Ireland, Here and Now

nostradamnedus

They propose household levy, €100 to start with. The money raised from that is supposed to go to local councils. For what, councils have had budgets slashed by government so they can maintain our streets and roads?. Rubbish, we have to pay for that ourselves. The only thing this money is any good for is to pay council employees, buy a few street lights, service the vehicles and yards and pay bills from companies which now have the councils old responsibilities like refuse collection, watermains repair and footpath/junction repair. They are proposing water charges, which currently are in part funded by the yearly budget of the councils. The sewerage is charged by local authorities to the individuals property. The councils are there to look after their estates and main roads, today there are very few new council estates and the older estates are largely forgotten about. Money has been allocated to councils for traveller settlements and rehousing/relocation already included in their budgets.

Do the Irish Government realise that road tax is there for roads not bonuses or pensions. Paye, prsi, usc, vat, duties and the other stealth taxes are there for public services. In other words, tax is added to every consumer good and service for public services. As it’s supposed to be: the worker pays for their petrol/diesel for the environment tax, the workers’ car tax pays for the roads, the worker pays the for their bin collection not operated by councils anymore, the worker pays for their electricity not operated by councils, the worker pays for their gas/oil for the environment tax, the worker that has a credit card pays a levy for having one, the worker has to pay over the odds insurance that had incurred massive problems as it was improperly regulated in the past, the worker pays for their own extortionate health insurance which is taxed, the worker pays the Governments wages and are paying more to retired, corrupt and unscrupulous Government and Civil servants.

You cant squeeze blood from a stone but the Irish Government are doing their best. These existing taxes should be sufficient to keep our services funded. The Governments promises to the Banks are the root cause of Ireland’s problems. Letting these, as they were, none state owned bodies hold Ireland to ransom while within their ranks they are able to give their Executives, who failed in their duties, large bonuses for their work. Work that has not been ethical or productive. In any other business an Employee that is not able to do their job would be ejected from that Organisation, not given a “golden handshake” on their retirement. Bad and corrupt decision making has caused our, false, economy to spiral down into austerity and bad debt.

Irish people cannot ignore how entwined the Banks, Government Officials, Civil Servants and Construction Companies were in the run up to the recession. There was nothing the Irish Government could do about the global aspect but as a Country, Ireland should have had their books in order. Unfortunately, due to the ignorance and idiocy of the Government to the business model in place, brown envelopes and backhanders, great business model for a mafia. If a law abiding citizen was to do as they have done they would no doubt been fined, stripped of assets and jailed. It is no wonder that the Irish public is upset.

The Irish Government needs to wise up. The sob story is getting old, fast. They need to sit down, look over the books then ask intelligent questions. Ireland cannot continue to operate on knee jerk reactions and be proactive. Problem is, in Government, when an individual or group of individuals has a radical, well thought out plan that could impact another individual’s constituency or pocket, would be struck out or changed in such a way favouritism is given to the objector.

Ireland has seen Government members’ constituencies benefit where other areas have been left under-funded, unfunded or neglected. This government need to stop this preferential treatment of their own county and look at the country. The Government is trying to attract Hi-Tech Businesses not realising we are not equipped to do so. Our infrastructure is severely out of date, running near last in global standards.

For a small country, Ireland has contributed so much globally. We have let our sons and daughters leave to find a decent life in a foreign country in recessions past. This is evidence that, in the past, times have been so tough for people to live in Ireland that their only option was emigration. It is still happening.

Why do we torment ourselves about our Government when we were the ones that elected them. We need to show our Government that we are not pleased with they way they are handling things. Since we, the Irish people, trust that our Elected Officials are qualified and capable to do the job, we blindly obey without much opposition or complaint. We must be more European about it, more vocal but not violent. Our great State, one born out of oppression and struggle, was created by ideologists. Unfortunately the ideologists have since past and we are now left with Politicians. Enough said.

meglome

nostradamnedus wrote: »

You cant squeeze blood from a stone but the Irish Government are doing their best. These existing taxes should be sufficient to keep our services funded. The Governments promises to the Banks are the root cause of Ireland’s problems. Letting these, as they were, none state owned bodies hold Ireland to ransom while within their ranks they are able to give their Executives, who failed in their duties, large bonuses for their work. Work that has not been ethical or productive. In any other business an Employee that is not able to do their job would be ejected from that Organisation, not given a “golden handshake” on their retirement. Bad and corrupt decision making has caused our, false, economy to spiral down into austerity and bad debt.

To be honest the idea that we've had real austerity here is utter nonsense. We're awash with borrowed cash so that we're not seeing real austerity. And really blaming the banks is just playing into the myth. We're borrowing 14 billion this year alone and 95% of it is not going to fund the banks. There's plenty of blame to go around starting with the electorate.

meglome wrote: »

Some facts.

