110 million gift?

Dob74

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0405/breaking8.html


110 million to be written off by Anglo and no equity steak.

Oh and the person who profits from this was with the taoiseach a few weeks ago ringing the bell at the NYSE. Please no one put two and two together.

Slydice

So siteserv owes us (taxpayers who own anglo irish bank) €150 million but we're only going to get €40 million?

So essentially that's every man woman and child in the country giving Dennis O'Brien €24.... or if we go on the number of people in employment, it's actually €60 each.

Well, that kinda strikes a nerve

NoelJ

The part that strikes me is that 5 million is going to shareholders? Why?

Slydice

NoelJ wrote: »

The part that strikes me is that 5 million is going to shareholders? Why?

Might have been to get them to play along as they had to vote it to happen:

The deal had to get shareholder approval at a meeting in Dublin this morning

Hootanany

This is Sickening.

blackdog2

Well, it could have been worse. We could have accepted the best offer (of 60 million)... :mad:

liammur

Dob74 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0405/breaking8.html


110 million to be written off by Anglo and no equity steak.

Oh and the person who profits from this was with the taoiseach a few weeks ago ringing the bell at the NYSE. Please no one put two and two together.

Well government plan to make plenty of cash from IL&P shareholders who were fleeced.

thebman

Something seems dirty here that the highest bidder was basically ignored.

barneystinson

blackdog2 wrote: »

Well, it could have been worse. We could have accepted the best offer (of 60 million)... :mad:

"...it received an indicative, non-binding proposal from French group, Altrad to purchase its businesses for €60 million.

The bid was subject to due diligence, non-binding, governed by French law and on an exclusivity period of eight weeks."

That's not an offer. That's someone thinking about considering making an offer.

washman3

Same old,Same old. Nothing has changed in this country. FG/LAB exactly the same as FF/GR/IND..:mad:

recedite

The board said that it was its considered view that there was no certainty of a legally-binding offer at a price and under conditions that could be recommended to shareholders, and as a result, would maintain its recommendation of the Millington offer

Yes, it looks like the State could easily have got €60M instead of the €40M from Denis, and the €5M given to shareholders was just to make sure they played along.

johnnyskeleton

Is part of the deal based on keeping their Irish employees here, or maybe moving more employees here? Was it a case that unless they do an immediate deal they would have been insolvent and had to close?

If so, I can see why the offer might have been accepted on purely objective business grounds - a 26% recovery on a loan to a failed business is not the worst (albeit not great) and they might have done worse on winding up, especially if the debt was unsecured.

Paying the shareholders is a bit weird though.

ABEasy

Bit gaulled about the shareholders getting 5m but if the company was only worth 45m -60m (possibly) then it's not Dennis o'briens fault, its those tits in Anglo who lost us 110m! Hopefully it will save the 900 jobs in ireland and maybe any further jobs created will be create in the state!

jimmycrackcorm

washman3 wrote: »

Same old,Same old. Nothing has changed in this country. FG/LAB exactly the same as FF/GR/IND..:mad:

It doesn't indicate anything like this. Anyone could have made an offer but no one else did including the speculative French mention. Better to get something than nothing at all.

thebman

Why would the jobs be kept in the state just because Dennis O'Brien owns it?

Are people naive enough to think that the jobs will be kept in Ireland if they can make bigger profits by outsourcing them to another country?

johnnyskeleton

thebman wrote: »

Why would the jobs be kept in the state just because Dennis O'Brien owns it?

Are people naive enough to think that the jobs will be kept in Ireland if they can make bigger profits by outsourcing them to another country?

If the alternative was that it be wound up or downsized with the consequent losses of jobs, that would be a valid political reason to forgive most of the debts. Just because someone like denis o brien has been given good terms doesn't mean that it is corruption or based on some other untoward motive.

No one has suggested that the jobs would be kept because denis o brien now owns it, people have suggested that the jobs might be kept because the deal was done.

