SINGLE FATHER ADVICE NEEDED

ennis81

I hope someone can help with my question, I am asking for my cousin. hes seperated from his ex for 2.5 yrs and has taken the child for 3 days a week plus pays €125 maintenance per week, it was a civil break up and no courts have been involved so far, he has told the ex he intends to go away for a week and she says he can't as he must take the child for her so it doesn't interfere with her social life, can anyway tell me if this is true or if his is in fact entilted to take a holiday?? any advice appreciated thank you

Plumpynuter

If there is no court agreement then its just a matter of mutual agreement. Has the mother been given reasonable notice? Maybe she would like the favour returned in the future herself? Has he got parents that could take the child?

I would formalise their agreement to be honest to ensure that it is fair to both parents and the child. It does not need to go to court if both party's are agreeable. It is important to have a record of his contribution towards the child in case there are issues in the future. By the way, if he has the child for 3 full days a week then that does affect maintenance etc. That's nearly half the week and brings about its own costs for him.

He has to see it from both sides. If he was the main carer he would not be able to go away without making arrangements for the child. Same applys.

By the way, make sure payments are not made in cash. Put it straight into her bank so that there is a record.

pwurple

Hold on a second... never mind what the mother is doing during that time.

He wants to take a holiday and is ditching the child for the duration instead of making arrangements for their care?

No way.

Orion

pwurple: nobody has suggested ditching anyone. Please keep your posts helpful and your tone civil in future.

fasttalkerchat

He is not employed as a childminder. If he doesn't want to or cant see the child on a certain day that is the mother's problem since she has custody. He pays maintainance and she pays for childminders food clothing etc.

Ms. Pingui

I'm with the child's mother on this. If he agreed to take his child three days a week, then it's his reponsibility to do so regardless of holidays or anything else. It's up to him to arrange alternative childcare as the mother would have to do if she wished to go on holidays without the child.

fasttalkerchat

Ms. Pingui wrote: »

I'm with the child's mother on this. If he agreed to take his child three days a week, then it's his reponsibility to do so regardless of holidays or anything else. It's up to him to arrange alternative childcare as the mother would have to do if she wished to go on holidays without the child.

But he pays child maintainance. If he only fed and clothed the child during the 3 days he has the child i would see your point but the fact is that he already pays his fair share.

Ms. Pingui

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

But he pays child maintainance. If he only fed and clothed the child during the 3 days he has the child i would see your point but the fact is that he already pays his fair share.

There are other responsibilities apart from paying your way when you're a parent. I'm assuming he pays maintenence because the mother deals with medical bills, extracurricular fees, clothes etc. Obviously they split day to day costs fairly equally as they split the parenting time almost equally. Regardless of this, he is not paying the mother to mind the child so maintence money should not come into it?

fasttalkerchat

Ms. Pingui wrote: »

There are other responsibilities apart from paying your way when you're a parent. I'm assuming he pays maintenence because the mother deals with medical bills, extracurricular fees, clothes etc. Obviously they split day to day costs fairly equally as they split the parenting time almost equally. Regardless of this, he is not paying the mother to mind the child so maintence money should not come into it?

I assumed that once you pay maintainance that you have no legal obligation to meet any other costs. It is his choice whether or not to take up and visitation rights that she offers him.

Ms. Pingui

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I assumed that once you pay maintainance that you have no legal obligation to meet any other costs. It is his choice whether or not to take up and visitation rights that she offers him.

I wouldn't say it's a choice... more like a responsibility. He agreed to take his child these days every week therefore he should do it unless he is going arrange for family to to mind the child instead.

highly1111

I would have thought that it would be up to him to organise child care for the days he usually takes the child if he is away. However from the child's point of view s/he may question why they just wouldn't stay with mum if dad is away. However parents don't get 'holidays' from their kids - not unless they arrange alternative childcare so it would be the same for any parent - regardless of relationship status.

Can he come to some arrangement with her so she can take the child for a full week now and he can take the child for a week later in the year?

Or can he take the child for the full week's holidays?? Would he like to take his child with him? If not, why not?

The issue of maintenance is not relevant I would have thought. Either is the mum's reason for being awkward about the situation.

I don't know if this helps and I have no knowledge of the area of family law. I'm just saying what I think is the common sense argument.

ennis81

WOW, v bitter views on here, I for the record am a single mother myself and have never had a problem with my ex taking a holiday with or without our child, my cousin has offered to take the child on hols and she refused because she doesn't like who he is going away with, she point blank refused then asked him to take the child for the whole wkend because she wants to go away on a hens this weekend. I feel so sorry for single or seperated fathers in this backward country. Thanks for the helpful reasonable views

Sleepy

Sounds like the mother in this case doesn't realise how good she has it tbh. €125 a week maintenance for the 1/2 a day of extra parenting she's doing?!