• 95% of the 14 billion we’re borrowing this year is for our spending deficit is not going to pay for bank debt. It’s just going to fund government services etc. That is a fact.
• The majority of the money we’ve borrowed full stop is for our overspending and not the banks. That is a fact.
• Even if we never made another payment to a bank or never made a payment in the first place we’d still have borrowed the majority of the money. That is a fact.
• Fianna Fail got rid of the sustainable domestic rates to buy an election in 1974 and with the many other tax deceases they have brought in to buy other elections we now do not have a sustainable tax base. That is a fact.

If we do a simple counterfactual and magic away the €62.5 billion we have pumped into the banks, the projected deficit for 2012 would fall from €13.6 billion to €12.8 billion or 8.0% of GDP. Eliminating the effect of the bank payments would knock 5% off the deficit; 95% of next year’s deficit is not related to the bank payments.

It is impossible to be human and not to be furious about this. But anger – righteous or otherwise – should not cloud analysis. However understandable, that has happened in the debate on bank debt.

Three claims are frequently made:

• Most public debt is a result of taking on banking debt;
• The economic and budgetary outlook would be transformed if banking debt could be offloaded;
• A bailout would not have been needed had it not been for socialised banking debt.

These claims are, respectively, plain wrong, wrong and debatable.

Links... http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0323/1224313766388.html and http://economic-incentives.blogspot.com/2011/11/deficit-and-banks.html

bbam

nostradamnedus wrote: »

They propose household levy, €100 to start with. The money raised from that is supposed to go to local councils. For what, councils have had budgets slashed by government so they can maintain our streets and roads?. Rubbish, we have to pay for that ourselves. The only thing this money is any good for is to pay council employees, buy a few street lights, service the vehicles and yards and pay bills from companies which now have the councils old responsibilities like refuse collection, watermains repair and footpath/junction repair. They are proposing water charges, which currently are in part funded by the yearly budget of the councils. The sewerage is charged by local authorities to the individuals property. The councils are there to look after their estates and main roads, today there are very few new council estates and the older estates are largely forgotten about. Money has been allocated to councils for traveller settlements and rehousing/relocation already included in their budgets.

Do the Irish Government realise that road tax is there for roads not bonuses or pensions. Paye, prsi, usc, vat, duties and the other stealth taxes are there for public services. In other words, tax is added to every consumer good and service for public services. As it’s supposed to be: the worker pays for their petrol/diesel for the environment tax, the workers’ car tax pays for the roads, the worker pays the for their bin collection not operated by councils anymore, the worker pays for their electricity not operated by councils, the worker pays for their gas/oil for the environment tax, the worker that has a credit card pays a levy for having one, the worker has to pay over the odds insurance that had incurred massive problems as it was improperly regulated in the past, the worker pays for their own extortionate health insurance which is taxed, the worker pays the Governments wages and are paying more to retired, corrupt and unscrupulous Government and Civil servants.

You cant squeeze blood from a stone but the Irish Government are doing their best. These existing taxes should be sufficient to keep our services funded. The Governments promises to the Banks are the root cause of Ireland’s problems. Letting these, as they were, none state owned bodies hold Ireland to ransom while within their ranks they are able to give their Executives, who failed in their duties, large bonuses for their work. Work that has not been ethical or productive. In any other business an Employee that is not able to do their job would be ejected from that Organisation, not given a “golden handshake” on their retirement. Bad and corrupt decision making has caused our, false, economy to spiral down into austerity and bad debt.

Irish people cannot ignore how entwined the Banks, Government Officials, Civil Servants and Construction Companies were in the run up to the recession. There was nothing the Irish Government could do about the global aspect but as a Country, Ireland should have had their books in order. Unfortunately, due to the ignorance and idiocy of the Government to the business model in place, brown envelopes and backhanders, great business model for a mafia. If a law abiding citizen was to do as they have done they would no doubt been fined, stripped of assets and jailed. It is no wonder that the Irish public is upset.

The Irish Government needs to wise up. The sob story is getting old, fast. They need to sit down, look over the books then ask intelligent questions. Ireland cannot continue to operate on knee jerk reactions and be proactive. Problem is, in Government, when an individual or group of individuals has a radical, well thought out plan that could impact another individual’s constituency or pocket, would be struck out or changed in such a way favouritism is given to the objector.

Ireland has seen Government members’ constituencies benefit where other areas have been left under-funded, unfunded or neglected. This government need to stop this preferential treatment of their own county and look at the country. The Government is trying to attract Hi-Tech Businesses not realising we are not equipped to do so. Our infrastructure is severely out of date, running near last in global standards.

For a small country, Ireland has contributed so much globally. We have let our sons and daughters leave to find a decent life in a foreign country in recessions past. This is evidence that, in the past, times have been so tough for people to live in Ireland that their only option was emigration. It is still happening.

Why do we torment ourselves about our Government when we were the ones that elected them. We need to show our Government that we are not pleased with they way they are handling things. Since we, the Irish people, trust that our Elected Officials are qualified and capable to do the job, we blindly obey without much opposition or complaint. We must be more European about it, more vocal but not violent. Our great State, one born out of oppression and struggle, was created by ideologists. Unfortunately the ideologists have since past and we are now left with Politicians. Enough said.

