What is the best age to bull heifers at?

GoodMan55985

Hi All,

Have a few nice Charolais heifers they were born in March and April last year.

Would they be ok to put in-calf if they came in heat in May or June.

Am thinking of giving them Angus bull rather than Limousin bull to make calving easier.

Thanks

sh1tstirrer

GoodMan55985 wrote: »

Hi All,

Have a few nice Charolais heifers they were born in March and April last year.

Would they be ok to put in-calf if they came in heat in May or June.

Am thinking of giving them Angus bull rather than Limousin bull to make calving easier.

Thanks

It depends on their weights if they are over 320kg they will be well fit. Angus would be better for heifers.

Muckit

Does anybody run an angus bull here? Would you still get a few calves that would have to be dehorned if the mothers were continentals??

Atilathehun

Muckit wrote: »

Does anybody run an angus bull here? Would you still get a few calves that would have to be dehorned if the mothers were continentals??

I have a charolais calf this year, born early January, off a charolais x shorthorn cow.
Not a sign of a horn bud:o He is nearly 3 months. Can't understand it.

1chippy

wouldnt dream of bulling a heifer under 420kg. i,m finding that a lot of the younger continentals dont cycle that early either.

blue5000

Muckit wrote: »

Does anybody run an angus bull here? Would you still get a few calves that would have to be dehorned if the mothers were continentals??

There should be no horns from a pure bred angus in the first cross, in the second generation from angus x cows some calves don't have horns either. However some angus bulls out there (from canada?) can have an odd calf from the first cross with butts of horns.

I reckon heifers are ok to bull at 16 months provided they are at 340kg. If you leave them too long eg. calving at three yr old you will have a bigger cow but fertility tends to be lower.

john62

Muckit wrote: »

Does anybody run an angus bull here? Would you still get a few calves that would have to be dehorned if the mothers were continentals??

We used to have an angus bull up until last year. Had calves out of limousin and simmental cows and never had to dehorn a calf.:)

connormi

We run a big angus bull with sucklers, dont have to dehorn, some calves come greyish colours off charolais cows make very nice cattle.

Also buy angus calves some grow horns as prob not off pure bred bulls. Some dairy farmers use half bred bulls as just want a black calf and can be very small our bull prob too big for heifers to bull that age. When buying him the breeder had bulls a way smaller that dairy farmers wanted and more suitable for heifers

blue5000

connormi wrote: »

We run a big angus bull with sucklers, dont have to dehorn, some calves come greyish colours off charolais cows make very nice cattle.

Also buy angus calves some grow horns as prob not off pure bred bulls. Some dairy farmers use half bred bulls as just want a black calf and can be very small our bull prob too big for heifers to bull that age. When buying him the breeder had bulls a way smaller that dairy farmers wanted and more suitable for heifers

What breeding is your angus, ours is a son of LWF very happy with him.

Bizzum

For me calving at about 30 mths is ideal. So bulling them about 20mths of age.
I've seen the odd calf form an AAx cow come with no horns or horns that never come to anything. An AA breeder told me once that the heifer calves will never have horns but the odd bull has horns. Does anyone find this? Very few of our cows have AA in them so I don't know.

Bodacious

1chippy wrote: »

wouldnt dream of bulling a heifer under 420kg. i,m finding that a lot of the younger continentals dont cycle that early either.

+1

I'd be with chippy on this one way too young and light For bulling at any less.

I've 2 march 2011 Ch X heifers and they good heifers, wouldn't dream of touching them with straw or Ai until next march (23 months)and they calve then at Xmas @ 2 years and 8 months any younger than that and the animal IMO isnt given time to grow and develop her potential herself

ArtSmart

Wait until your late forties.

trust me on this.

sh1tstirrer

1chippy wrote: »

wouldnt dream of bulling a heifer under 420kg. i,m finding that a lot of the younger continentals dont cycle that early either.

You could right. I don't have sucklers only dairy heifers.

leg wax

1chippy wrote: »

wouldnt dream of bulling a heifer under 420kg. i,m finding that a lot of the younger continentals dont cycle that early either.

