No funding for IRA victims thanks to former IRA members.

HamletOrHecuba

Absolutely shameful. The saddness in this man's voice speaks volumes.

FAIR does wonderful work among those who suffered the most during the troubles and stood their ground against horrible odds in South Armagh yet they are having their funding taken off them because of their success in putting across the reality experienced by those who upheld the law with one hand tied around their back. This isnt Irish Republicans adding insult to injury its them adding injury to injury.

votecounts

You are referring a group that recently tried to get a priest done on anti hatred charges and its leader has always been anti catholic, which is why he got such a good welcome in Dublin during the love ulster marches.
I for one won't be losing sleep over this.

tricky D

Not the first time funding has been revoked from or not granted to them, is it? They have a history of being anything but fair. More like sectarian, bigoted, backward-looking, unionist throwback surrounded by plenty of controversy. So, proper order in that case.

HamletOrHecuba

votecounts wrote: »

You are referring a group that recently tried to get a priest done on anti hatred charges and its leader has always been anti catholic, which is why he got such a good welcome in Dublin during the love ulster marches.
I for one won't be losing sleep over this.

Im referring to a group that is made of the relatives of those butchered at Kingsmills and Darkley. The Priest labeled Ulster British people Nazis- given what they have been through at the hands of his community I think regarding it as a "hate crime" is understandable.

Also being about extreme Irish irredentism does not equal being "anti-Catholic".

The riot in Dublin against him just showed why the Ulster British folk should resist a united Ireland to the last drop of their blood.

woodoo

I am not even going to click into that and listen to Willie Frazer. He is a raging bigot and a nasty man.

Pat D. Almighty

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

Absolutely shameful. The saddness in this man's voice speaks volumes.

FAIR does wonderful work among those who suffered the most during the troubles and stood their ground against horrible odds in South Armagh yet they are having their funding taken off them because of their success in putting across the reality experienced by those who upheld the law with one hand tied around their back. This isnt Irish Republicans adding insult to injury its them adding injury to injury.

I recommend that you do some research on this man first, before Kony 2012ing it.
Willie Frazer and his organisation FAIR claim to be a non-sectarian, non-political organisation to work in the interests of the innocent victims of terrorism in South Armagh, but REFUSE to entertain victims of non-republican violence.
Remember Love Ulster parade? It was an Orange hate-fest in a terrible disguise.
FAIRS funding was revoked for a good reason.

votecounts

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

Im referring to a group that is made of the relatives of those butchered at Kingsmills and Darkley. The Priest labeled Ulster British people Nazis- given what they have been through at the hands of his community I think regarding it as a "hate crime" is understandable.

Also being about extreme Irish irredentism does not equal being "anti-Catholic".

The riot in Dublin against him just showed why the Ulster British folk should resist a united Ireland to the last drop of their blood.[/QUOTE]
They can go to the uk if they want once there is a united ireland through decomcratic means not violence as you've advocated.

KeithAFC

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

Im referring to a group that is made of the relatives of those butchered at Kingsmills and Darkley. The Priest labeled Ulster British people Nazis- given what they have been through at the hands of his community I think regarding it as a "hate crime" is understandable.

Also being about extreme Irish irredentism does not equal being "anti-Catholic".

The riot in Dublin against him just showed why the Ulster British folk should resist a united Ireland to the last drop of their blood.

We have been doing that for 400 years. To live and die in Ulster.

But I do think it is time to move on from this. Willy Frazer is legit in what he is trying to do but sadly even the DUP aren't listening to him now.

HamletOrHecuba

KeithAFC wrote: »

We have been doing that for 400 years. To live and die in Ulster.

But I do think it is time to move on from this. Willy Frazer is legit in what he is trying to do but sadly even the DUP aren't listening to him now.

He certainly has a lot of guts.

Ive been to South Armagh and got threatened because of my English accent. The fact that he and the people he represents have stuck it out there for so long shows immense bravery.

Galwayguy35

KeithAFC wrote: »

We have been doing that for 400 years. To live and die in Ulster.

But I do think it is time to move on from this. Willy Frazer is legit in what he is trying to do but sadly even the DUP aren't listening to him now.

No, 400 years ago you took land that was never yours to begin with.

Chuck Stone

Willie Frazer is not be taken seriously for good reason. He has created his own little alternate reality where Unionists were Cowboys and Republicans were Indians.

Yawn.

HamletOrHecuba

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No, 400 years ago you took land that was never yours to begin with.

The majority of the Ulster British either bought their land or settled on empty land. Why are the majority of them in counties that were not part of the plantation?

sarumite

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

He certainly has a lot of guts.

