40km under 1hr

heffsarmy

This is a goal I'd like to achieve, how tough is it? What would be the best training methods? I would like to do it on my road bike, have many of yeh lads on this forum done this. Any advice is welcome, I'm only back cycling, as I have a runnIng injury. At the moment I'd do it in about 73mins approx. A bit of background, I started running in the last 5 years, I have run a 2.35 marathon, I could run faster only I'm getting plaged with injuries. Any advIce welcome.

easygoing39

Can be done,but not easy,doing 25 mph average over an hour is serious stuff!! Doing 20 mph over an hour is something that better than average riders can do,I'd say an average rider training 3 times a week would do 18 -20 mph per hour,to put it all in perspective.Having posted all them facts,Im just waiting for 30 riders to post on here and say they do 26 mph in an hour easy!! LOL

Doc Daneeka

Just to help out...

25mph = 40.2kph
20mph = 32.2kph

Doc

C3PO

I'd be very interested in how many of the regulars here can average 40kms over an hour? Riding on your own obviously! Couldn't get near it myself!

Joey Joe-Joe Jr

If you have run a 2:35 marathon then you're certainly above average fitness. That is seriously quick! With some specific cycle training you should be able to achieve your goal no problem.

There's plenty of lads on here who will be able advise on training, not me though, sorry.

Best of luck, you'll love the bike, no impact injuries, bliss!

Edit: We'll no impact injuries unless you fall off...

12 sprocket

heffsarmy wrote: »

This is a goal I'd like to achieve, how tough is it? What would be the best training methods? I would like to do it on my road bike, have many of yeh lads on this forum done this. Any advice is welcome, I'm only back cycling, as I have a runnIng injury. At the moment I'd do it in about 73mins approx. A bit of background, I started running in the last 5 years, I have run a 2.35 marathon, I could run faster only I'm getting plaged with injuries. Any advIce welcome.

Depending on your age, with capabilities of a 2.35 marathon you shoud have no great difficulty achieving that goal with good training and time trial equipment.. depending on your current state of fitness and how much you train, you might be able to achieve this by the end of this year.

Arthurdaly

RPL1 wrote: »

I'd be very interested in how many of the regulars here can average 40kms over an hour? Riding on your own obviously! Couldn't get near it myself!

Have a look at strava segments and that should give you an indication. There are shortish (10km) flat segments that not many would break 40 kph. There has been recent discussions about a4 pace etc, I guess if someone could average 40 kph they need not worry about sprint finishes or breakaways Youve not mentioned terrain or conditions?

mediwheel

This might help !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhm7-LEBznk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Lumen

40kph on a road bike without aerodynamic aids requires a lot of power.

According to this...

http://bikecalculator.com/wattsMetric.html

You'll need at least 65% more power to go from 1:17 to 1:00, with no change in aerodynamics. That's a lot.

Aerodynamics makes a huge difference, but producing power in an aerodynamic position can be more difficult. Some people find it easier than others.

For it to be a fair test it must be done on an out-and-back course or loop, to reduce effects of wind and gradient.

It would be much easier to achieve with aerobars, skinsuit, shoe covers, deep section/disc wheels and pointy hat, but that stuff isn't cheap and takes away from the achievement somewhat. You would also be faster if you ignored the UCI rule about saddle position, but that's sort of cheating too.

Lumen

One more thing I'd say is that in my experience, cycling at threshold hurts much more than running at threshold, probably because cycling uses a smaller volume of muscle. They don't call it the "pain cave" for nothing.

You're also better off comparing a 40km TT with a half marathon than a marathon.

Cyclists possibly also train more than runners, which makes percentile type comparisons difficult. If you looked at the field of a typical lowest category open road race in cycling, pretty much everyone would be doing at least 8 hours a week. I don't run but I imagine 8 hours a week is on the high side for your average runner.

Beasty

Just to emphasise what Lumen's saying, moving form 39kph to 40kph, a 2.5% increase in speed, requires a nearly 7% increase in power.

I have done 39.5km in the hour on an indoor track, with a normal track bike with aerobars, and wearing a skinsuit and aero helmet. On the road with a TT bike and disc wheel my best 25m TT time is 63m 32s. I should be able to improve on that, but do not think I'll ever get to 40km in the hour outdoors

Having said that, in theory at least, it is possible to go faster outdoors, as the conditions even on an out and back course can vary - the wind may move in your favour, and you can often shelter from any headwind by riding closer to any shelter (such as hedges), while still fully benefitting from a tailwind. Also the faster riders get a lot more drafting benefit either from overtaking others or from passing vehicles

In it's purest form "the hour" should be attempted on an indoor track to eliminate external factors, although as we don't have such a facility at present in Ireland this is impractical for most (even with such a facility you would need to have it to yourself for the whole hour)

Donelson

Silly question, but would it be easier to cycle up a really steep hills for 20mins and then try and free wheel for 40mins to an average of 40km/hr

Lucifer-0

Donelson wrote: »

Silly question, but would it be easier to cycle up a really steep hills for 20mins and then try and free wheel for 40mins to an average of 40km/hr

No.

Beasty

Lucifer-0 wrote: »

No.