+2 , i dont go by age ,just size and 400 kilo at least,have heifers for the part bull next month and the youngest when she will calve will 24 months and oldest 32 months.

pakalasa

I always breed replacements from the cows that calve early every year. To me these are the fertile cows. I try and calve down at 2 yrs or a little after. I use very easy calving AI Lim bulls and give the freshly calved heifer meal then to get her back bulling ASAP. I can't see how it's profitable to wait until they are 3 years old, though I have a few calving myself at that age. The dairy guys calve at 2 years, so why can't the sucklers.

golfcruiser

Should be 360 kg at bulling.

Don't use anything else but an Angus bull on a heifer

Dozer1

I'd agree with Pak, and would always aim to calve heifers down at just over the 2 years, one of the issues I have with calving down at 3 years is the sheer size of the cows you end up with.
On a farm where ground conditions can be tricky I don't see the point of having big heavy cows poaching the land.

49801

we had a bit of a shock this year... a 17mth hiefer bagged up. had the vet out to pull... a bit tough but both came away ok.

twas a fair shock as we only put her with bull 2wks previous.

both mother and calf are doing fine:).

just as well she's a SAX. must double check our heat detection sheet but I am pretty sure she's on it.:D

ddogsbollix

if your thinking about bulling them they have to be 60% of there mature weight reached. (e.g) so 600 kg animal must be around the +400kg when your bulling them!

ya get an extra calf from the animal but you would want to be very careful of what your bulling her too....

blue5000

ddogsbollix wrote: »

if your thinking about bulling them they have to be 60% of there mature weight reached. (e.g) so 600 kg animal must be around the +400kg when your bulling them!

ya get an extra calf from the animal but you would want to be very careful of what your bulling her too....

60% of 600 = 360

If heifers that calve down at 2 years of age are fed properly after calving they will continue to grow. But if you want a massive ie 700kg cow you are better off calving them at 3 yr old. But with a suckling system where your cows are 700kg feed costs per cow are very high. 2 of these cows will eat the same as 3 smaller 500-550 angus x cows. The only advantage heavy cows have is when they go on the hook.

sh1tstirrer

golfcruiser wrote: »

Should be 360 kg at bulling.

Don't use anything else but an Angus bull on a heifer

I used an easy calving ai friesian on dairy heifers calving as 2 year olds and slightly younger without any problems. I will admit that I watched them like a hawk at calving and used the jack on a few. 20 heifers calved 21 live calves without any problems.

1chippy

i fully agree it can be done at a younger age and its what suits some people. however back in the previous reference years we got all the heifer weanlings bulled just to pull up numbers. we ended up with a heap of small cows with humps on their backs from hard calvings. they lasted alright we just never put hard calvers on them. we wouldnt take the chance and would only be going backwards if we went back to smaller cows.
As for the age we have one calving in oct at 22 months but shes well over the 500 mark at the moment. one of the other heifers is coming 17 months at the moment and still no sign of her cycling. got her scanned and alls good he just told us we would have to hold on a bit.

connormi

blue5000 wrote: »

What breeding is your angus, ours is a son of LWF very happy with him.

Is a son of fiw, is a 5 star bull with 88 euro suckler beef value on icbf

Your bull with sucklers or dairy cows.

Dunedin

pakalasa wrote: »

The dairy guys calve at 2 years, so why can't the sucklers.

because it's a lot easier to get a dairy heifer back in calf then a suckler.

30 months is ideal for heifer calving but that doesn't suit every man cos' it if you have a spring herd, then you need an autumn calf in order to calve in spring time at the 30 months.

I like to have them close enough to the 400 kilo's for bulling.

i think it's nearly more important to have your heifers calving earlier then the rest of the herd to allow for slippages in getting them back in calf for year 2.

blue5000

connormi wrote: »

Is a son of fiw, is a 5 star bull with 88 euro suckler beef value on icbf

Your bull with sucklers or dairy cows.

Sucklers, but I have a lot of his daughters in the herd. I bought him in '07 and only use him on the older bb x, lm x and fr cows in the herd now to produce replacements.

Richk2012

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

It depends on their weights if they are over 320kg they will be well fit. Angus would be better for heifers.

