Forum charter - any chance of update?

E.T.

Is it possible to add an extra item to the forum charter?

My suggestion is that posters should have to back up comments about teachers with proof of their statement, from a factual source (and not just an article in the Indo).

I'm just fed up with people posting random figures for teachers' wages, the amount of "dead wood" teachers, and other just outright made up fantasies.

It's getting harder and harder to have any kind of rational debate in this forum because of the amount of trollling that is posted without any need to prove statements.

What do other teachers think?

Editing to say that the factual source should be up to date - no more using old figures (especially Ronan Lyons', which are always dragged out!) as proof of pay etc.

dambarude

It's badly needed. I think the tone and nature of the forum has changed considerably in the last while, and that the charter should reflect this.

Evidence to corroborate statements would be required on both side though, I would imagine. If the anecdotal evidence of a poster who had 'layabout' teachers doesn't cut it, will the anecdotal evidence of a teacher who 'works all hours, along with everyone else in the school' cut it either?

E.T.

It's more the "facts and figures" that are posted without proof that I'm talking about. How many different figures for teachers' wages have been posted here? Or misquoted and incorrect figures from the PISA report? Statements about Irish teachers being the best paid in the world etc. I'd hope that anyone with an ounce of sense can take the "my friend's friend said that" posts with a pinch of sense.

TheDriver

I think some definite line between making a genuine negative about teachers vs labouring the point post after post without anything other than a hatred for not going into teaching themselves

Another suggestion is a sticky about teaching council including any question about "is my degree allowed" etc as its a common post put up. Another one about "should I go teaching"??

Toto Wolfcastle

It all comes down to fact vs opinion. Yes, we can add it to the charter that evidence should be posted to prove statements that are posted as fact (For example, the amount of teachers who have been fired, or the amount unqualified teachers who are teaching) however we cannot ask people to back up an opinion with actual evidence.

If the opinion is a wild one that generalises about all teachers (or students or parents or anyone for that matter) then it is against the charter. Trolling is also against the charter.

Rest assured, we are not just ignoring these things. I spent an hour this evening going through a thread with an admin. There are things going on behind the scenes.

I will also add that there are very few posts reported in T&L. There were a few yesterday and today but certainly not the amount that I would have expected given the behaviour in the thread that was reported. It would help greatly if posters simply ignored posters who they think are trolling and report the posts. Similarly, it would help massively if threads didn't descend into one-upmanship and general sniping about spelling and grammar and facts and figures.

It annoys me as much as it annoys you that rational debate has not been entirely possible recently. However, as I said, we are working on it.

Toto Wolfcastle

TheDriver wrote: »

Another suggestion is a sticky about teaching council including any question about "is my degree allowed" etc as its a common post put up. Another one about "should I go teaching"??

3 is the amount of stickys that we are limited to.

E.T.

I suppose one of the problems is when to report? Nobody wants to feel that they have to run to the teacher/mod every time they're upset by a post, but at this stage I could report a lot of the posts on every thread about teachers for sweeping generalisations. It's not the opinion - everybody's entitled to theirs, but the amount of rubbish "facts" and figures being posted is completely out of hand.

I did report a post last week that was very insulting to teachers in general, but didn't hear anything about it, and didn't see any change to the post.

For me it just came to a head today when I saw a teacher post that they were going to just pm suggestions to another teacher today on a homework thread. They said this was because there wasn't any point in posting on the actual thread anymore due to the level of trolling. That just completely defeats the purpose of having a Teaching and Lecturing thread!

Toto Wolfcastle

E.T. wrote: »

I suppose one of the problems is when to report? Nobody wants to feel that they have to run to the teacher/mod every time they're upset by a post, but at this stage I could report a lot of the posts on every thread about teachers for sweeping generalisations.

Then do. I don't read every post. I don't have time. We rely on reported posts.

E.T. wrote: »

I did report a post last week that was very insulting to teachers in general, but didn't hear anything about it, and didn't see any change to the post.