Well actually if you are only going up for 20 minutes and can find a route that allows you to go down for 40 it may well make it easier to get to an average of 40kph

If, say, you can average 18kph on the uphill bit, you would need to average 51kph on the downhill bit to get to 40kph. Of course you would then be ending in a completely different place from where you started

If it's an out and back though, the higher the wind, and the more gross climbing involved, the slower you will be

BTW, I managed to average 44.6kph for half a 25m TT last year - it was also a net uphill - unfortunately the 50kph headwind in the other direction did slow me down a bit though...

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

It would be much easier to achieve with aerobars, skinsuit, shoe covers, deep section/disc wheels and pointy hat, but that stuff isn't cheap and takes away from the achievement somewhat. You would also be faster if you ignored the UCI rule about saddle position, but that's sort of cheating too.

Or you could really ignore UCI standards, and use a fully faired recumbent. That would make it a lot easier, provided you can avoid any sustained hill work.

Beasty

... or use a tandem that does satisfy all the UCI regs, and let someone else do all the work ...;)

VanhireBoys

It can be done ... !

I managed 1:03:42 on a 501 Peugeot 23 years ago... I was in good shape then ! Donegal Town - Ballyshannon - Donegal Town ...No chance of doing it now... !

This fella broke 50 mins in 1978 ...! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alf_Engers

This was broken by Chris Boardman in 1993 and stood until Davy McCann took it in 2009 with 45 mins...!


AFAIK these records were set on an out and back course rather than point to point. The latter is far easier ..

dancecatz2000

Wait till there is a nice galeforce wind out cycle in the ssme direction as its blown. Get the train home, on another note if ypu get a small group it would make life alot easier

heffsarmy

Thanks lads for the replies, its not going to be easy as Lumen put the challenge in perspective. Its a long term goal I'd like to complete within the next 24 months if I can. In terms of hours training I currently run 8 hours a week give or take an hour and that would be on the light side compared to some of the lads in the club, putting the time in would'nt be a problem. I'd like to get an idea on specific training sessions. I don't mind traveling to the uk to attempt this, are there any courses in the leinster region? I'll have a better idea if this is realistic goal in the next 6months.

Beasty

There are supposed to be much better TT courses in the North - road quality is better, and they do run regular TTs through the summer.

Locally there are a couple of courses used by the IVCA and some of the local clubs around Dublin - one at Batterstown (to Trim and back) and the other at Moy Valley, which heads to Kinnegad, then back to Enfield and back to Moy Valley - the course is just less than 25m, so the finish is a bit beyond the start

victorcarrera

I've heard that Warrenpoint is one minute faster than Batterstown or Moy Valley over 40Km.

Morrisseeee

I did cycle from Enniscorthy > Ferns (10km) @ 40.5km/h
.......
.......
.......but if it had have been an out & back route the avg would have been 30km/h :pac:

I also have a PB of 49.4km/h for 7km, on the flat, while smoking a cigarette, ...........with the help of a tractor & trailer :cool:

victorcarrera

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I did cycle from Enniscorthy > Ferns (10km) @ 40.5km/h
.......
.......
.......but if it had have been an out & back route the avg would have been 30km/h :pac:

I also have a PB of 49.4km/h for 7km, on the flat, while smoking a cigarette, ...........with the help of a tractor & trailer :cool:

Banana shaped cigarettes can improve your apparent power OK but are illegal in competition.
What kind of ashtray are you running?

niceonetom

This was one of my goals for last year and Ianaged to squeak in under the 60 minutes on the Batterstown-Trim course we use for our club league.

It's a tough challenge to set yourself but certainly doable if you go about it right.

Aero. Go aero. The engine required to do it on a standard road bike in standard kit is massive - A1 riders only, and not all of them I reckon. On a TT bike with skin suit and pointy hat the power needed comes down to something many A3s could do if they focused on it for a few weeks. The equipment isn't enough though, you need to work on the strength and flexibility required to make sure your power output doesn't fall too dramatically as you adopt the most aero position you can sustain.

Power. Make more of it. I just did plenty of 20 minute threshold (or very slightly above threshold) intervals. 2x20, 3x20, 2x30. If you're feeling very motivated you might undertake the hour of power and see how you go but really I could never motivate myself to do that without a minute man to chase or one chasing me. There's a case for doing VO2 intervals too though I didn't.

Suffering. Learn how to. 60 minutes is a very long time to spend at threshold. Your body will be telling you that what you're asking it to do impossible - you need to learn that it is lying to you and be able to believe that. Sheer bloody mindedness is key.

cantalach

It's definitely very possible for non-A1 mortals to do a classic 10 miler (16.09km) with an average speed of 40km/h on a standard road bike with no aero equipment whatsoever (24:08 is the time to beat). So one obvious strategy would be to start with this as a more modest target and build up from there.