Ive been to South Armagh and got threatened because of my English accent. The fact that he and the people he represents have stuck it out there for so long shows immense bravery.

I lived in England for many years and my Irish accent quite often got me in a spot of bother. It doesn't mean anything. The majority of English people I met were great and I certainly wasn't brave for continuing to live there. The above comments just flamebait and nothing else.

HamletOrHecuba

sarumite wrote: »

I lived in England for many years and my Irish accent quite often got me in a spot of bother. It doesn't mean anything. The majority of English people I met were great and I certainly wasn't brave for continuing to live there. The above comments just flamebait and nothing else.

You do realize that the Provisional IRA had massive support in South Armagh? So its similar to someone black being threatened with racial abuse in an area with massive National Front support. Also remember that the Kingsmill massacre and the Darkley Gospel Hall slaughter happened in South Armagh. These people have all lost loved ones and the majority of their neighbours believe those who murdered them were heroes. Look at the actual situation.

Chuck Stone

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

He certainly has a lot of guts.

His preponderance of guts is obviously starving his brain of oxygen.

Nodin

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

.

FAIR does wonderful work .................

Not really.

Victims group, Families Acting For Innocent Relatives (Fair) has had more than £800,000 in European Union grants revoked.
It follows an investigation into the organisation's tendering process.
Fair director Willie Frazer said there were some paperwork errors but every penny went straight to victims.
The Special EU Programmes Body said there were "major failures" in Fair's ability to adhere to the conditions associated with its funding allocation.
It said had no option but to revoke all financial assistance.
More than £800,000 was allocated to Fair over three years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11307108

Willie Frazer's Fair is being asked to give back more than &#163 wrote: »

OFMDFM, through the Community Relations Council, has been Fair's main funder for the past decade, paying it almost £1m.
Its investigations are looking at the purchase of Fair's offices in Markethill.
OFMDFM alleged the group did not provide sufficient evidence that it met the conditions of funding for the purchase of the premises.
OFMDFM has also raised questions relating to certain video material produced by Mr Frazer when he stood in the Westminster election in 2010.
The Fair website has links to a YouTube channel called Fair Media which contained his election broadcasts.
OFMDFM alleges the distinction between Willie Frazer's Fair Media broadcasts and the Fair victims group is unclear and is therefore in breach of funding rules.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15644147

Galwayguy35

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

You do realize that the Provisional IRA had massive support in South Armagh? So its similar to someone black being threatened with racial abuse in an area with massive National Front support. Also remember that the Kingsmill massacre and the Darkley Gospel Hall slaughter happened in South Armagh. These people have all lost loved ones and the majority of their neighbours believe those who murdered them were heroes. Look at the actual situation.

I dont see you mentioning the victims of Loyalist murderers, but indeed neither does your hero Frazer.

sarumite

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

You do realize that the Provisional IRA had massive support in South Armagh? So its similar to someone black being threatened with racial abuse in an area with massive National Front support. Also remember that the Kingsmill massacre and the Darkley Gospel Hall slaughter happened in South Armagh. These people have all lost loved ones and the majority of their neighbours believe those who murdered them were heroes. Look at the actual situation.

The IRA also bombed Manchester. The amount of people I met who blamed Irish people for that (and not just the IRA) may surprise you. I know the actual situation, not everyone in England did. I am still not going to make gross generalised statements and attribute bravery where none exists.

HamletOrHecuba

Nodin wrote: »

Not really.

Yes really- which is why the majority of the victims and relatives of innocent victims in South Armagh back and are involved in FAIR. The whole funding issue is an attempt to silence their voice.

HamletOrHecuba

sarumite wrote: »

The IRA also bombed Manchester. The amount of people I met who blamed Irish people for that (and not just the IRA) may surprise you. I know the actual situation, not everyone in England did. I am still not going to make gross generalised statements and attribute bravery where none exists.

5 members of Willie Frazer's family including his own father were murdered by the Provos.

RMD

Frazer is a bigoted hate causing tool. His desires of compensation for "innocent victims" only apply to those who were protestant and unionist. If he wants to campaign for compensation across the board regardless of who the victims were I'll listen to him, but until then I wont show an ounce of respect to him. He's known to associate with loyalists and has no problem antagonizing the nationalist community, shows the character of the man.

Nodin

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

Yes really- which is why the majority of the victims and relatives of innocent victims in South Armagh back and are involved in FAIR. The whole funding issue is an attempt to silence their voice.

I've just shown the facts to be otherwise.

john reilly

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

He certainly has a lot of guts.

Ive been to South Armagh and got threatened because of my English accent. The fact that he and the people he represents have stuck it out there for so long shows immense bravery.

immense stupidity
he knows he would never be harmed by republicans. they love the fact that he is one of a number of ulster unionist who brings shame and ridicule on his people. not only in ireland but throughout the world. also his sectarian bile and bigotted rants can be a useful recruitment aid. strange that a man so concerned for victims is such a big supporter of the security forces who where responsible for more victims than any other group

HamletOrHecuba

Nodin wrote: »

I've just shown the facts to be otherwise.

No you didnt...

"OFMDFM has also raised questions relating to certain video material produced by Mr Frazer when he stood in the Westminster election in 2010.
The Fair website has links to a YouTube channel called Fair Media which contained his election broadcasts."

tricky D

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

Look at the actual situation.

But just like FAIR, you are not interested in the actual situation, instead being very selective on one side only, which is the very reason they get no funding.

For every selective point you make on one side, there's another point on the other side. These arguments are a bit tedious these days. Thankfully most of us have moved on and look forward to a pretty peaceful future. Feel free to join us.

john reilly

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

5 members of Willie Frazer's family including his own father were murdered by the Provos.

maybe they where members of a terrorist organisation. such as the ruc or worse still the udr

HamletOrHecuba

john reilly wrote: »

immense stupidity
he knows he would never be harmed by republicans. they love the fact that he is one of a number of ulster unionist who brings shame and ridicule on his people. not only in ireland but throughout the world. also his sectarian bile and bigotted rants can be a useful recruitment aid. strange that a man so concerned for victims is such a big supporter of the security forces who where responsible for more victims than any other group

Not true. Listening to his videos has made empathize with his people a lot more than I used.

Second part is untrue. The IRA killed a good bit more to put it mildly than the Army, UDR or RUC.

Nodin

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

No you didnt...

"OFMDFM has also raised questions relating to certain video material produced by Mr Frazer when he stood in the Westminster election in 2010.
The Fair website has links to a YouTube channel called Fair Media which contained his election broadcasts."

....there are two articles linked, which reference far more than what you've just quoted. I suggest you go through both and get back to me.

sarumite

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

5 members of Willie Frazer's family including his own father were murdered by the Provos.

Past tense, the Provos are no longer active nor engage summary executions.

Nodin

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

.................they are having their funding taken off them because of their success in putting across the reality experienced by those who upheld the law with one hand tied around their back. .............

Odd, I thought they were a victim support group. Please explain the above.

HamletOrHecuba

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I dont see you mentioning the victims of Loyalist murderers, but indeed neither does your hero Frazer.

The Loyalist Paramilitaries only existed because of the refusal of the British government to deal properly with the PIRA. Look at how the Loyalists were happy to settle for the GFA which allows Sinn Fein to be in government when a good proportion of its leadership in Northern Ireland should be in jail at the very least. As brutal as they were they were a reaction to the problem and not the problem itself.

HamletOrHecuba

Nodin wrote: »

Odd, I thought they were a victim support group. Please explain the above.

They put across the reality of the experience of the victims of the UDR and RUC and their families. They give the innocent a voice.

dlofnep

Ah auld Willie Frazer... The same guy who blamed the victims of Bloody Sunday for their own deaths, even after the Saville Inquiry report was released. The guy is a pillock, and a sectarian bigot.

Nodin

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

They put across the reality of the experience of the victims of the UDR and RUC and their families. They give the innocent a voice.

They're actually only concerned with those targeted by republicans, unfortunately.

upheld the law with one hand tied around their back

What do you mean by the above?

sarumite

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

The Loyalist Paramilitaries only existed because of the refusal of the British government to deal properly with the PIRA. Look at how the Loyalists were happy to settle for the GFA which allows Sinn Fein to be in government when a good proportion of its leadership in Northern Ireland should be in jail at the very least. As brutal as they were they were a reaction to the problem and not the problem itself.

One could equally argue that PIRA were a reaction to the problems of gerrymandering and civil rights abuses in the 1960's. The fact is it really doesn't matter why either the PIRA or the loyalist paramilitaries existed, the fact is they existed.

john reilly

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

The Loyalist Paramilitaries only existed because of the refusal of the British government to deal properly with the PIRA. Look at how the Loyalists were happy to settle for the GFA which allows Sinn Fein to be in government when a good proportion of its leadership in Northern Ireland should be in jail at the very least. As brutal as they were they were a reaction to the problem and not the problem itself.

the problem was british control of part of ireland and the stupidity and arrogance of the unionists to think that the irish would lie down and take being treated as second class citizens

Sunnyisland

Hamlet Or Hecuba wrote: »

The Loyalist Paramilitaries only existed because of the refusal of the British government to deal properly with the PIRA. Look at how the Loyalists were happy to settle for the GFA which allows Sinn Fein to be in government when a good proportion of its leadership in Northern Ireland should be in jail at the very least. As brutal as they were they were a reaction to the problem and not the problem itself.

