Plumes of smoke: Too much oil in engine.

Chuck Stone · 02-04-2012 4:20pm #1

I noticed that there were plumes of grey smoke coming out of the back of the exhaust. I thought there was something wrong with the engine (100K miles Nissan Almera 1.4). Anyhoo I eventually noticed that the plumes of smoke were happening after roundabouts and thought to check the oil which was way too full.

The thing is I had the oil changed about 6 months before I noticed any plumes of smoke so can't figure out why it didn't happen sooner?

I'm guessing the oil was splashing up the inside of the crank case and getting pulled into the pistons and burned out through the exhaust? Does that sound right?

What kind of damage does that do to a car? I have an NCT in a few weeks time.

Anan1 · 02-04-2012 4:40pm

Is there coolant in the oil?

Chuck Stone · 02-04-2012 4:57pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Is there coolant in the oil?

Not that I can see. Wouldn't that make the oil foamy and thick and leave a deposit on the oil filler cap?

None of those symptoms anyway.

Chuck Stone · 02-04-2012 7:15pm

Anyone else have any advice?

martyc5674 · 02-04-2012 7:25pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

[SIZE="1"][COLOR="SlateGray"]Anyone else have any advice?[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Could be unburnt oil sitting in your exhaust box...roundabouts could be dislodging it...to disprove this theory point your car up a sharp incline and have someone rev it a little and see what comes out the back.

Are you burning oil?((as in oil level dropping)

Cuddlesworth · 02-04-2012 7:25pm

Don't sell your tracker mortgage.

Chuck Stone · 02-04-2012 7:45pm

martyc5674 wrote: »

Could be unburnt oil sitting in your exhaust box...roundabouts could be dislodging it...to disprove this theory point your car up a sharp incline and have someone rev it a little and see what comes out the back.

I'll try this in daylight and see what happens. Thanks.

Are you burning oil?((as in oil level dropping)

Nope. Too much in there actually. Syphoning it out with a bit of aquarium air line right now.

martyc5674 · 02-04-2012 8:29pm

Be a lot quicker opening the sump plug...

Chuck Stone · 02-04-2012 9:25pm

martyc5674 wrote: »

Be a lot quicker opening the sump plug...

You're right but I couldn't be bothered getting under the car and I've never done it before so I thought this way was handy enough.

Anan1 · 02-04-2012 9:28pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Nope. Too much in there actually. Syphoning it out with a bit of aquarium air line right now.

Might be an idea to throw up a pic of the oil you remove.

Chuck Stone · 02-04-2012 9:48pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Might be an idea to throw up a pic of the oil you remove.

Here ya go.

Esel · 04-04-2012 3:43am

You took out at least a litre? :eek:

Tbh, I'd check the level again, being sure to leave enough time for all the oil to return to the sump.

Neilw · 04-04-2012 3:52am

If it was a mechanic who changed the oil I'd be giving him a right bolocking, that's just pure laziness for not checking the level.

no1beemerfan · 04-04-2012 5:49am

Is the car belt or chain driven? That much too much isn't good for the engine at all...the extra pressure it would be under would be huge.

dhog4n · 04-04-2012 6:34am

Petrol getting into the oil can cause the level to rise. I had a mk2 jetta years ago and the manual advised regular motorway runs to burn off any petrol that got into the oil. Engine technology moved on quite a bit by the time the almera was built but it's worth considering.

Chuck Stone · 04-04-2012 7:34am

no1beemerfan wrote: »

Is the car belt or chain driven? That much too much isn't good for the engine at all...the extra pressure it would be under would be huge.

Chain afaik.

It isn't smoking up any more so I guess that it was just too much oil in it.

Thanks folks.

no1beemerfan · 04-04-2012 9:27am

Hopefully you'll be ok but I would keep an eye on the engine, a work colleague got her car serviced by a "friend" who overfilled the oil and ended up stretching the timing chain. Cost around €800 to fix!

Leonard Hofstadter · 04-04-2012 10:15am

Isn't it a bit strange for a car to go for six months with too much oil and only present problems now? I would have thought it you overfilled you'd have noticed it a long time ago

?

Is it possible that something else is going on there, and too much oil is a sympton of something at fault (such as water mixing in the oil)?