I was away last week so I don't know anything about this. Perhaps you could report it again or PM it to me and I'll have a look.

E.T. wrote: »

For me it just came to a head today when I saw a teacher post that they were going to just pm suggestions to another teacher today on a homework thread. They said this was because there wasn't any point in posting on the actual thread anymore due to the level of trolling. That just completely defeats the purpose of having a Teaching and Lecturing thread!

I'm not going to allow people to discuss specific threads or posts here. (Although admittedly I did reference a specific thread about. What I said there goes for all thread in T&L) As I said already, I spent an hour going through T&L with an admin tonight.

Miss Lockhart

People who post an article or quote from an article should have to offer their own opinion on it, as in other forums (AH and Politics for example).

I agree that people who post facts should have to quote a credible source and I agree that while articles can be a good topic of discussion, they should not count as credible sources of statistical facts. People should still be able to discuss personal experiences and opinions so long as they are clearly stated as such.

In reality I don't know how the charter can stop the trolls and soapboxers. It's certainly a great pity though that you can't even ask for advice about homework now without being subjected to a rant about the general failings in education.

noodler

I'd like to avoid situations where a thread can be locked by a moderator (usually a teacher) the second it seems the tide of opinion is turning against the profession.

Toto Wolfcastle

noodler wrote: »

I'd like to avoid situations where a thread can be locked by a moderator (usually a teacher) the second it seems the tide of opinion is turning against the profession.

I would like to avoid this too. I believe it happened once last year, but that decision was immediately overturned and the thread re-opened. If you believe this has happened then you can PM the moderator. For what it's worth, it's in the charter that constructive criticism is allowed. I think this is something that a lot of people seem to struggle with, on both sides. Some people can't seem to grasp the constructive bit and others can't see that sometimes criticism can be constructive.

I'm adding it to the charter that where possible posts stated as fact should be backed up.

This forum is where teachers, at times, come to look for advice. Therefore I'm also adding it to the charter that when a thread is started looking for advice, that posters should only post if they can give advice. There are plenty of other threads in this forum for people to post other opinions in. If someone is looking for advice then they should be helped. Again, constructive criticism would be allowed as per the charter. I might ask the admins if we can get an advice tag to add to threads like that.

I'm going to give people until this time on Friday to add anything other changes that they feel are necessary. Then I'm locking this thread.

The Black Oil

There's a line in the Aircraft & Aviation forum charter about no airline bashing and there is a conflict of interest declaration type thread in the Commuting and Transport forum. Not to say that these models are applicable to T&L, or that people should have to declare who they are in here since they may not want to for privacy reasons, but perhaps something could be drawn up for the charter that's more suited to the T&L. I think the charter's clearly structured and sensible - the 'sweeping generalisations' line in the charter probably covers a lot of ground. I would assume the mods are experienced enough to know how to walk the line between wearing their mod hat, being a teacher and acting with discretion.

The question of citing evidence is a difficult one as people won't always listen even when linked to it.

I'm not a teacher, but I think it's a very interesting forum. I'm surprised that posts seem to be under-reported given some of the trollbait/armchair expertise that can be thrown around.

rainbowtrout

Ya, I'm with everyone else. I've been posting on this forum regularly for a number of years and particularly in the last year or two, T&L has turned into a major troll fest and it's not tolerated in any other forum on boards as much as here in my opinion.

At this stageI expect to see some trolling (while it shouldn't be tolerated) in threads about pay cuts and job losses... the anti public sector sentiment is high on boards, but when teachers are coming on here to ask about disciplinary methods, teaching strategies, advice about getting a job, it's sad to see a fairly innocuous thread descend into a slanging match about how crap all teachers are and how cushy we have it, three or four posts in. There are some regular trolls on this forum and it seems like they sit pressing F5 waiting for a new thread they can troll in T&L just for the sake of it, usually threads where they would have no business offering an opinion E.g. 'Any one have any good strategies for teaching a mixed ability class' etc etc.
- and they rarely get a ban.