That's some first post there...
It must be some relief to get that load of your mind..

Irish society on the whole went off the rails just for long enough to put the country into some bother..

Now we need to pony up and pay higher taxes to run the show so there isn't the need to continue to borrow crazy amounts of money from abroad..

Sure there is some waste in the systems that need to be eliminated ASAP, but in hospitals, schools and general public services I feel we get good value and service..

Rather than people winging about more taxes which are needed to fund the country people should be pressuring the government to produce the goods regarding jobs that they have promised and not delivered on.... If we got people of the scratcher and into real jobs (not silly makey up crap) there would be less draw on the public finances and more people to contribute to the country..

Idbatterim

http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1143294

directly related to the household charge, why not cut all the waste before taxing? If you ask me whether id prefer cuts to local services (highly likely their pay will be cut) or reduced services, i know which option id choose, given the appalling value we get for our public services!!!

nostradamnedus

Thank you for your input. I did not want to put figures in this, as none can be trusted 100%. (damn, a figure). This is only the first of many. Bank debt and austerity are only symptoms of the disease. Sure FF cut rates, but the next budget increased the income tax to counter. Enough on that. I am going to point out the problems that have implication for us all, Irelands outdated system. The words local and regional that are common place in the Government. These are personal interest points which have nothing to do with they way the country is run. No names (anymore, because you know who you are), No specific party and definitely NO figures. I want people to read this and make up their own conclusion, not go with wrote. The Household Tax just makes my blood boil, the fact that the money ‘is going to that local council where people have paid’ I can not believe it. Not that I don’t trust the Government, but I just can’t. We all know about the ‘if I’m entitled to it I’ll take it’ nature of staff in any business, but please, if you earn more than four times minimum wage please think. Bullying your co-workers into putting in for expenses so that they won’t be cut is not civil and does not serve the public, they should be called the Civil Self-Servants. There is Civil Servants out there earning more than some TD’s, costing the Country, the Tax Payer and every Irish Citizen money with wasteful endeavours, frivolous gestures and incompetence. An example of this was the Voting machines, poorly built and overpriced. A 14 year would do a better job. These people should be audited, not by another Government body but by external group that deals with all aspects of running a business. We need Irelands backbone, the Government and its’ Departments to be run internally like a business and externally run like a progressive, democratic Republic.

Too much in-house fighting. Too much in-house agreements. Too many lies.

I love to get my teeth into religious influence on Ireland but I will no doubt cause controversy, so all I’m going to say on this issue is: do as America has done, Keep religion on its own, separate. Believe what you want, don’t oppress or repress others with different beliefs’. The theory is sound, the practice is problematic. Its like tell a 3 or 4 year old that there’s no Santa, you will get the disbelief, tantrum, violent outbursts and eventually passive aggressive behaviour which can lead to more violence. Belief is tough to change, it would need a life altering event to change a belief. I don’t know if you have noticed but religions have influence major struggles in the world. Ok gone too far, its not the religions fault, its their believers. Most religions preach peace and good will, but to coin a phrase its ‘the evil that men do’. Religion in each of its forms is like a set of instructions or guide on how to be human, not how to run a Country.

Right going to leave it there for now. Should this be a blog? Nah, feed back is appreciated. Any critique is a good critique.

ardmacha

Any critique is a good critique.

Your post is exactly why things are never going to improve. Government will act on what people want, but the public needs to be capable of discerning what is important and give clear signals.

Your post above had a very valid point about inefficiency in local government. Instead of making this and supporting it with rational argument you filled up the post with ridiculous points, which both obscure the important point and reduce your credibility in making it.

e.g.
the household tax makes your blood boil - we have to have a proper tax structure. no point ranting about it.

civil servants are paid more than TDs - this is entirely appropriate, although you may believe that both are paid too much. More important is the competence of these people.

I love to get my teeth into religious influence on Ireland - no doubt, but this has nothing to do with the issue.

If this forum is anyhow representative of the public, then I increasingly believe that this State is banjaxed.

ArmaniJeanss

nostradamnedus wrote: »

Right going to leave it there for now. Should this be a blog? Nah, feed back is appreciated. Any critique is a good critique.

OK, here's a critique. Hows about chopping the 2000 words of waffle? Maybe in your next post do a basic budget about how Ireland inc gets rid of its €14B deficit over say 5 years (or 10/15 years if you want, I'm not beholden to IMF/EU targets). None of the guff about voting machines, religious orders, or how much a few civil servants earn. If you want to highly tax people who earn 'four times the minimum wage' thats perfectly OK, but tell us what difference it makes to the bottom line.

Start with what we actually take in and what we pay out, analyze the difference, and come up with figures as to how we bridge the gap. Its quite the challenge I know. But you seem a wordy individual and I'm sure you can do it.

bbam

nostradamnedus wrote: »

Any critique is a good critique.

Je5us I'd hate to be sitting next to you on a long haul flight :eek: