4th Champions League spot for FA Cup winners

Will I Amnt

Following on from a discussion in another thread and the opinion of Michel Platini,what do the good people of the soccer forum think of this.

Instead of the top 4 league places qualifying for the Champions League,it should be the top 3 and the FA Cup winners

It has it's pros and it's cons.
I personally would be against it as I think the 4 best teams in the country should be representing the league and there's no better indication of that than the league standings.
Also there has been FA Cup finals in recent years where both teams have already qualified for the Champions League.What happens then??

What happens if the allocation is cut to 3 positions from poor performance of English teams in Europe (possibly from allowing inferior teams through).
Does that mean only 2 from the league and 1 from the cup??

Anyway,what's your opinion and why??



Edit: Poll added.

Paul Tergat

Best 4 highest finishers in the league should represent the league in europe.

pebbles21

I think it should go to the winners of the Europa cup,if they havnt already qualified

IsThisIt???

In a way i think it's a great idea because it would make the FA cup so much more interesting, transforming it from an already prestigious trophy that is well regarded into a huge competition that has one of the biggest prizes in football at the end of it.

However having said that, I feel it would be very harsh on any team that manages to come 4th in a league as competitive as the Premier League, not to qualify for the Champions League.

Also there is a danger that certain clubs would rule out the possibility of coming in the Premiership top 3, so would focus on the FA cup, making the premiership less competitive.

So in the end, as fun as the idea could be, I think it would be best to leave things as they are.

Will I Amnt

pebbles21 wrote: »

I think it should go to the winners of the Europa cup,if they havnt already qualified

Now that's something I would agree with.

Leiva

Nay

I am a big supporter of such a change .

It would give back something to the fans in that not so long ago the game was all about winning Silverwear and titles , but the CL has diluted that because now the holy grail is CL qualification which the majority of teams/fans will not see any silverwear from .

It's a sad day for football when CL qualification gets worn like a badge when a cracking tournament like the FA Cup has it's appeal weakened.

Just imagine the intensity of FA Cup games if it's not only the cup you take home but also a place in the CL .
It would be like a mini CL tournament within the PL
Not to mention all the surprises the FA Cup throws up when a lesser team goes on a run .

I hope Platini gets his way .

Edit from original post : If the FA Cup winner is already in the Top three then the 4th place gets the 4th CL spot.

Will I Amnt

IsThisIt??? wrote: »

Also there is a danger that certain clubs would rule out the possibility of coming in the Premiership top 3, so would focus on the FA cup, making the premiership less competitive.

That's another thing that would concern me as more than half the league are ruled out of the top 4 by Christmas.
Resting players for league games because you have a cup game can affect so many other teams.

Pride Fighter

Nay

I'd be in favour. As 2 of the teams would be 'champions' of something. Football should be about winning trophies and those that win trophies should be rewarded. It would also make the league fairer and more interesting. I would even go as far as to say the runners up get the CL spot if the winner is already qualified. Could you imagine Portsmouth, Milwall, Stoke and Everton in the CL? Would mean that football is no longer the sterile same 4 or 5 clubs doing well and being genuinely interesting, like it was in the 70's and 80's.

Giggsy11

Top 4 should get the place for their season long efforts not some lucky team who draws lower league teams to reach as far as they could and win one or 2 odd games to win the cup.

cgpg5

Nay

I'd be in favour of it. If the FA Cup winner is already in top 4 then top 4 qualify simple.

Perhaps a better way would be a two legged play off between FA cup winner and 4th place? I think it needs to be implemented in some way though, it would provide great incentive to win the FA cup and would make it a better comp all round imo.

wonderfullife

It has the potential to devalue the Champions League greatly though. Look across Europe, the likes of Man Utd, Barca, Real, Lyon, Bayern etc....they know year in, year out they will qualify for the champions league, so stretching their resources to the cup will never be a priority.

I don't know how you can potentially justify the likes of Portsmouth getting in the champions league on the basis of winning 6 or 7 matches in the cup. You could end up with 5 or 6 teams in the CL who have absolutely zero chance of progressing beyond the group stages.

Leiva

Nay

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I'd be in favour. As 2 of the teams would be 'champions' of something. Football should be about winning trophies and those that win trophies should be rewarded. It would also make the league fairer and more interesting. I would even go as far as to say the runners up get the CL spot if the winner is already qualified. Could you imagine Portsmouth, Milwall, Stoke and Everton in the CL? Would mean that football is no longer the sterile same 4 or 5 clubs doing well and being genuinely interesting, like it was in the 70's and 80's.