On a more positive note, if we are only allowed 3 stickies in the forum and one has to be the charter, and judging by the number of posts on the PGDE one, it is a useful (it's not one I ever look at myself), then perhaps the third should be an 'Information for teachers' sticky with all the relevant links:

Teaching Council
List of Autoqualifications
INTO, TUI, ASTI
Link to payscales specifically
Link to CID entitlements documentation
Links to main websites where jobs are advertised
Resources: PDST/Subject associations etc

Remove the link to the jobs thread, I think it's a good idea but it's not used very often unfortunately and realistically given the fact that jobs have to be advertised, schools and VECs will have them on their own websites, Indo or Times, and educationcareers.ie or educationposts.ie, but a link to that thread could be left there.

Most of the new threads posted seeking information are related to one or more of the topics above.

Also perhaps a post with a list of links to the most commonly sought documents on education.ie and VECs websites etc.

Separate the links out into 4 or 5 separate posts in the sticky: Qualifications info, Union info, Contracts and Jobs, Teaching Posts/Vacancies, Teaching Resources.

noodler

I take all of the above onboard.

However, I posted a perfectly valid piece of information from the Irish Examiner (Nial Murray - Education Correspondent) yesterday which says:

Nearly 2,000 earn between 85,000 and 115,000

Over 30,000 teachers (primary and secondary) earn between 51,000-85,000

Over 14,000 earn between 41,000 and 51,000

Only 4,000 earn less than 41,000

*These figures exclude VECs

Now, the above point isn't specifically attacking anybody here but I thought it very useful information to bear in mind in a thread about the current conferences in which some of the speakers are making very insensitive remarks about salaries give what many are going through in the current climate.

I was immediately told the media was making it up!

Feeona

I don't see the point of haranguing posters for their pay details, it's unbelievable bad manners. I'm sure no-one would like to be asked about their pay in the real world, so why not the same here? Of course educational pay is public, but that doesn't mean I personally have to divulge what I'm earning on a week to week basis. That's why my payslip is addressed to me and no-one else! So why not direct those asking questions about pay to the payscales link with a message saying that personal questions about individual pay are not allowed, or have it as part of the charter.

Same goes for any personal info about a poster. If one wants personal info about a teacher/lecturer's working day, they better be ready to reciprocate or at the very least divulge what they do for a living. It comes down to basic manners. I wouldn't dare demand (people ask-trolls demand) info from a poster about their background unless I was prepared to divulge some of mine. Most posters give a little of their background without much ado and it helps to set a scene for discussion. I've often seen posters in this forum being asked something of their background and they have no problem giving it because they realise it'll better serve the discussion. No point in a non teacher coming in here looking for advice, and all they get is IEP's, team teaching, differentiation, LS/RT etc in response!

Toto Wolfcastle

The pay scale is in the public domain, therefore it's fair game for discussion.

If someone asks you for personal information you do not have to answer. Similarly, if you do not want to discuss your pay you do not have to. Just don't respond. I worked in a school where another teacher would ask people how much they were earning after various cuts and levies. We just didn't tell him.

Can I ask again that we don't get into specifics in this thread. Thanks.

I'm not ignoring the other posts btw. I'll have a proper look at this thread when I close it on Friday and respond then. Just wanted to make the above point.

E.T.

I don't have any problem with people discussing the pay scale in a rational manner. What's happening all of the time here is that people incorrectly pluck figures from articles, or link to out of date pay scales and refuse to accept that they are wrong.

If teachers point out that their facts are incorrect the debate just turns into a round and round argument, but these incorrect figures should not be allowed to remain in the thread.

Toto Wolfcastle

Fine, if someone reports incorrect figures then report it and don't respond. If you provide proof to the moderators that the figures are incorrect then we can deal with it without the thread descending into arguments about who's right and who's wrong. Think that's a fair solution.

rainbowtrout

noodler wrote: »

I take all of the above onboard.

