Prime Julio Cesar Chavez vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr/Manny Pacquiao

Henno30

Not at the same time obviously.

walshb

AT 140-147?

At 147 I think Manny is a nightmare for JCC. Too fast, every bit as fit, a good enough chin, and enough power and pop to really keep Julio honest. Manny's feet are also fast enough to move in and out all night, blustering flurries as he gets in and out. I see this a clear win for Manny. Julio's only chance is to wear Manny down, and Manny has shown a serious engine and a very good beard at 147 lbs, plus he'd be firing heavy and fast shots at JCC all night.

JCC has the better chance at the more conservative and less powerful hitter that is Floyd. Juilo will get to Floyd and will have a chance to work him over without as much return fire. Floyd still a favourite I feel, as his D should avoid a lot, and his crisp counters, and decent pop could mark Chavez up.

Simple: JCC is an all time great, but at 147 he wasn't all that good. He was just a little slow at that weight, a little plodding. Too much so for Manny and Floyd.

Henno30

I didn't want to limit it to a weight but @140 or below, definitely not 147.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

I didn't want to limit it to a weight but @140 or below, definitely not 147.

At 140 I will pick Floyd more comfortably than at 147.

Manny at 140 I would also back.

Maravilla33

JCC beats Manny for me and stops him in the process. I think a world class inside fighter gives Manny kittens. The relentless pressure JCC puts him under and the volume of punches would slow Manny down and eventually stop him. Manny's been stopped by body shots before and even the mummy like Margarito seemed to get his attention with some body shots. Not many than can throw as mean a left hook to the body as Chavez. Manny's footwork is good but not great and he just wouldn't be slick or elusive enough to keep JCC of him.

PBF vs JCC is a great fight and much closer in terms of the result. Meldrick Taylor even in defeat showed that JCC could be outboxed. PBF much more disciplined and defensively minded wouldn't let a lead slip like Taylor did and could see him boxing his way to a UD. PBF was a decent puncher at super feather and lightweight and had a good enough dig to earn JCCs respect. This would be the ultimate bull vs matador style fight with the matador winning it for me.

walshb

PBF also would not take 1/10 of the shots Mel took. Frankie Randall outboxed JCC. Manny can too. I think you underestimate Manny's toughness, hardensss and chin.

JCC would have to be on Manny all the time. Manny has the fast feet, and also he will be throwing many many shots. JCC won't simply walk thru them.

Margarito is a mummy, but a big man. A deal bigger than JCC, and Manny ate him alive.

Now, at 140 I still feel that Manny will be overall too quick. JCC only chance is a KO, or TKO, and Manny has not shown a weak beard or a bad engine at 140 and above, or below.

Styles make fights, and as much as I love JCC, guys like Oscar, Pryor, Mosley and Manny; tough and skilled and very fast men, with power, are bad for him.

cowzerp

Maravilla33 wrote: »

JCC beats Manny for me and stops him in the process. I think a world class inside fighter gives Manny kittens. The relentless pressure JCC puts him under and the volume of punches would slow Manny down and eventually stop him. Manny's been stopped by body shots before and even the mummy like Margarito seemed to get his attention with some body shots. Not many than can throw as mean a left hook to the body as Chavez. Manny's footwork is good but not great and he just wouldn't be slick or elusive enough to keep JCC of him.

PBF vs JCC is a great fight and much closer in terms of the result. Meldrick Taylor even in defeat showed that JCC could be outboxed. PBF much more disciplined and defensively minded wouldn't let a lead slip like Taylor did and could see him boxing his way to a UD. PBF was a decent puncher at super feather and lightweight and had a good enough dig to earn JCCs respect. This would be the ultimate bull vs matador style fight with the matador winning it for me.

What he said!

Maravilla33

walshb wrote: »

PBF also would not take 1/10 of the shots Mel took. Frankie Randall outboxed JCC. Manny can too. I think you underestimate Manny's toughness, hardensss and chin.

JCC would have to be on Manny all the time. Manny has the fast feet, and also he will be throwing many many shots. JCC won't simply walk thru them.

Margarito is a mummy, but a big man. A deal bigger than JCC, and Manny ate him alive.