Exactly !

And Platini may give out about too much money etc in the game , and trying to introduce UFFP , but the current CL setup pulls the game in the direction that he doesn't want , and only galvanises the current monopoly every year .

Leiva

Nay

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Top 4 should get the place for their season long efforts not some lucky team who draws lower league teams to reach as far as they could and win one or 2 odd games to win the cup.

I don't get ya ?

cgpg5

Nay

wonderfullife wrote: »

It has the potential to devalue the Champions League greatly though. Look across Europe, the likes of Man Utd, Barca, Real, Lyon, Bayern etc....they know year in, year out they will qualify for the champions league, so stretching their resources to the cup will never be a priority.

I don't know how you can potentially justify the likes of Portsmouth getting in the champions league on the basis of winning 6 or 7 matches in the cup. You could end up with 5 or 6 teams in the CL who have absolutely zero chance of progressing beyond the group stages.

Nicosia made the CL quarters this year. Everyone has a chance.

That Pompey team beat Utd in OT that year and imo would've been quite competitive in Europe. They were a tough side to beat.

I feel a play off though between FA cup winners and 4th is the best way

TheTownie

cgpg5 wrote: »

I'd be in favour of it. If the FA Cup winner is already in top 4 then top 4 qualify simple.

Perhaps a better way would be a two legged play off between FA cup winner and 4th place? I think it needs to be implemented in some way though, it would provide great incentive to win the FA cup and would make it a better comp all round imo.

A two legged play-off to have the right to play in a CL two-legged play-off?

Enough games in a season as it is tbh.

G.K.

The downside to letting the winners of the cup in, is, if the cup is consistently won by weaker teams who then don't even qualify for the group stages, the EPL's coefficient will go down and England could get just 3 places in the CL in subsequent years.

Will I Amnt

Leiva wrote: »

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Top 4 should get the place for their season long efforts not some lucky team who draws lower league teams to reach as far as they could and win one or 2 odd games to win the cup.

I don't get ya ?

It's theoretically possible to win the FA cup without playing a Premier League team.

Giggsy11

Leiva wrote: »

I don't get ya ?

Premier league teams compete against 19 other premier league teams and worth every bit of success they get by finishing 4th.

Now let us assume some PL club makes it to finals but by luck drew only lower league teams all the way to the finals/Semi finals. How can anyone say team that played only lower league teams deserve to play in champions league rather than the team that competed against 19 best teams in the country?

Champions league is for best teams from the league and the teams that finishes in top4 are the best teams and they deserve it.

Mitch Connor

4 Spots to the League.

1. The best 4 teams in England will be the top 4 in the league.
2. In order to keep the 4 spots, the teams have to do well in Europe. Best chance of that with best 4 teams.

If you were to give it to the Cup winners (or the runners up if winner is in top 3) you would have got the following over the last 10 years.

Stoke City - would get mullered imo.
Portsmouth - would have been destroyed.
Everton - always start the season slowly, would they have done anything?
Portsmouth - would have been destroyed.
Chelsea and Man United in the final - one of the semi finalists?
West Ham - no idea how they would have done.
Arsenal and Man United in the final - one of the semi finalists?
Millwall - would have been destroyed.
Southampton - would have been destroyed.

So.... giving the FA Cup a CL space would, ultimately (imo) mean a reduction in the amount of CL spaces available.

Keep it to the league.

cgpg5

Nay

TheTownie wrote: »

A two legged play-off to have the right to play in a CL two-legged play-off?

Enough games in a season as it is tbh.

They'll live they're professionals. Championship teams have to play 46 games and then some have to play play off games on top of that.

Leiva

Nay

cambo2008 wrote: »

It's theoretically possible to win the FA cup without playing a Premier League team.

Yes and ?

That's the luck of the draw which we all abide by , no ?

Leiva

Nay

Mitch Connor wrote: »

4 Spots to the League.

1. The best 4 teams in England will be the top 4 in the league.
2. In order to keep the 4 spots, the teams have to do well in Europe. Best chance of that with best 4 teams.

If you were to give it to the Cup winners (or the runners up if winner is in top 3) you would have got the following over the last 10 years.

Stoke City - would get mullered imo.
Portsmouth - would have been destroyed.
Everton - always start the season slowly, would they have done anything?
Portsmouth - would have been destroyed.
Chelsea and Man United in the final - one of the semi finalists?
West Ham - no idea how they would have done.
Arsenal and Man United in the final - one of the semi finalists?
Millwall - would have been destroyed.
Southampton - would have been destroyed.