However, I posted a perfectly valid piece of information from the Irish Examiner (Nial Murray - Education Correspondent) yesterday which says:

Nearly 2,000 earn between 85,000 and 115,000

Over 30,000 teachers (primary and secondary) earn between 51,000-85,000

Over 14,000 earn between 41,000 and 51,000

Only 4,000 earn less than 41,000

*These figures exclude VECs

Now, the above point isn't specifically attacking anybody here but I thought it very useful information to bear in mind in a thread about the current conferences in which some of the speakers are making very insensitive remarks about salaries give what many are going through in the current climate.

I was immediately told the media was making it up!

noodler, I don't want to drag the thread off topic so if mods want to make a new thread out of this that's fine.

I'm not going to post figures to refute or back up your claim, but assuming you're not a teacher and going on those figures, teachers on here get annoyed because it doesn't paint a full picture. The article you've posted would be a good example of what gets people annoyed - not having a dig at you personally. But just to give an example:

Those 2000 people on 85k+ are probably principals and deputy principals. Principals and DPs are classed as teachers and get paid on the teacher's scale with an allowance for their managerial role. Together that form's their principals/DPs salary. Regular teachers do not get that kind of salary. It's not mathematically possible. But this information is not included in the article.

VECs have been left out. I would hazard a guess that they make up 30-40% of schools in the country. However no figures are provided. If there were (pulls random figure from head) 50,000 teachers working for less than 41K in the VECs that would put a very different slant on the article, I'm not saying there are or there aren't but they haven't been included. Primary schools by their very nature skew results because a position can only be full hours in a primary school, you have one class group. If you were to separate out primary and secondary you would see a difference in the figures.


Not wishing for a debate, but just pointing out the very obvious holes in this information which gets my back up (and probably the same with other teachers). It's selective reporting.


If you saw the headline '40% unemployment rate in Ireland' you probably wouldn't believe it, but then spotted the asterisk which lead to

*this survey was only carried out in the town rainbowtrout lives in, population 2500, where 1000 people sign on each week (unfortunately fairly accurate )

you would go, that's not accurate. Many of the teaching stats, particularly about pay and conditions are presented in exactly the same way in the media, and it's something I think a lot of teachers would like to see less of on this forum.

E.T.

That's fair enough, thanks.

Toto Wolfcastle

Again, we are not getting into specifics in here. There is to be no further discussion of whether those figures are correct or not. This is about making improvements to the forum, not about whether the figures from another thread are accurate or not. I have posted about what should be done in the case of figures you believe to be incorrect. Let's just do that if it happens in the future.

Miss Lockhart

Noodler - I would just like to point out that you have managed to bring this thread off topic by bringing specifics about teacher pay into a discussion about the charter of this forum. Surely you can see that this is inappropriate. This is exactly what people are complaining about.

Bobblehead Panda wrote: »

The pay scale is in the public domain, therefore it's fair game for discussion.

That may be, but surely it is not fair game for discussion in every single thread about anything and everything to do with teaching?

It seems that it is not possible to have a discussion on this forum about anything to do with teaching without people bringing up their personal gripes with teachers and education. There are endless places on boards where rants about the public service and teachers in particular are welcomed - Politics and AH to name but two - so those coming here with their off topic rants are trolling, plain and simple.

On the fact that there are few posts reported in the forum, I think that is a combination of a few factors.

1. Firstly, as somebody else said, most people don't like to bother the mods all the time.
2. Secondly, I think it is obvious that this board is not actually used that much for discussion. The vast majority of threads are one off questions or queries - mostly about getting into teaching - there are very few in depth discussion about anything to do with teaching. Compare that with the other well known education message board - it's obvious there is a demand for discussion of education matters, just not a demand to discuss them on boards. People want to discuss education matters and share ideas without having to defend their pay, conditions and, as seen on another recent thread, even their choice of worksheets for a last minute sub class. Boards does not lend itself to this unfortunately. So the number of issues is kept to a minimum, as people simply avoid getting into it at all.