Now, at 140 I still feel that Manny will be overall too quick. JCC only chance is a KO, or TKO, and Manny has not shown a weak beard or a bad engine at 140 and above, or below.

Styles make fights, and as much as I love JCC, guys like Oscar, Pryor, Mosley and Manny; tough and skilled and very fast men, with power, are bad for him.

Not saying Manny couldn't win but just think JCC would overwhelm him. Manny seemed a bit more vulnerable at the lower weights and not as durable. I think if someone continuously goes to his body the way JCC could he's in for a long night. i don't think Manny's as slick as the other guys you named and don't think him darting in and out would be enough. I'm trying to think has he ever fought a world class pressure fighter in the mould of JCC? Hattons not in his class.

Maravilla33

Sorry seemed to have ignored some of your points. Manny did brutalise Margarito but he's a few levels below JCC and I couldn't help notice he did have a bit of joy when he went to manny's body. As you say JCC would have to be on him all the time and eat a lot of shots but theres no better man for that job and Manny has no inside game. Once JCC gets in there and I feel he would at some stage Mannys in trouble imo.

walshb

Maravilla33 wrote: »

Not saying Manny couldn't win but just think JCC would overwhelm him. Manny seemed a bit more vulnerable at the lower weights and not as durable. I think if someone continuously goes to his body the way JCC could he's in for a long night. i don't think Manny's as slick as the other guys you named and don't think him darting in and out would be enough. I'm trying to think has he ever fought a world class pressure fighter in the mould of JCC? Hattons not in his class.

The lower the weight, I agree, JCC most likely does well, and even wins. At 140 I have little to go on. But, the Manny who beat Cotto and Clottey and Oscar and Margarito I feel is too much for Julio, who was ordinary at 147.

Now, the thread is 140 and below. At 130 and 135 I will say that Julio defintely has a good chance here, almost a toss up. Ok, at 130 it's Julio.

Manny was a wee bit more reckless and wild and not as balanced and fluid. This could see Julio win.

Maravilla33

walshb wrote: »

The lower the weight, I agree, JCC most likely does well, and even wins. At 140 I have little to go on. But, the Manny who beat Cotto and Clottey and Oscar and Margarito I feel is too much for Julio, who was ordinary at 147.

Now, the thread is 140 and below. At 130 and 135 I will say that Julio defintely has a good chance here, almost a toss up. Ok, at 130 it's Julio.

Manny was a wee bit more reckless and wild and not as balanced and fluid. This could see Julio win.

Couldn't argue with that. One other point is the likes of Margarito, Oscar, Clottey and even Cotto after a while went into survival mode leaving Manny to tee off. Obviously Manny deserves credit for putting them there but I see JCC turning up to win and cant see anything dissuading him.

walshb

At 130 and 135 I would lean with JCC to beat Floyd. Close, but he'd be on Floyd too much, and his body and head attacks would take their toll. Sure, Floyd would have his moments, but this is not JLC in there.

cowzerp

At 135, JCC beats Manny but struggles against Mayweather-JCC is like a better version of Manny to me and Mayweathers style is just suited to making JCC have a nightmare..

walshb

I don't see JCC and Manny as at all comparable at 130 or 135, or any other weight.

One was a patient and methodical boxer/puncher/pressure machine. Not terribly fast with hands or feet.

Manny is a southpaw and much more distance and an outside-aggressive attacking fighter, with rapid hand speed and good feet.

PBF to me looked at his prime as a 140 lb fighter. Why? Well, here he was natural, mature, and at his phsical peak in every way. Everything blended. He still had the fast 130-135 lb feet and hand speed, and also, he was more experienced, heavier handed and even more versatile. Better on the inside too.

At 130 and 135 he had great speed of foot and hand, but I think he lacked the physical strength and maturity to beat a 130-135 lb Chavez, who was primed at these weights.

JLC provided the blue print to beat PBF at 135 lbs. JCC is two notches above this.

At 140 lbs I think Floyd is too good for JCC. Floyd is now stronger, bigger, as fast, heavier handed, more experienced, better on the inside than when he was a 130-135 lb fighter.

Julio began looking beatable as he rose in weight. 140-147 he just wasn't all that. Frankie and Mel, who Floyd is better than in all areas, gave JCC big problems.