Are priests supposed to be tax compliant?

angeleyes

and supposed to be honest? If I am asking this in the wrong forum I apologise in advance.

I feel that some (not all) priests are totally transparent about their incomes and fringe benefits that can be achieved.

The reason I ask this is that I am a member of a group of volunteers that organise a pilgrimage to Lourdes each year. Some years go I was going to volunteer as treasurer - was rejected vehemently but ok got over that. But over the years somehow not entirely happy with set of "accounts" that we are furnished with each year. I was active in fundraising for said same Lourdes project hoped to get funds from company I worked for to discover that I couldn't as my Lourdes group not registered as a charity despite holding a fund raising draw each year (which required a legal application in court).

Ok can get over that but am beginning to wonder why there is such secrecy around the general fund. If a question is asked the spiritual director ( a priest) he will not answer and one gets the feeling that "how dare you ask - nothing to do with you". This said same priest could have a second career working with RTE on "No Frontiers" he gets to travel so much. I feel that a lot of freebees being offered to other priests in diocese but we dare not question this together with a bit of "overpricing" in the overall cost to travel to Lourdes any year.

It may seem that I am being petty in asking this but is incompetent on me and my fellow volunteers to fund raise with no questions asked and I admit it does leave a sour taste. It looks like that we are being asked to raise money not just for invalids but for priests as well. I have to admit it does not sit well with me. Priests earn extra in offerings for Masses etc and it looks like to me anyway that they do not want to put their own hands into their pockets and pay their way and expect that "idiots" like me will fund raise to bring them on free trips.

I am not saying that priests should live hand to mouth but as we are in a recession - it is harder to fund raise, should we not have more transperancy as to where monies are being used?

Not a priest, not religious and not particularly interested in the world of religion at all. Therefore, my thoughts on this could be completely off the mark.

That said, I would assume that the priest wouldn't pay his own way, nor would he pay for accommodation or such, because it's not a holiday for him. He's (i assume) travelling with a lot of sick or elderly people who will look to him for several reasons over the course of the trip (or so I would assume).

Priests are human, too, and I'd imagine it can be very annoying and it's very easy to get fed up with being asked to pray for someone 24/7 when they're at a destination where everyone from their locality will want them to do something for them.

I would imagine such a trip isn't something your average priest looks forward to, too much. If priests had to pay their own way, chances are you'd have a lack of priests interested in going (unless it were a mandatory trip, which I'd imagine it is not).

Again, I could be completely wrong (I'd look at being a priest as being a job, rather than as a way of life, which would probably contradict the viewpoint of the priests themselves, so I don't really know).


That'd be my initial thought anyway.

angeleyes

Thank you for your input KKV. In this instance the Priests have very little to do with the sick, that is our job (volunteers and nursing staff) . Volunteers and medical volunteers do all the work that is required from every human aspect. Very little imput from priests in that they would "visit" and are asked to say Masses at a very generous stipend. The elderly are often very generous.

I have witnessed priests of my diocese bringing their "lady" friends with them and all under the nose of their boss the Bishop. This is the Catholic Church for you - double standards apply and yet we the poor plebs have to listen while they preach to us.

angeleyes

angeleyes wrote: »

Thank you for your input KKV. In this instance the Priests have very little to do with the sick, that is our job (volunteers and nursing staff) . Volunteers and medical volunteers do all the work that is required from every human aspect. Very little imput from priests in that they would "visit" and are asked to say Masses at a very generous stipend. The elderly are often very generous.

I have witnessed priests of my diocese bringing their "lady" friends with them and all under the nose of their boss the Bishop. This is the Catholic Church for you - double standards apply and yet we the poor plebs have to listen while they preach to us.

Again, I'd look at it as a job, rather than a way of life, so bringing a friend ("with benefits", I think is the nice way of wording it?) wouldn't bother me, personally. I'm aware it's possibly against the rules of being a priest, but again, I'd argue that priests are as human as those they preach to (and if the priest isn't allowed a 'lady friend' etc. then why should those who also follow the same religion be allowed marry?)

Although that's just me rambling, and not really what you were asking about, I know.

I suppose that if the priests are being paid for then it is a working holiday, and although they might get away with doing very little throughout the course of the trip, there's also the possibility they can be swept off their feet with a ludicrous workload (lets be fair, the priest has to be a yes man over there. He can't say no to anyone: it'd make him look terrible).


Are the volunteers or nursing staff paying their own way? If so, why don't ye all just agree to raise the amount of funding that must be achieved (to cover the volunteers/nurses/etc. too?).

I would have assumed that the only people who would actually pay to go on such a holiday, are those who are actually going on a holiday (ie; no duties or responsibilities to worry about). I'd have thought that a trip to Lourdes that involved a priest and two nurses, for example, would require a minimum amount of funding that would need to be achieved in order to get the trip going in the first place, and that this base cost would cover travel and accommodation for the priest and nurses?

Surely this would be a simpler, easier way of doing things (or at least offering a 50% off the retail price of the trip to the volunteers, and guaranteeing they'll have at least X amount of days to themselves to enjoy the place)?

Doc Farrell

In fairness these are quite serious accusations that you are making with serious implications for those involved if they are true.
My advice is to not name anybody on this forum and to contact your bishop if you are genuinely concerned. If the answers you seek are not forthcoming you could contact the media or gardai. However you have to consider the implications that would have on your life if actions were taken.
If you can continue to help the ill and elderly then that is the best course of action and if you think that funds are being spent improperly then you have a duty of conscience to get to the heart of the matter. Where money and relationships are involved things can get very messy very quickly so be sure that your own intentions are as clear and Christian as possible.
I suspect that little money is being wasted, certainly less than might have happened 10 years ago. As for the 'lady friends', do you really need the hassle?
It's easy for a poster here to advise you to write to the bishop but eventually you will be dragged into a very difficult heartbreaking situation. Be careful.

Run_to_da_hills

There is a law in the Us which exempts many churches, religious organisations and charities from tax provided they keep out of politics. Once they get involved, ie start canvasing or siding for candidates or political parties in a run up to an election they can loose their tax exemptions.

prinz

angeleyes wrote: »

I feel that some (not all) priests are totally transparent about their incomes and fringe benefits that can be achieved.

"Fringe benefits"? A trip to Lourdes with the sick and elderly of the parish isn't some freebie junket the parish priest is off on. Is he off by the pool sipping pina coladas during his time? Or is he tending to the group? As for priests wages etc they are paid from a central pot.

angeleyes wrote: »

But over the years somehow not entirely happy with set of "accounts" that we are furnished with each year..

Any idea why not? Or is it all just gut-feeling?

angeleyes wrote: »

I was active in fundraising for said same Lourdes project hoped to get funds from company I worked for to discover that I couldn't as my Lourdes group not registered as a charity despite holding a fund raising draw each year (which required a legal application in court)...

I'd hazard a guess that the reason you couldn't was because the company you work for would have a hard time using the donation to the project as a deductible expense for tax reasons unless it was to a registered charity. That's fair enough. However not every charitable enterprise (i.e. every draw/fundraising project) needs to be registered as a charity. I don't see anything untoward here. I wouldn't expect every parish trip to Lourdes, or the Holy Land, or whereever to be established as a new registered charity.

angeleyes wrote: »

This said same priest could have a second career working with RTE on "No Frontiers" he gets to travel so much. I feel that a lot of freebees being offered to other priests in diocese but we dare not question this together with a bit of "overpricing" in the overall cost to travel to Lourdes any year....

What freebies?

angeleyes wrote: »

It may seem that I am being petty in asking this but is incompetent on me and my fellow volunteers to fund raise with no questions asked and I admit it does leave a sour taste. It looks like that we are being asked to raise money not just for invalids but for priests as well.

Quite possibly you are, but that should only include priests working directly with the group.

angeleyes wrote: »

I have to admit it does not sit well with me. Priests earn extra in offerings for Masses etc and it looks like to me anyway that they do not want to put their own hands into their pockets and pay their way and expect that "idiots" like me will fund raise to bring them on free trips.

"Free trips".... AKA as work for the priest. So you are saying the priest should be paying his way to continue his work someplace he more than likely doesn't have to be at all. I know the one I have experience of one of the priests of the parish are 'invited guests' of the trip on the condition that they work as spiritual leader etc. They aren't off to go sunning themselves in the south of France.

angeleyes wrote: »

I am not saying that priests should live hand to mouth but as we are in a recession - it is harder to fund raise, should we not have more transperancy as to where monies are being used?

The fact that there is a recession on is irrelevant. There should always be transparency as to how resources are being used, but you've been given the accounts I take it? If you think the accounts are being fiddled take it up with whoever prepared them.

angeleyes wrote: »

I have witnessed priests of my diocese bringing their "lady" friends with them and all under the nose of their boss the Bishop. This is the Catholic Church for you - double standards apply and yet we the poor plebs have to listen while they preach to us.

No, this isn't "the Catholic Church for you". Do you have any evidence of wrong-doing? Who are these "lady friends", could it possibly be that they are, despite your insinuation, friends who are paying their own way? What makes you think there is anything untoward going on?

Fail to see the actual issue, other than 2+2=5. If you have genuine concerns that an individual priest, or certain priests, are cooking the books for personal gain, then you can make a call to the Revenue Commissioners. AFAIK they have a confidential hotline.