I also think there are too few mods for the forum - especially if people are being encouraged to report posts more often. The only mods are both also CMods so are obviously already busy anyway - not that they should or could be expected to be available at the drop of a hat or on top of every post asap.

I think it's a great pity that so many are discouraged from getting involved here. There's a wealth of expertise and experience available and we could all learn a lot here I'm sure.

TheDriver

and I am also getting disheartened by trolling and I have gotten to know a fair few names here. The minute you spot a new name, the unfortunate chances are its bashing of teachers.
I concur that I would be happy to report trolling posts but don't want to bother mods because you are busy people.
This forum has some amount of hijacking, its not funny, its like theres a link from the after hours forum to us if someone wants to lash out at public servants aka teachers.

evolving_doors

I'd agree that there is a fair amount of trolls here alright but then again if a non-teacher trots out a misconception ,then, because of the very ' public' and open nature of boards forums it might be a good service to the profession to hash out some of these misconceptions with such a poster. (as was exampled a few posts ago about the shady pay stats).

However in saying that, if the person doesn't accept or respond to the correct facts subsequently and continues to flame THEN they should be dealt with.

Also, I do enjoy reading parents or other non teachers views and debates, but have to say I've felt the wrath of alot of teachers when I took a ' non-teacher' standpoint .basically as miss lockheart alluded to earlier about the natureof this forum versus other teaching forums; it has a high degree of non-teachers popping in, for this reason I like the boards forum as it is at the frontline of p open debate whereas others are in their comfort zone bubble.

Sorry for waffling but I feel if ' non-teachers' are given a 'clip around the ear' very early then we are loosing out on good debate, which has informed my arguments with people in the offline world.

Miss Lockhart

But surely non-teachers can debate rationally without attacking teacher pay and conditions in every thread? There should be no need for the "clip around the ear"!

And I agree with you Armelodie - I also like the fact that here are plenty of opinons offered by parents and non-teachers and I also agree that the other forum is the poorer for not having those opinions.

But some balance has to be struck because at the moment it is not possible for teachers to share ideas about educational matters on boards without having to defend ther pay and conditions in every thread.

noodler

noodler wrote: »

Nearly 2,000 earn between 85,000 and 115,000

Over 30,000 teachers (primary and secondary) earn between 51,000-85,000

Over 14,000 earn between 41,000 and 51,000

Only 4,000 earn less than 41,000

*These figures exclude VECs

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Those 2000 people on 85k+ are probably principals and deputy principals. Principals and DPs are classed as teachers and get paid on the teacher's scale with an allowance for their managerial role. Together that form's their principals/DPs salary. Regular teachers do not get that kind of salary. It's not mathematically possible. But this information is not included in the article.

VECs have been left out. I would hazard a guess that they make up 30-40% of schools in the country.

Armelodie wrote: »

(as was exampled a few posts ago about the shady pay stats).

Now hold on just a second, and the moderators can feel free to give me a ticking off for this if they like but this is exactly what I am talking about.

The figures I posted show that majority of teachers (VEC excluded) earn over 50K. Now, the poster Rainbowtrout said that 2,000 on 81K+ doesn't apply to all teachers.....I think thats obvious, the table shows quite clearly that 2,000 is a small minority of the total.

But for the poster above, Armelodie, to come in and then dismiss the stats as "shady" is absolutely beyond the pale. All Rainbowtrout did is point out that the majorty of teachers are not on 81K...but the table says this already? The point remains that the majority earn over 50K.

This is a perfect example of a legitimate post being completely dismissed by somebody who has in interest in doing so.

evolving_doors

yes some of the off topic stuff is just crackers, maybe just delete the posters post but leave the empty post up so they're identifiable for the future.although I can appreciate the time taken for mods to do this and by then people have fed the flames.

evolving_doors

noodler wrote: »

Now hold on just a second, and the moderators can feel free to give me a ticking off for this if they like but this is exactly what I am talking about.