320 :eek: ???? Id have heavier calves being weaned off cows in the autumn.
Do they have much size to them as cows when bulled at that weight???

golfcruiser

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

I used an easy calving ai friesian on dairy heifers calving as 2 year olds and slightly younger without any problems. I will admit that I watched them like a hawk at calving and used the jack on a few. 20 heifers calved 21 live calves without any problems.

Don't think this man is going to use a friesian bull on his Charolais heifers!

49801

Thought I'd follow up and clarify you on our 'accident heifer'.
she was 17mths and 21days old when she calved:o... hence a trip to the DVO:mad:... our own fault in fairness:(.

I took these photo's about 2wks ago.
The calf is about 11wks in the pics and the new lad was serving her while I was there:D.

leg wax

49801 wrote: »

Thought I'd follow up and clarify you on our 'accident heifer'.
she was 17mths and 21days old when she calved:o... hence a trip to the DVO:mad:... our own fault in fairness:(.

I took these photo's about 2wks ago.
The calf is about 11wks in the pics and the new lad was serving her while I was there:D.

thats a first blocked tag numbers:o,then again vander is around:D

49801

leg wax wrote: »

thats a first blocked tag numbers:o,then again vander is around:D

there can be some overly nosey buggers around al right;)

ddogsbollix

ya sorry the heifer has to be 380-400 kg at 15 months. ya can give an easy limousin or angus. on my farm we do it this way cause your getting an extra calf . plus in the heifer beef system ya get a calf of a heifer and still have her fattening for beef

JoeyJones

Hi All, I have a pen of Charolais heifers (white and yellow) in colour. They are 22-24 months. I will be bulling them soon, they are all cyclcing so in the next 3 to 6 will be for bulling. Looking for replacements off these so thinking of using Simmental.

I am thinking of giving them AI Simmental bull (Planet AS12). He is meant to be easy calving and recommended in the Progressive Genetics bull book for maiden heifers. Anyone have experience of trying him on Charolais heifers? Also would the colour of the calves of this cross be the true simmental colouring. Just a bit wary as never tried Simmental on heifers before or would a AA/Lim bull be safer. All advice appreciated. thanks

simx

usually around here we calve down at 24 months minimum to easy calving ai lim bull

Bizzum

JoeyJones wrote: »

I am thinking of giving them AI Simmental bull (Planet AS12). He is meant to be easy calving and recommended in the Progressive Genetics bull book for maiden heifers. Anyone have experience of trying him on Charolais heifers? Also would the colour of the calves of this cross be the true simmental colouring. Just a bit wary as never tried Simmental on heifers before or would a AA/Lim bull be safer.

Good strong heifers you have at that age.

Is Planet (AS12) still available? There's something telling me that he's not, but I might have dreamt it!
I suppose AA would be safer but personally I'd be going down the proven easy calving Lim route. I think they may bring a little less bone/frame than the Sim bull.

JoeyJones

Yeah Planet AS12 is still available. I checked on the ICBF website. Plenty of him left. €10 a straw. His daughters are meant to be docile and leave great cows

Bizzum

JoeyJones wrote: »

Yeah Planet AS12 is still available. I checked on the ICBF website. Plenty of him left. €10 a straw. His daughters are meant to be docile and leave great cows

I know he has been used on heifers, I just never used him myself. He's surely worth a go so. Best of luck with it!

JoeyJones

Thanks Bizzum. I'll have a think about it. Was looking at Curaheen Apostle (APZ) is 2.98% for calving difficulty. He may be a better choice for heifers. Anyone used APZ on heifers and how did they turn out? I'd say his daughters be good for replacements but not as docile as AS12 from looking at ICBF? thanks

Buncha Fives

JoeyJones wrote: »

Thanks Bizzum. I'll have a think about it. Was looking at Curaheen Apostle (APZ) is 2.98% for calving difficulty. He may be a better choice for heifers. Anyone used APZ on heifers and how did they turn out? I'd say his daughters be good for replacements but not as docile as AS12 from looking at ICBF? thanks

The Parthenaise BZB Bolide by Dovea is also suppose to be very easily calved and is bringing some good stock according to other threads...iv a few heifers close to calving and they are carrying BZB calves, il let you know how I get on.

JoeyJones

Thanks Buncha Fives.