Question about Christianity

Ellie2008

I decided to post this here and not the Christianity forum as I didn't want to offend.

I'm really struggling to see how people believe the Son of God aspect... So God so loved the world that he sent his ONLY son down to die for our sins. But are we not all God's children, or did he create and love one of us more? If he knew that his son would be killed does that not somehow undermine the free will of those who killed him. If his son knew for sure all along that he would be returned to his father in heaven how much of a sacrifice was dying, I think I'm missing something.....

wonderfulname

You're not missing anything, they are.

Dades

I was in Starbucks today with my kids and chatting to some a nice American couple about family (and rugby), when after talking about Paul O'Connell, the guy started going on about the sacrifice some guy (his words) had made on the cross for all of us... I changed the subject quick.

Hell, it was Good Friday I guess, and I had no interest in bringing forward my thoughts on the inherent flaws in his whole belief system.

Suffice to say, if you don't want to see them, they're not there.

strobe

Ellie2008 wrote: »

I decided to post this here and not the Christianity forum as I didn't want to offend.

I'm really struggling to see how people believe the Son of God aspect... So God so loved the world that he sent his ONLY son down to die for our sins. But are we not all God's children, or did he create and love one of us more? If he knew that his son would be killed does that not somehow undermine the free will of those who killed him. If his son knew for sure all along that he would be returned to his father in heaven how much of a sacrifice was dying, I think I'm missing something.....

They aren't made of glass over in the Christianity forum man. There's nothing particularly offensive in your post so I'm pretty sure they won't have any problem with the questions. The answers you get will be based on premises such as 'God is real' 'Jesus was his son' etc (obviously) but if you are genuinely interested in understanding why Christians believe 'the Son of God aspect' then you really will get lots of discussion and people willing to try and explain how and why they believe what they believe over yonder.

smokingman

I'm reminded of the recent pic in YLYL asking why someone with the power to come back to life would be viewed as making a sacrifice for dying for others. Surely that's no sacrifice at all and is more than disingenuous to imply it.

Lucy8080

pff...paul o connel.....just an apostle....you should have changed the subject to bod.....


you athiests have a problem with admitting a belief in bod...

ive picked up on it.

Hotblack Desiato

# Drop kick me Jesus through the goalposts of life... # :pac:






yeah, it was a real song

Sonics2k

Lucy8080 wrote: »

pff...paul o connel.....just an apostle....you should have changed the subject to bod.....


you athiests have a problem with admitting a belief in bod...

ive picked up on it.

Our BoD, who art in Leinster
Glorious be thy name
Your lineouts be won
Get that try, son

I've forgotten the rest of it

Hotblack Desiato

Dades wrote: »

Hell, it was Good Friday I guess, and I had no interest in bringing forward my thoughts on the inherent flaws in his whole belief system.

Mmm, yeah.
Some Americans don't seem to get that for all the impression of Irish conviviality etc., we just don't bring up politics or religion in public, many people would consider it rude or imposing, almost that it would be spoiling a good relaxing coffee / pint to bring up a 'serious' subject.
Of course our long, troubled, divided history has a lot to do with this.

I think one of the Lonely Planet books advises visitors strongly against political/religious discussion here...

Hotblack Desiato

Lucy8080 wrote: »

pff...paul o connel.....just an apostle....you should have changed the subject to bod.....


you athiests have a problem with admitting a belief in bod...

ive picked up on it.

When he retires, I hope he's resurrected, like Paul Scholes.

Doctor DooM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Our BoD, who art in Leinster
Glorious be thy name
Your lineouts be won
Get that try, son

I've forgotten the rest of it

but lead us not to six nations?

Zombrex

Ellie2008 wrote: »

I decided to post this here and not the Christianity forum as I didn't want to offend.

I'm really struggling to see how people believe the Son of God aspect... So God so loved the world that he sent his ONLY son down to die for our sins. But are we not all God's children, or did he create and love one of us more? If he knew that his son would be killed does that not somehow undermine the free will of those who killed him. If his son knew for sure all along that he would be returned to his father in heaven how much of a sacrifice was dying, I think I'm missing something.....

The Christian explanation for the resurrection can be likened to the Blivet optical illusion. Christians attempting to support the logic of the resurrection will take individual pieces and argue the soundness of the piece. For example, Jesus agreed to take our punishment for us. Or God loves and us and does not want us to suffer. Or God is just and must be true to his word.

Individually these can be argued relatively successfully (though substitution aspect is a bit different but certainly there are examples of people paying for other peoples crimes in history).

The whole thing becomes a nonsense though when you bring all these elements together and try and produce a coherent whole. Which is probably why in my experience Christians are very reluctant to do so, preferring again to simply argue the individual aspects in isolation.

Most likely Jesus' execution was something forced upon the early Christians after their leader was carted off to be killed for stirring up trouble, and they were forced to come up with an explanation for how their Messiah has just died that fitted with Jewish traditions. Blood sacrifice as a means of atonement for sins is a common notion in Judaism so it makes sense that they would view it in these terms. By that stage though the idea that Jesus was the son of God was probably already established in the cult, so they could not massage the inherent paradox between a substitution and Jesus being God.