The figures I posted show that majority of teachers (VEC excluded) earn over 50K. Now, the poster Rainbowtrout said that 2,000 on 81K+ doesn't apply to all teachers.....I think thats obvious, the table shows quite clearly that 2,000 is a small minority of the total.

But for the poster above, Armelodie, to come in and then dismiss the stats as "shady" is absolutely beyond the pale. All Rainbowtrout did is point out that the majorty of teachers are not on 81K...but the table says this already? The point remains that the majority earn over 50K.

This is a perfect example of a legitimate post being completely dismissed by somebody who has in interest in doing so.

Sorry, didn't mean to say that the stats were shady, but that the presentation and juxtaposition of selected facts is shady. you have to admit that the general tenor of the article was selective and biassed against teachers.

noodler

Armelodie wrote: »

Sorry, didn't mean to say that the stats were shady, but that the presentation and juxtaposition of selected facts is shady. you have to admit that the general tenor of the article was selective and biassed against teachers.

I assure you the OP was in another locked thread was specifically to counter something one of the union reps said at the conferences.

I did not mean it to sound like an attack on the profession and I apologise if it came across that way.

Toto Wolfcastle

Right, now that the 'shady stats' thing has been clarified I think we can move on from that particular issue. There is to be no further mention of those figures or of any specific posts. We can discuss improvements without dragging up those figures again. The point has been made.

Toto Wolfcastle

Okay, as promised, I'm going to lock this and take a look at the suggestions. I'll be back with a response later. Thanks for all the input.

Toto Wolfcastle

Black Oil wrote: »

There's a line in the Aircraft & Aviation forum charter about no airline bashing and there is a conflict of interest declaration type thread in the Commuting and Transport forum.

I'm not too happy about going down this road. As you said, the part of the of the charter dealing with 'sweeping generalisations' works fine. The thing about teacher bashing is that some people in this forum seem to think that all criticism of teachers amounts to teacher bashing. This is not the case. People are entitled to their opinions and if they are posting sweeping statements, continuing to troll or refusing to react rationally then they can be dealt with. There is a difference between constructive criticism and teacher bashing.

Black Oil wrote: »

I would assume the mods are experienced enough to know how to walk the line between wearing their mod hat, being a teacher and acting with discretion.

I believe that I am. Apart from that, more often than not when I am moderating I am sitting next to an admin and sometimes run my decisions past him if I am not sure.

Black Oil wrote: »

I'm surprised that posts seem to be under-reported given some of the trollbait/armchair expertise that can be thrown around.

I am too. People seem to prefer to react on thread when maybe sometimes reporting and not responding would be better.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

On a more positive note, if we are only allowed 3 stickies in the forum and one has to be the charter, and judging by the number of posts on the PGDE one, it is a useful (it's not one I ever look at myself), then perhaps the third should be an 'Information for teachers' sticky with all the relevant links:

Teaching Council
List of Autoqualifications
INTO, TUI, ASTI
Link to payscales specifically
Link to CID entitlements documentation
Links to main websites where jobs are advertised
Resources: PDST/Subject associations etc

Remove the link to the jobs thread, I think it's a good idea but it's not used very often unfortunately and realistically given the fact that jobs have to be advertised, schools and VECs will have them on their own websites, Indo or Times, and educationcareers.ie or educationposts.ie, but a link to that thread could be left there.

Most of the new threads posted seeking information are related to one or more of the topics above.

Also perhaps a post with a list of links to the most commonly sought documents on education.ie and VECs websites etc.

Separate the links out into 4 or 5 separate posts in the sticky: Qualifications info, Union info, Contracts and Jobs, Teaching Posts/Vacancies, Teaching Resources.

We have a few important links in the charter but I can certainly move them to a thread of their own and make that the third sticky. Thanks for the suggestion,

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

It seems that it is not possible to have a discussion on this forum about anything to do with teaching without people bringing up their personal gripes with teachers and education. There are endless places on boards where rants about the public service and teachers in particular are welcomed - Politics and AH to name but two - so those coming here with their off topic rants are trolling, plain and simple.