I don't want to sound like a doomsday merchant, but I always thought that overfilling would have presented consequences a lot sooner than six months?

piston · 04-04-2012 11:04am

I would definitely check for petrol in the sump.

Chuck Stone · 01-05-2012 5:37pm

UPDATE.

Checked the oil yesterday and the level had risen again. I'm pretty sure that petrol is getting into the oil somehow - the oil smells of petrol now.

Does anyone know how that might happen?

I'll be taking it to the mechanic anyway but just interested if anyone has experience of this type of problem.

Nissan doctor · 01-05-2012 7:43pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

UPDATE.

Checked the oil yesterday and the level had risen again. I'm pretty sure that petrol is getting into the oil somehow - the oil smells of petrol now.

Does anyone know how that might happen?

I'll be taking it to the mechanic anyway but just interested if anyone has experience of this type of problem.

Petrol can't get into the engine block/sump with the set up that the Almera uses. Have you checked your coolant level?

Chuck Stone · 01-05-2012 7:56pm

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Petrol can't get into the engine block/sump with the set up that the Almera uses. Have you checked your coolant level?

Yeah, the coolant seems fine.

Nissan doctor · 01-05-2012 8:05pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Yeah, the coolant seems fine.

The only way the oil level can rise is if coolant is getting into it.

When are you checking the oil?

Chuck Stone · 01-05-2012 8:09pm

Nissan doctor wrote: »

The only way the oil level can rise is if coolant is getting into it.

When are you checking the oil?

I took it for an NCT today that I expected to fail (it passed) and checked it when I got home.

The engine was still warm if that's the question...

Nissan doctor · 01-05-2012 8:12pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I took it for an NCT today that I expected to fail (it passed) and checked it when I got home.

The engine was still warm if that's the question...

Hmm, strange, obviously the oil level was ok at the NCT center and the emissions etc were ok so no signs of burning oil.

Tigger · 01-05-2012 8:13pm

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Petrol can't get into the engine block/sump with the set up that the Almera uses. Have you checked your coolant level?

I don't doubt you for a second but will you explain this so I know cos I don't know What you mean

Chuck Stone · 01-05-2012 8:28pm

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Hmm, strange, obviously the oil level was ok at the NCT center and the emissions etc were ok so no signs of burning oil.

Yep. The oil has definitely increased in volume since the last drainage. I was googling a bit and there were mentions of broken or jammed piston rings, problems with the mass air flow thingy and maybe the automatic choke being stuck on too rich a petrol mixture.

None of them were related specifically to an Almera engine mind.

Ring any bells?

BorneTobyWilde · 01-05-2012 8:30pm

Grey smoke,
OK you need to look at air filter, of blocked air intake,
And change fuel filter

Nissan doctor · 01-05-2012 8:33pm

Tigger wrote: »

I don't doubt you for a second but will you explain this so I know cos I don't know What you mean

Fuel is injected into the inlet manifold from an external fuel rail. The only place fuel enters most modern engines is into the cylinders as an air/fuel mix.

The fuel that gets injected into each cylinder is a tiny amount in almost a mist form. The only way for the fuel to get from the cylinder, past the rings and into the sump would be if it was being injected but not burned.....and this is not a situation which can exist in a running engine.

The fuel can mix with oil in certain types of older engine designs which had fuel pumps as part of the engine. It can, in theory, happen with the latest direct injection engines too but won't happen without major running issues.

Chuck Stone · 01-05-2012 8:34pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Grey smoke,

The grey smoke stopped after the last drainage so I guess that was a symptom of the oil/mystery mix getting splashed into the cylinders while cornering(?)

OK you need to look at air filter, of blocked air intake,
And change fuel filter

Could that be causing the petrol air mix to be too rich allowing petrol to drip into the sump??

Nissan doctor · 01-05-2012 8:37pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Yep. The oil has definitely increased in volume since the last drainage. I was googling a bit and there were mentions of broken or jammed piston rings, problems with the mass air flow thingy and maybe the automatic choke being stuck on too rich a petrol mixture.

None of them were related specifically to an Almera engine mind.

Ring any bells?

None of those things could cause the engine oil level to rise. Ring issues would result in an engine that was difficult to start and burned noticeable amounts of oil.

As I said above, the amount of fuel being injected into an engine is minute and on a running engine there is no situation where fuel could leak past the rings into the sump.

corktina · 01-05-2012 9:00pm

I'd check your coolant level again.If the level in our sump is continually rising it really can only be coolant from a headgasket failure doing it (I would have thought)

johnner09 · 01-05-2012 10:06pm

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Fuel is injected into the inlet manifold from an external fuel rail. The only place fuel enters most modern engines is into the cylinders as an air/fuel mix.

The fuel that gets injected into each cylinder is a tiny amount in almost a mist form. The only way for the fuel to get from the cylinder, past the rings and into the sump would be if it was being injected but not burned.....and this is not a situation which can exist in a running engine.

The fuel can mix with oil in certain types of older engine designs which had fuel pumps as part of the engine. It can, in theory, happen with the latest direct injection engines too but won't happen without major running issues.

another smooth explaination ND;)

Chuck Stone · 03-05-2012 1:44pm

Brought the car to the mechanic today and he was kinda miffed about the whole thing. He drained the oil out and commented that it was quite thin liquidy. He ruled out water being in the oil.

I said I'll probably be back in a few weeks.

I'm totally convinced there is petrol getting into the sump but I don't have much of an idea of how it could get in there. I done a bit of googling and found this.

yes this is possible. the usual culprits include a failed fuel pressure regulator, faulty coolant temp sensor, air mass unit or M.A.P. sensor [fuel injected systems.
sticking float, or ruptured power valve diaphragm on carburated systems. a grossely misjetted aftermarket "performance" carb can also do this. as well as vacume hoses improperly connected [such as inadvertantly connecting p.c.v. system into the fuel tank evaporative system and then filling the fuel tank]

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081226173632AA9nJke

Anyone have any further suggestions on how this problem could be diagnosed/fixed?

Thanks in advance lads.

Design_Dude · 03-05-2012 3:57pm

Wouldn't generally trust yahoo answers.

Are you checking oil level when engine cooled?

Nissan doctor · 03-05-2012 4:27pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Brought the car to the mechanic today and he was kinda miffed about the whole thing. He drained the oil out and commented that it was quite thin liquidy. He ruled out water being in the oil.

I said I'll probably be back in a few weeks.

I'm totally convinced there is petrol getting into the sump but I don't have much of an idea of how it could get in there. I done a bit of googling and found this.

Anyone have any further suggestions on how this problem could be diagnosed/fixed?

Thanks in advance lads.

There isn't.

Chuck Stone · 03-05-2012 5:01pm

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There isn't.

If it's not water and not petrol and yet the volume of oil increases then...

challengemaster · 03-05-2012 5:10pm

Did you check the oil levels under the same conditions?

Chuck Stone · 03-05-2012 7:12pm

challengemaster wrote: »

Did you check the oil levels under the same conditions?

Cold and warm?

Yes.

Nissan doctor · 03-05-2012 8:39pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If it's not water and not petrol and yet the volume of oil increases then...

Its not possible for it to be petrol. So if you are 100% certain that its not coolant then you have read the dipstick wrongly methinks.

You know that the oil level will often be higher when the engine is cold then when its hot?

Chuck Stone · 03-05-2012 10:49pm

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Its not possible for it to be petrol. So if you are 100% certain that its not coolant then you have read the dipstick wrongly methinks.

Definitely read the dipstick properly. I thought that when coolant mixes with oil it goes foamy and there'd be condensation on the oil filler cap?

You know that the oil level will often be higher when the engine is cold then when its hot?

No, actually. Though it would be the other way round.

So it's most likely coolant then ya reckon?

Nissan doctor · 03-05-2012 11:16pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Definitely read the dipstick properly. I thought that when coolant mixes with oil it goes foamy and there'd be condensation on the oil filler cap?

No, actually. Though it would be the other way round.

So it's most likely coolant then ya reckon?

By hot(badly worded), I meant after the engine had been running, if you check then, lots of the oil will still be up around the engine and won't have fully drained back into the sump, when cold, all the oil will be back in the sump.

You won't always have condensation, but again though, if the coolant was leaking that badly into the oil system then you would also have running issues and over heating etc. This can happen without immediately noticeable running problems on cars with oil coolers but the almera doesn't have one.

If you have no running issues at all, and your coolant and oil levels are perfect, then just drive it for a week or so and check everything again.

Plumes of smoke: Too much oil in engine.

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