?

I called all sabbaticals to my office within 20 minutes of being told to inform them of what I had been told.

There's people making assumptions left, right and centre here without any consideration for the facts.

I have opposed SHC charges at various levels including at Governing Authority so it is completely disingenuous of anyone to suggest otherwise. Were I not a representative of the students I would have some choice words to describe the level of comment here.

roro1neil0

Ah would you give over with your shocked and appalled bull****. answer the questions asked and give your explanation and your side of the story. Do you not feel you have to explain yourself to the students? Are you above that now? We are the students are only asking you what happened and you won't tell us.

you can send me a pm of what you think of me if it makes you feel any better and i will treat with the strictest confidence. It's almost every night of the week someone from the su calls me a **** i'm used to it.

Edit: A couple of DD's cronies have taken it on themselves to send me abusive messages, thank you, please desist.

freyners

In terms of the level of charges, don't take it as a foregone conclusion. The first time I saw the numbers was in An Focal. I'm not particularly pleased with charges for psych and contraceptive consultations, certainly not at the costs presented.

Derek if the printing deadline for an focal was the week before it was released how did you only see the level of charges when an focal was released
Does that mean you havent been keeping up to date on the issue yourself?

Ginge Young

bentoverhard wrote: »

The clubs and socs thing was a scummy move, but I didn't give a shit cause it only impacted the 10% of people who used it.

I'll post a little more probably in a while, must have dinner but just to point out 10%? From the last figures I saw I believe there are somewhere in the region of 6k to 7k individual accounts and active memberships within C&S, that's a lot more than 10%.