We don't welcome rants about teachers here and will (and do) deal with them if they are brought to our attention.

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

On the fact that there are few posts reported in the forum, I think that is a combination of a few factors.


Firstly, as somebody else said, most people don't like to bother the mods all the time.

Reporting posts helps the mods, it doesn't bother them. We can't read all the threads and if posters are not willing to help us out by reporting posts then there's not much we can do. I would hope that following this thread people will start to report posts more often. Indeed, it has started already, and we are grateful for that. If you think that the post you are reporting is borderline, then report it anyway and let us decide. Sometimes a post is reported that needs no action but it doesn't take long for us to check.

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Secondly, I think it is obvious that this board is not actually used that much for discussion. The vast majority of threads are one off questions or queries - mostly about getting into teaching - there are very few in depth discussion about anything to do with teaching. Compare that with the other well known education message board - it's obvious there is a demand for discussion of education matters, just not a demand to discuss them on boards. People want to discuss education matters and share ideas without having to defend their pay, conditions and, as seen on another recent thread, even their choice of worksheets for a last minute sub class. Boards does not lend itself to this unfortunately. So the number of issues is kept to a minimum, as people simply avoid getting into it at all.

We have added an ADVICE prefix. When you start a thread looking for advice about teaching or classroom management or other things specific to teachers (rather than advice about how to become a teacher) you can add the prefix and this will show that only constructive advice is sought. I have put this in the charter, although I have to add that we have created an actual prefix. We'll see how this works.

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I also think there are too few mods for the forum - especially if people are being encouraged to report posts more often. The only mods are both also CMods so are obviously already busy anyway - not that they should or could be expected to be available at the drop of a hat or on top of every post asap.

The forum is relatively quiet despite the trolls. Two mods is plenty. At least one of us is usually online everyday. If people start reporting more posts and it gets too much we can certainly have a look at getting a new mod but at the moment there is no need. Btw being Edu CMod takes up very little time. The Edu forums are fairly well behaved.

There have been 47 reported posts in the last 6 months in this forum. 18 of them were reported in the last week. This is a tiny amount, especially when you consider that some of the 47 are accounted for by spam.

From my point of view, this forum attracts trolls. I'm quite happy to come down hard on trolls. If people feel that we have been too lenient then I accept that and I am willing to work on that.

I am also quite willing to come down hard on people who resort to bickering, backseat modding, commenting on spelling and grammar or other things that are against the charter. That sort of stuff (which comes from both teachers and non-teachers) derails threads and is a major headache to deal with.

Taking my mod hat off, I can understand that it is hard for people to have to deal with people constantly talking about teacher pay, holidays, etc. I'm a teacher myself and I have obviously come across people who have opinions about teachers that I don't necessarily agree with. I tend to ignore articles or radio programmes which deal with teachers. I don't discuss teacher pay and holidays with anyone. I don't get involved in threads here about pay and conditions. I find that it makes life easier when you realise that there are some people who will never see things the way you see them. If someone is posting here and refusing to take on board what you say in a rational way, then report them (if they continue to do so) and ignore them on thread. I find that if you engage with trolls then you are only giving them what they want. If you call them a troll you give them ammunition. Report and move on. It's like in school when you come across the odd student who thinks it's hilarious to make a humming sound to annoy you. If you ignore it they get bored. If you react to it you are giving them what they want.

There are plenty of posters in this forum who are not teachers who are willing to discuss issues in education in a rational matter. Respond to these people and ignore the trolls. I think that if people do this the forum will run smoother. It's our job to moderate this forum but I can tell you that it makes it a hell of a lot more difficult for us when posters react to trolls in the way they have been doing. Trolls, in particular clever trolls, are difficult enough to deal with without people adding to it.

If we all take responsibility for our posting, and if the moderators come down harder on trolls as per the the request of the posters in this thread, I think this forum will become a much more pleasant place to post.

Thanks to everyone for their input here. It has been a great help.

If anyone wishes to discuss any of the above further then they can PM me.