Slydice

namawinelake has a post on this issue here:
Ten things to know about the Denis O’Brien/Siteserv transaction
April 8, 2012 by namawinelake
http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/04/08/ten-things-to-know-about-the-denis-obriensiteserv-transaction/

two good points I hadn't seen elsewhere:

Why doesn’t IBRC just appoint receivers to Siteserv? Indeed, a good question. Remember it was just a year ago that IBRC, or Anglo as it was known then, orchestrated the receivership of Sean Quinn’s companies. So it’s not as if IBRC hasn’t a track record of appointing receivers to insolvent companies. There are suggestions that Siteserv would lose several contracts if it were placed in receivership but these have not been publicly addressed.

and

And is there any chance that Denis might buy the company for €45m – which will involve us taking a €100m writedown on what we are owed by Siteserv – and then a couple of months later, sell the company for €52m or €60m? There’s certainly a chance!

johnnyskeleton

Why doesn’t IBRC just appoint receivers to Siteserv? Indeed, a good question. Remember it was just a year ago that IBRC, or Anglo as it was known then, orchestrated the receivership of Sean Quinn’s companies. So it’s not as if IBRC hasn’t a track record of appointing receivers to insolvent companies. There are suggestions that Siteserv would lose several contracts if it were placed in receivership but these have not been publicly addressed.

Receivership over what? do we know the nature of the security (if any) that IBRC had? For all we know, it could have been another Anglo unenforcible debt.

There is also the cost of receivership and the fact that IBRC want to shrink their balance sheet, not keep things in receivership for a year or more.

A quick look at their balance sheet suggests that most of their assets were "intangible assets" so putting a value on the company could be quite hard.

And is there any chance that Denis might buy the company for €45m – which will involve us taking a €100m writedown on what we are owed by Siteserv – and then a couple of months later, sell the company for €52m or €60m? There’s certainly a chance!

Absolutely. If it was anyone else people would say fair play / good gamble / it paid off for him.

At the end of the day, the real question is why there is no oversight in relation to this type of transaction (which happen every day - in many instances the buyout is by the former directors themselves)? You would think that a truly accountable government would have an interest in exposing any improprieties in these transactions and if there is anything untoward going on, they could set it aside.

So there are two possibilities, even though it looks bad it is above board or else the current government is carrying on as the last one. Since the only people in a position to know are the ones who would want to cover it up, how do we find out what has really happened?

recedite

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Just because someone like denis o brien has been given good terms doesn't mean that it is corruption

:pac:;)

Slydice

The Indo's Jody Corcoran pointing a possible link that Dennis O'Briens Siteserv might end up installing the water meters:

Jody Corcoran: OK, Enda, this is why there's a fuss about Phil Hogan
The minister can't seem to stop bumping into the businessman criticised by the Moriarty tribunal, writes Jody Corcoran
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/jody-corcoran-ok-enda-this-is-why-theres-a-fuss-about-phil-hogan-3074214.html
Quotes selected and bold added by me:

IT'S a great little country. The disclosure that Michael Lowry had a meeting with Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan, just days after publication of the Moriarty Report, while illuminating, is almost irrelevant at another level.

Yes, of course it is relevant that Hogan would deem it appropriate to honour a scheduled meeting with his friend Lowry six days after Lowry had been roundly condemned by Moriarty for having helped to deliver to Denis O'Brien the most lucrative licence ever awarded by the State.

In due course, Siteserv will, no doubt, tender for state contracts, such as, for example, the installation of water meters at households around the country -- a contract that will be granted by the Department of the Environment.

johnnyskeleton

Slydice wrote: »

The Indo's Jody Corcoran pointing a possible link that Dennis O'Briens Siteserv might end up installing the water meters:

Jody Corcoran: OK, Enda, this is why there's a fuss about Phil Hogan
The minister can't seem to stop bumping into the businessman criticised by the Moriarty tribunal, writes Jody Corcoran
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/jody-corcoran-ok-enda-this-is-why-theres-a-fuss-about-phil-hogan-3074214.html
Quotes selected and bold added by me:

IT'S a great little country. The disclosure that Michael Lowry had a meeting with Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan, just days after publication of the Moriarty Report, while illuminating, is almost irrelevant at another level.

Yes, of course it is relevant that Hogan would deem it appropriate to honour a scheduled meeting with his friend Lowry six days after Lowry had been roundly condemned by Moriarty for having helped to deliver to Denis O'Brien the most lucrative licence ever awarded by the State.

In due course, Siteserv will, no doubt, tender for state contracts, such as, for example, the installation of water meters at households around the country -- a contract that will be granted by the Department of the Environment.

Public contracts of this nature are usually done by tender. Any unsuccessful underbidder is entitled to bring high court proceedings.

I think it is right to question these things but it is wrong to idly speculate in this manner. It would be a better article if he found out more info on the deal from Anglo, but that would require effort.

howamidifferent

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Public contracts of this nature are usually done by tender. Any unsuccessful underbidder is entitled to bring high court proceedings.

I think it is right to question these things but it is wrong to idly speculate in this manner. It would be a better article if he found out more info on the deal from Anglo, but that would require effort.