A trip to court to formalise their shared custody might be no harm for your cousin tbh. As it stands he's paying a very high level of maintenance whilst taking an almost equal amount of the parenting (most unmarried parents I know where the Dad would only be taking the child a day or two a week would be paying maintenance in the region of 50 - 100 per week).

I'd agree with the suggestion that he could try discussing it with her on a "well, can we agree to it this once and I'll have the child for a full week when you want to go on your own holidays or look into taking the child for the full week himself?

LegacyUser

Sleepy wrote: »

Sounds like the mother in this case doesn't realise how good she has it tbh. €125 a week maintenance for the 1/2 a day of extra parenting she's doing?!

A trip to court to formalise their shared custody might be no harm for your cousin tbh. As it stands he's paying a very high level of maintenance whilst taking an almost equal amount of the parenting (most unmarried parents I know where the Dad would only be taking the child a day or two a week would be paying maintenance in the region of 50 - 100 per week).

I'd agree with the suggestion that he could try discussing it with her on a "well, can we agree to it this once and I'll have the child for a full week when you want to go on your own holidays or look into taking the child for the full week himself?

You don't know don't the fiances of the family involved so you are not in a position to coment now whether that amount of maintenace is too high or not! Every situation is different. Access visits are not the same as having a child living with you and paying the childcare, rent, school, Santa, medical bills etc. A single parent tax allowance would offset some of that maintenance amount. As you can see the cousin thinks its ok for him to swan off on holidays without a care in the world, so he is hardly doing the equal amount of parenting!

The Corinthian

Sleepy wrote: »

Sounds like the mother in this case doesn't realise how good she has it tbh. €125 a week maintenance for the 1/2 a day of extra parenting she's doing?!

Depends of whether they were married - if they were then he's likely getting off lightly, otherwise I'd agree with you.

TBH, it's difficult to tell who's reasonable and who's not in this case. He may have given her plenty of notice and she's simply bitter that he can go on holiday or he may have sprung this on her and she understandably is having none of it.

I would agree that he should formalize guardianship and custody as he essentially has joint custody at present. He should go to her and formally ask her for this and if she refuses make an application through the courts without delay. In that scenario, it will likely sour relations and she may then begin to play silly bugger with him by withholding access or counter-suing for more maintenance, so before he does so he needs to have his ducks in a row where it comes to the level of custody he has as this will have to be demonstrated in court.

The Corinthian

dunnoaboutthat wrote: »

You don't know don't the fiances of the family involved so you are not in a position to coment now whether that amount of maintenace is too high or not! Every situation is different. Access visits are not the same as having a child living with you and paying the childcare, rent, school, Santa, medical bills etc. A single parent tax allowance would offset some of that maintenance amount. As you can see the cousin thinks its ok for him to swan off on holidays without a care in the world, so he is hardly doing the equal amount of parenting!

Don't you find it just a little bit contradictory that you feel that we're not in a position to coment now whether that amount of maintenace is too high or not but you can pronounce that the father in question has swanned off on holidays without a care in the world?

Sleepy

dunnoaboutthat wrote: »

You don't know don't the fiances of the family involved so you are not in a position to coment now whether that amount of maintenace is too high or not! Every situation is different. Access visits are not the same as having a child living with you and paying the childcare, rent, school, Santa, medical bills etc. A single parent tax allowance would offset some of that maintenance amount. As you can see the cousin thinks its ok for him to swan off on holidays without a care in the world, so he is hardly doing the equal amount of parenting!

€150 for the 1 day extra a week she has the child for seems high to me (assuming this is child support rather than alimony). That metric would suggest it costs €300 a day to provide for the child or €9,000 per 30 day month! Now, maybe they have the same nanny that cared for the Windsors but even an entire family spending that per month would be outliers in Ireland (since it'd be the equivalent of over a 200k per annum income when you take tax into account) never mind it being spend on a single child.

I love how you denigrate having the child for 3 days a week to mere "access visits" btw, I'd call it being about as involved in the parenting of one's child as either a mother or father could be when they live separately from the child's other parent.

ash23

Maintenance and access are separate issues.

If he feels he is paying too much maintenance then he needs to work out the childs costs and divide it that way.