So.... giving the FA Cup a CL space would, ultimately (imo) mean a reduction in the amount of CL spaces available.

Keep it to the league.

So let the stronger get stronger ??, and copper fasten even more so the "elite" of Europe so no one can compete .

It's the reason it now takes a sugar daddy to pump billions in to crack into the elite .

All because there is no avanue for the small fish to get into the big money game.

That's fundamentally bad for the game as a whole.

newbie2

Cup Winners Cup FTW

Pride Fighter

Nay

wonderfullife wrote: »

I don't know how you can potentially justify the likes of Portsmouth getting in the champions league on the basis of winning 6 or 7 matches in the cup. You could end up with 5 or 6 teams in the CL who have absolutely zero chance of progressing beyond the group stages.

They would get in because they are champions of something, they actually won a trophy. Winning the FA cup and finishing 15th is better than finishing 3rd and winning nothing. Football is about winning and being a champion. And the competition is called the champions league. Remember the 70's and 80's? Malmo, PSV, Nottingham Forest, Aston Villa all won the European Cup. Allowing cup winners would benefit the likes of the medium sized club, and not the same old boring 3 or 4 clubs from Italy, Germany, France, Spain and England.

Paul Tergat

Leiva wrote: »

So let the stronger get stronger ??, and copper fasten even more so the "elite" of Europe so no one can compete .

It's the reason it now takes a sugar daddy to pump billions in to crack into the elite .

All because there is no avanue for the small fish to get into the big money game.

That's fundamentally bad for the game as a whole.

Newcastle are giving it a real good go trying to break the elite. Spurs have and are doing it over a period of time. The avenue is there and it can be done

eagle eye

Nay

I'd like to see the FA Cup winners and the League Cup winners get into it every year. If the winner is a team that qualifies through the league then the next team in the league gets in. No runners-up in cup competitions getting a Champion's league spot.

I think it opens up more avenues for teams to possibly get in and gives the opportunity for those clubs to get a big cash injection without the aid of a sugar daddy.

The league has been crippled by the Champion's league over the years. Its been a case of every club in the Premier league outside of the select few being feeders for those clubs. Thats not what the game is supposed to be about imo.

Leftist

new low. if liverpool don't get top 4 they can't qualify. end of.

Should be reduced if anything to 2,3 teams max per league.

stovelid

wonderfullife wrote: »

You could end up with 5 or 6 teams in the CL who have absolutely zero chance of progressing beyond the group stages.

How terribly outrageous that would be.

Helix

pebbles21 wrote: »

I think it should go to the winners of the Europa cup,if they havnt already qualified

bit unfair to take england's 4th CL spot and give it to europa winners no?

Helix

wonderfullife wrote: »

You could end up with 5 or 6 teams in the CL who have absolutely zero chance of progressing beyond the group stages.

you could also look at it another way and say that it'd make more teams financially able to compete at the top, and potentially open the door for an overall improvement of leagues across europe which would, in turn, increase the quality of the champions league long term

dsmythy

I can picture it now. Newcastle do a great job finishing 4th but the spot goes to Liverpool for winning the FA Cup. Change of the guard hey?

No cup should be devalued by making it the route to another perceived greater competition. I include the Europa League in that. You would may as well rename them the Champions League Qualification Cup.

Leiva

Nay

Why are people even mentioning specific teams ?

Will I Amnt

It's my understanding that the inception of the Champions League was an attempt to pit the elite teams in Europe against each other.

If this idea was the basis for qualification over the last 10 years or so we could very easily have had Portsmouth,Millwall,West Ham etc going into the competition.
Hardly the elite of European football,no offence to any of the teams mentioned.

eagle eye

Nay

cambo2008 wrote: »

It's my understanding that the inception of the Champions League was an attempt to pit the elite teams in Europe against each other.

If this idea was the basis for qualification over the last 10 years or so we could very easily have had Portsmouth,Millwall,West Ham etc going into the competition.
Hardly the elite of European football,no offence to any of the teams mentioned.

I'd fancy the chances of those teams against the likes of CFR Cluj, Zilina, BATE Borisov, Oțelul Galați etc. They are hardly the elite of Europe either but they have all been in the Champion's league in recent years.

Morricone

Are people actually retarded? We're not talking about this season, next season would be the earliest this could be implemented.