I don't think for one minute we'll see anyone other than siteserv get the water meter contract... Lack of proof of funny business does not mean no funny business is taking place. :mad:

20Cent

Looking at the services siteserv provide its hard to see how much of it could be outsourced. Its mostly hands on work. A guy in India can't install a satellite dish in Dublin.

http://www.siteserv.ie/services.html

stonetrower

20Cent wrote: »

Looking at the services siteserv provide its hard to see how much of it could be outsourced. Its mostly hands on work. A guy in India can't install a satellite dish in Dublin.

http://www.siteserv.ie/services.html

Check out Ribeye on politics.ie and you will be led into a web of intrigue about siteserve and Dennis o'Brien and FG

recedite

So, the story so far;
Siteserve owed €110M to a nationalised bank, but was only valued at €60M
Instead of the State taking ownership, they sold it to Denis for €40M plus a €5M sweetener to the shareholders to keep them playing along.
Engineers Ireland have estimated the water meters will take around 10 years to install, over which time it will be a very lucrative contract for whoever gets it.
By an amazing coincidence, Siteserve now seems to be in a position to get the contract before it is even tendered. Sickening.

Count Dooku

washman3 wrote: »

Same old,Same old. Nothing has changed in this country. FG/LAB exactly the same as FF/GR/IND..:mad:

do you mean that it will be first time when Denis O'Brien will benefit from FG/LAB?:eek:

charlie50

just a intresting point, the MD of sierra was mr O breins puppet for years at esat!! sierra is siteserv most profitable company in ireland by far, members of the sierra management have already been out to hati already looking for work, something is just not adding up here!!

Hootanany

charlie50 wrote: »

just a intresting point, the MD of sierra was mr O breins puppet for years at esat!! sierra is siteserv most profitable company in ireland by far, members of the sierra management have already been out to hati already looking for work, something is just not adding up here!!

Threads gone very quite.:cool:

WOW thats disgusting!!

Why arent people out on the streets! Get everything cleaned out, straightened out. Lock up the corrupt politicians the crooked bankers and then it`d be alot easier to get everyone on board for the tough austerity. First priority should be cleaning things out....

Slydice

Slydice wrote: »

The Indo's Jody Corcoran pointing a possible link that Dennis O'Briens Siteserv might end up installing the water meters:

Jody Corcoran: OK, Enda, this is why there's a fuss about Phil Hogan
The minister can't seem to stop bumping into the businessman criticised by the Moriarty tribunal, writes Jody Corcoran
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/jody-corcoran-ok-enda-this-is-why-theres-a-fuss-about-phil-hogan-3074214.html
Quotes selected and bold added by me:
IT'S a great little country. The disclosure that Michael Lowry had a meeting with Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan, just days after publication of the Moriarty Report, while illuminating, is almost irrelevant at another level.

Yes, of course it is relevant that Hogan would deem it appropriate to honour a scheduled meeting with his friend Lowry six days after Lowry had been roundly condemned by Moriarty for having helped to deliver to Denis O'Brien the most lucrative licence ever awarded by the State.

In due course, Siteserv will, no doubt, tender for state contracts, such as, for example, the installation of water meters at households around the country -- a contract that will be granted by the Department of the Environment.

Interesting guess there by Jody.

MARIE O'HALLORAN in the Irish Times reporting on Sinn Fein making an accusation about something similar in the dail:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0427/1224315233706.html
The Irish Times - Friday, April 27, 2012
Government haste over water body criticised by Limerick TD
quote from towards the end of the article:

Sinn Féin spokesman Brian Stanley pointed out that the EU-IMF requirement on water charges “does not mention metering”.

He said Sierra Support Services, a Siteserv plc company, had won the contract for up to €60 million to become the sole services provider and maintenance of more than one million water meters.

“Siteserv was sold to businessman Denis O’Brien recently. This raises serious questions about who will receive the contract for the installation and maintenance of more than 1 million water meters. We are led to believe that these meters will require regular maintenance and recalibration.”

Very interesting.

Hootanany

Slydice wrote: »

Interesting guess there by Jody.

MARIE O'HALLORAN in the Irish Times reporting on Sinn Fein making an accusation about something similar in the dail:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0427/1224315233706.html
The Irish Times - Friday, April 27, 2012
Government haste over water body criticised by Limerick TD
quote from towards the end of the article:


Very interesting.

Anyone know where I can fix a list off all companies that tendered for said contract.

Skrynesaver

Ah now don't be picking on poor Dobby it's pure begrudgery sure the taxes that fella must pay would be enough to keep a lot of schools and hospitals running... if he paid tax in this country that is.