If he has access 3 days a week then the child is his responsibility on those days and the mother is right to an extent. Any parent has to make arrangements when they want to go away without their children. She is being difficult as it may benefit her in future if she wishes to go away or change access.
He should make arrangements for the child to be looked after while he is away or he should take the child with him on holidays.
Organising around children is part of being a parent. Obviously it would be better if both parents are flexible but essentially she doesn't have to be. And the attitude of "she has custody, he has no obligation" may very well come back to bite him on the ass if he chooses that approach and he could well find himself relegated to a "once a month if at all" daddy if he chooses that tack.

Sleepy

ash23 wrote: »

Maintenance and access are separate issues.

Legally, unless the access is equivalent to shared custody, I'd agree.

In reality, how often would you see people telling custodial parents not to let their ex near the children if they're not paying maintenance or how often do you think it happens that the custodial parent relegates the other to a "once a month if at all" parent if they don't play acquiesce to their maintenance demands?

While the ex may be entirely within her rights, it sounds like she's being quite unreasonable. The OP's cousin will either have to:

1) try and come to a deal with her
2) arrange for someone to mind the child for the three days while he's away
or
3) see if she'd object to the child coming on the holiday with him for the week.

ash23

[QUOTE=Sleepy;78107606In reality, how often would you see people telling custodial parents not to let their ex near the children if they're not paying maintenance or how often do you think it happens that the custodial parent relegates the other to a "once a month if at all" parent if they don't play acquiesce to their maintenance demands?[/QUOTE]

And in those instances I would say the same. Keep the two separate. People do not "pay" for the priviledge of seeing their kids. Kids can't and shouldn't be bought.
I hate to see access used in that way by anyone.

The Corinthian

ash23 wrote: »

do not "pay" for the priviledge of seeing their kids. Kids can't and shouldn't be bought.
I hate to see access used in that way by anyone.

Happens more often than you would care to think, I'm afraid.

cbyrd

What is the mam's position if he is ill or unable to look after their child for the agreed days? Surely this has been discussed? What age is the child? Schoolgoing or not?

I'm sure it's crossed her mind to go for a week away too. I'm not in anyway suggesting child abandonment but sometimes grownups like a bit of a holiday without kids in tow.. i know i do..i'm doing it next weekend for 2 nights and i can't wait to get away from my kids :eek::D i do love them but i need a break. If i could get a week i'd have to be held back

It's not a situation where i have any experience but i've seen my brother going through similar and usually the promise of returning the favour at a later date works.. unless she's just being deliberately obstructive and just doesnt' want to see him going away to enjoy himself...then nothing will change her mind. It's hard to know what her reason is unless he asks her. IF there's absolutely no way that she'll come to an agreement then i'd suggest going to court and making a formal agreement. There are single parents who love to have their kids for a week or 2 at a time during holidays and i'm sure this could be arranged too..

ennis81

Like I have already said I appreciate all of the reasonable responses and advice.
I never said my cousin wanted to "swan off on holidays" child is nearly 5 and he has never gone away in that time, his mam and dad and brother all work and she is unwilling to allow anyone else to take the child. He also offered to take his child on hols and she won't allow it
I'm sorry I posted here to be honest, I think some of the views on here are shocking, claims of swanning off and his lack of responsiblity are completely wrong.
I myself (single mum) have always been reasonable to my ex, I'm not trying to ruin his life, he is entitled to have a decent life too, and I know if my ex is happy, we are better parents and our child is happy,
Obviously my attitude is completely niave according to some of the comments here

The Corinthian

Without knowing the full story behind your cousin's situation, notably if he was ever married, we can only speculate on much of what is going on.

However, it does seem clear that he has de facto joint custody if he has his child three days a week. If he was never married and has no formal rights, then what is likely going on is that the mother in question is acting out of self-interest and power, also because it would be very hard to justify his paying that level of maintenance for the child when she has him only for one extra day.

I would reiterate that he should formalize guardianship and access if he has not done so already. Additionally, he is in a position to be declared as having joint custody too.

Speaking from experience, I can understand that he would want to avoid going legal because of the strife and potential costs this would invite - there's always the temptation to try and reason and hope that in time she'll become milder and more reasonable. Unfortunately, often this does not happen and instead she'll become worse; changing goalposts, making more and more demands, all because she has all the power and knows it.

If this is an accurate description of your cousin's situation, he should get this sorted in court sooner rather than later. I can tell you that otherwise he will regret not having done so in the long run.

ennis81

Thank you The Corinthian I agree with your advice completely, they were never marrried, I will be advising him to take the legal road.
I wish some single mothers understood that there are single fathers out there who feel just as hard done by as they do. Evey single situation is different.