I'd be in favour, however it would have to be winners only to qualify, no place for the runners up. This would keep the quality high while allowng smaller clubs an avenue from which they can reach the champions league.

dan1895

Champions League for champions only!

Will I Amnt

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd fancy the chances of those teams against the likes of CFR Cluj, Zilina, BATE Borisov, Oțelul Galați etc. They are hardly the elite of Europe either but they have all been in the Champion's league in recent years.

Fair point but those teams you mentioned came through a qualifying system that would have involved beating a fairly decent level of opponent to get there.

There obviously has to be some system to qualify and at the moment it works in keeping out the poorer teams for the most part.
There shouldn't be a route in for teams in the second or third tier of domestic football.

jive

No, the FA cup is based largely on the luck of the draw and it is unfair to disregard a season's efforts for a domestic trophy filled with teams from lower leagues. Chelsea beat QPR, Portsmouth, Leicester and Birmingham to reach the semi finals. Spurs beat Cheltenham, Stevenage, Bolton and Watford. So to reach the semi's both teams beat lower league clubs and 2 relegation candidates from the premier league. In the final they will have to play 7th or 8th placed clubs (clubs with 12-16 points less than them in the league). No offence to Liverpool or Everton as both are good clubs but Liverpool are just 4 points off 14th position in the league (they're better than that, but it's reflective of their overall season).

In 2007/2008 3 of the semi-finalists weren't even in the top flight. They simply wouldn't compete at European level and wouldn't make it through qualifying. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather see a team in 4th in the league who were competitive over the course of a season rather than a team who turned up for a few cup games largely based on who got lucky with home/away draws and the teams they got. Chelsea for example this year are competing for 4th in the premier league with Spurs/Arsenal. Spurs were quarter finalists in the champions league last time. Arsenal were unlucky to go out in the last 16 this year, usually make quarters. Chelsea are semi-finalists and not yet out of it. I'd rather go see teams compete than see a lesser team go based on a handful of games in a cup.

Usually one of the big teams wins the FA cup, but if a lesser team were to win it it wouldn't make it 'interesting' to see them in Europe or more exciting because they simply wouldn't be able to compete at that level.

eagle eye

Nay

jive wrote: »

Usually one of the big teams wins the FA cup, but if a lesser team were to win it it wouldn't make it 'interesting' to see them in Europe or more exciting because they simply wouldn't be able to compete at that level.

It would make it interesing imo. To see a club like Swansea or Blackpool get there would be awesome and not just to see how they do in the competition but also to see if they can make their club even better with the injection of cash they would get from it and the fact that players would be interested in playing for them that wouldn't otherwise even give them a second thought.

L'prof

To be honest, I think it's perfectly fine the way it is. I would however be open to distributing the Champions League money throughout the league to help the smaller teams improve.

monkey9

Letting the Cup Winners into the Champions League would devalue that competition. The standard of quality would drop if Cup Winners entering it were the norm!

monkey9

Leftist wrote: »

new low. if liverpool don't get top 4 they can't qualify. end of.

Should be reduced if anything to 2,3 teams max per league.

The f*ck you talking about Liverpool for?

Drexel

eagle eye wrote: »

It would make it interesing imo. To see a club like Swansea or Blackpool get there would be awesome and not just to see how they do in the competition but also to see if they can make their club even better with the injection of cash they would get from it and the fact that players would be interested in playing for them that wouldn't otherwise even give them a second thought.

While 10 or 15 million would be great for the likes of Blackpool or Swansea, it would more then likely be a once off unless they win the cup again the following year. It's not goina help them improve as much as you think. And one year of CL football won't make players think Blackpool aRe a top team and sign for them.

Leave it as the top four. It's not like teams arent trying to win the FA cup as it is. Spurs and Everton both rested players today for their match this weekend.

Al Capwned

Leiva wrote: »

Yes and ?

That's the luck of the draw which we all abide by , no ?

yes it is, and there's no way that a team should get to the CL based on a lucky draw in a domestic cup competition.
I am completely against this. There must be something in the water in FIFA/UEFA, cos some of Platini's ideas are getting as ridiculous as those of Blatters. This it's a complete non runner, and as other posters have said, could easily lead to a reduction of the number of places available to premier league clubs.

~Rebel~

alproctor wrote: »

yes it is, and there's no way that a team should get to the CL based on a lucky draw in a domestic cup competition.
I am completely against this. There must be something in the water in FIFA/UEFA, cos some of Platini's ideas are getting as ridiculous as those of Blatters. This it's a complete non runner, and as other posters have said, could easily lead to a reduction of the number of places available to premier league clubs.