I think you sir are very confused as the reasons and situation in what state the six counties where governed and why & how the Provisonal IRA became into being.

dlofnep

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

As brutal as they were they were a reaction to the problem and not the problem itself.

Yeah, going around killing random Catholics wasn't a 'problem'? Right.. Loyalist paramilitaries killed the highest percentage of civilians, and strangely enough - they killed more Loyalist paramilitaries than Republican ones.

HamletOrHecuba

Nodin wrote: »

What do you mean by the above?

The security forces were not given a free hand to deal with Republicans.

You had Gerry Adams walking around the streets of Ulster and spreading his propaganda to foreign News teams.

Galwayguy35

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

The Loyalist Paramilitaries only existed because of the refusal of the British government to deal properly with the PIRA. Look at how the Loyalists were happy to settle for the GFA which allows Sinn Fein to be in government when a good proportion of its leadership in Northern Ireland should be in jail at the very least. As brutal as they were they were a reaction to the problem and not the problem itself.

Cold comfort to the victims of the shankill butchers.

HamletOrHecuba

dlofnep wrote: »

Yeah, going around killing random Catholics wasn't a 'problem'? Right.. Loyalist paramilitaries killed the highest percentage of civilians, and strangely enough - they killed more Loyalist paramilitaries than Republican ones.

What they did was evil- but remember that the IRA didnt wear uniforms. Outside of what individuals in the security forces handed over to them they had very little ability to gain intelligence on Republicans. They did though try at least to target the type of people who would have voted for Sinn Fein and/or supplied safe houses to the Provos.

HamletOrHecuba

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Cold comfort to the victims of the shankill butchers.

Indeed.

Though the people who ordered those murders are not sitting in Stormount now in government are they?

dlofnep

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

The security forces were not given a free hand to deal with Republicans.

Since when was it a crime to be a Republican, and since when did being a Republican automatically require intervention from security forces?

You have some nerve to talk about a free hand! Many an innocent person was locked up, without ever being convicted of a crime in the north. Internment must be something loyalists conveniently forget.

Chuck Stone

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

The PIRA only existed because of the brutal oppression of the civil rights movement by Unionism. As brutal as the PIRA were they were a reaction to the problem and not the problem itself.

Fixed your post there for you.

KeithAFC

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

What they did was evil- but remember that the IRA didnt wear uniforms. Outside of what individuals in the security forces handed over to them they had very little ability to gain intelligence on Republicans. They did though try at least to target the type of people who would have voted for Sinn Fein and/or supplied safe houses to the Provos.

It wasn't always for the sake of it like some say.

HamletOrHecuba

dlofnep wrote: »

Since when was it a crime to be a Republican, and since when did being a Republican automatically require intervention from security forces?

When being a Republican means carrying out and helping to maintain a terror campaign to steal Northern Ireland from the Ulster British majority it does.

Nodin

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

The security forces were not given a free hand to deal with Republicans.

.............

As far as I'm aware they were given vast amounts of resources. What do you mean by "free hand"?

sarumite

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

Indeed.

Though the people who ordered those murders are not sitting in Stormount now in government are they?

Is your argument that Loyalist paramilitaries were never elected to Stormont?

dlofnep

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

When being a Republican means carrying out and helping to maintain a terror campaign to steal Northern Ireland from the Ulster British majority it does.

Well, it's just as well that's not what being a Republican means. As for 'stealing' anything - people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I believe it was Britain that partitioned Ireland against the will of the majority and 'took' 6 counties. That is the only fact here.

HamletOrHecuba

realies wrote: »

I think you sir are very confused as the reasons and situation in what state the six counties where governed and why & how the Provisonal IRA became into being.

Working class members of the Ulster British community were also denied civil rights on a massive scale. Yes Northern Ireland doesnt have that pretty a history prior to the troubles; however blacks in the USA had it a lot worse than Nationalists in Northern Ireland- would you also have supported them going on a terrorist murder spree?

john reilly

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

What they did was evil- but remember that the IRA didnt wear uniforms. Outside of what individuals in the security forces handed over to them they had very little ability to gain intelligence on Republicans. They did though try at least to target the type of people who would have voted for Sinn Fein and/or supplied safe houses to the Provos.

intelligence and loyalists arent two words that anybody would put together. the real reason that the loyalist paramiltaries like uff, uvf, udr, lvf and ruc didnt kill more republicans is because they hadnt the brains or the guts.