You can't win a cup with luck. When it comes down to it, you play either the best teams in the country, or the teams who have beaten the best in the country.

it's not like there is this list of erroneous results...Lets look at the last 20 winners:
Man City
Chelsea
Chelsea
Portsmouth
Chelsea
Liverpool
Arsenal
Man U
Man U
Arsenal
Liverpool
Chelsea
Man U
Arsenal
Chelsea
Man U
Everton
Man U
Arsenal
Arsenal

So from that, the only outsiders who would have qualified in 20 years are Everton and Portsmouth, and to a small degree, some of the early Chelsea victories, but they had some great exciting teams then too, prior to the money.

So, at the end of the day, we'd have added excitement and value in the cup, while actually pretty much maintaining the standard in the Champions League. And, considering how obviously difficult it is to win the cup, from the above, if an outsider team does it they deserve their reward!

Red Crow

~Rebel~ wrote: »

You can't win a cup with luck. When it comes down to it, you play either the best teams in the country, or the teams who have beaten the best in the country.

it's not like there is this list of erroneous results...Lets look at the last 20 winners:
Man City
Chelsea
Chelsea
Portsmouth
Chelsea
Liverpool
Arsenal
Man U
Man U
Arsenal
Liverpool
Chelsea
Man U
Arsenal
Chelsea
Man U
Everton
Man U
Arsenal
Arsenal

So from that, the only outsiders who would have qualified in 20 years are Everton and Portsmouth, and to a small degree, some of the early Chelsea victories, but they had some great exciting teams then too, prior to the money.

So, at the end of the day, we'd have added excitement and value in the cup, while actually pretty much maintaining the standard in the Champions League. And, considering how obviously difficult it is to win the cup, from the above, if an outsider team does it they deserve their reward!

IF the F.A. Cup is to be allocated a CL spot the following teams would of got a CL place by virtue of the first team qualifying through the league or could of qualified had the winner finished in the top four:

Stoke
Portsmouth
Everton
Cardiff
West Ham
Millwall
Aston Villa
Newcastle
Southampton
Sheffield Wednesday
Middlesbrough


No offence but that is diluting the Champions League and at the end of it all UEFA know this too. They don't want these teams to be here.

I wouldn't mind seeing England's teams reduced to three teams in order to give a 'smaller' league a CL spot.

_blank_

Why are people withering on about the FA Cup Runners up?

The CC Runners up don't qualify for the EL if the Winners are already in via the league.

So, if the FA Cup Winners are already in the CL via a Top 3 Finish, then move the spot along to 4th, give an EL place to the FA Cup Runners Up, or if they are already in via the league, then move the EL Cup spot down a league place too.

stesaurus

Nay

Duplicate

stesaurus

Nay

Eli Manning wrote: »

IF the F.A. Cup is to be allocated a CL spot the following teams would of got a CL place by virtue of the first team qualifying through the league:

Stoke
Portsmouth
Everton
Cardiff
West Ham
Millwall
Aston Villa
Newcastle
Southampton
Sheffield Wednesday
Middlesbrough


No offence but that is diluting the Champions League and at the end of it all UEFA know this too. They don't want these teams to be here.

I wouldn't mind seeing England's teams reduced to three teams in order to give a 'smaller' league a CL spot.

You're looking at it the wrong way. If this was to be implemented those previous teams to get to finals would become more of an anomaly. With Champions League qualification on offer the bigger teams would take it far more seriously.
Personally I'd love it. The competition would go back to what I remember it from when I was a kid. Massive with players working their ass off to win it instead of the damp squib its become.
Last proper final was 96, fact!:D

KeithAFC

It will never happen because even if you did have "average" teams getting in from winning the domestic cup in their respective league, there is still that "risk" of them actually going far and you could end up with say Getafe playing Man Utd or Barcelona in the CL quarter final. It would become a joke.

Red Crow

Des wrote: »

Why are people withering on about the FA Cup Runners up?

The CC Runners up don't qualify for the EL if the Winners are already in via the league.

So, if the FA Cup Winners are already in the CL via a Top 3 Finish, then move the spot along to 4th, give an EL place to the FA Cup Runners Up, or if they are already in via the league, then move the EL Cup spot down a league place too.

Because its entirely hypothetical and if the FA are to stupidly allocate a Champions League position to the FA Cup then they could easily offer the position to the runners up.