Stokolan

I managed a couple of kilometers at an average of 40.5k the other day. But I was sitting in behind a tractor pulling a trailer

Raymzor

In Limerick, Liam Collins of Cycling Pursuits (Name of his shop in Patrickswell) runs a time trial league. The annual league starts in April. The route is 18km from Patrickswell to Croom on the N20 (over a flyover) and back to starting point-top guys clocking 24-26 minutes.

i think this years league will also include a 40km time trial from just outside adare to newcastlewest (new roundabout) and back to starting point. there was a one off event there last year for this 40km route-i heard one guy finished the route in 56 minutes! i think the nearest to him was 62 minutes!

heffsarmy

niceonetom wrote: »

Power. Make more of it. I just did plenty of 20 minute threshold (or very slightly above threshold) intervals. 2x20, 3x20, 2x30.

niceontom did you do your sessions on a turbo? In relation to the pace of the threshold intervals, how close was this to your race pace. Did you do any sessions above your race pace?

niceonetom

heffsarmy wrote: »

niceontom did you do your sessions on a turbo? In relation to the pace of the threshold intervals, how close was this to your race pace. Did you do any sessions above your race pace?

No, I used the road. I have a condition that prevents me from using the turbo unless there is ice on the ground and even then I complain a lot. I actually did most of my intervals either on the mullagh 10m TT course (~24mins on a good day) or on the 25m course but taking a 10 minute recovery at the turn-around point.

I don't really understand what you mean by "race pace". Pace, for me, is determined by HR - I don't use power monitoring and trying to use speed as a metric doesnt work. I know roughly what HR I can sustain for 60 minutes, I know I can withstand that +5 or so Bpm for 23 minutes so I figure my threshold is about there. Focus on that and let pace look after itself.

leftism

niceonetom wrote: »

No, I used the road. I have a condition that prevents me from using the turbo unless there is ice on the ground and even then I complain a lot.

Yes, Hardenthef%ckupitis is indeed a terrible affliction to be burdened with. I'm thinking about setting up a support group for sufferers and their loved ones...

Morrisseeee

victorcarrera wrote: »

Banana shaped cigarettes can improve your apparent power OK but are illegal in competition.
What kind of ashtray are you running?

Ashes.........what ashes :pac:

joker77

niceonetom wrote: »

The equipment isn't enough though, you need to work on the strength and flexibility required to make sure your power output doesn't fall too dramatically as you adopt the most aero position you can sustain.

This is something I think I need to work on (power output falling as I go more aero) - what specifically did you do to improve?

velo.2010

I just got a pair of aerobars to focus a little more on TTing and build some more leg strenght. I find myself at a 'percieved' limit of power output without being able to rotate anymore forward when belting* down the Trim road on the regular road setup.

One slight bother though is the recommended torque setting of 8-10 Nm to fit the things which seems quite high when considereing the usual 4-6 Nm clamping of the stem and bars. I presume its OK - it's just I don't want that sort of clamping pressure leading to a shorter bar life!

*not that fast!;)

niceonetom

joker77 wrote: »

This is something I think I need to work on (power output falling as I go more aero) - what specifically did you do to improve?

For flexibility and general well being I do a bit of yoga when I can be arsed. General core strength is important too so any yoga/pilates/balance-ball stuff that targets the core will work. Planks, down dog, bird dogs, all that stuff.

In terms of muscle recruitment I think more of the power for TTing comes from the glutes and lower back - anecdotally I've heard people (like Nicolas Roche) note how they're sore there after a big TT effort in a way that they never are after being on the road bike. So, time on the TT bike is key for strengthening those muscles and stuff like "pigeon pose" is good for lengthening them so they're not stressed too much by just being down on the extensions.

duffyshuffle

So people haven't really offered much in the way off training tips?

Its one of my targets this year also, the roads in Ireland are a huge disadvantage, as pointed out N. Ireland could be a better bet, and theres more choice of racing.

If that was my main goal, i'd personally find my 1 hour best (power ideally, then HR) effort, then train at that intensity in chunks of work 3 x 15min, 2 x 20min 3 times a week. If you want a longer spin, do a set in a longer spin.

Raymzor

http://www.cyclingpursuits.ie/timetrials/2012/2012ttresultswk4.htm

results from 40km TT last night in Co Limerick. its actually over 40km. site also gives profile of route

Lumen

duffyshuffle wrote: »

If that was my main goal, i'd personally find my 1 hour best (power ideally, then HR) effort, then train at that intensity in chunks of work 3 x 15min, 2 x 20min 3 times a week. If you want a longer spin, do a set in a longer spin.

There is quite a lot of support for the idea of using VO2Max intervals (3-4 minutes@100% of 5 min max power or 5 minutes at ~95% of 5 min max power) to boost both anaerobic work capacity and threshold power. That also has the benefit of not risking becoming a threshold monster who can't "get it up" in a mass start race (whether that risk is real or perceived is debatable).

One of the more pragmatic training strategies I read was something like "when I can do VO2Max intervals I do those. When I can't face those I do threshold intervals. When I can't face those I do a sweet spot session".

Raymzor

Lumen, so heres the thing. i recently did the experiment to establish my max heart rate on two different days on the same hill (15 mins warm up then climb for 5 minutes increasing effort every minute, get off the bike after 5). so in the above TT my max heart rate was actually higher by 2 than the experiments. also my average in the TT was 95% of my max in the TT. i was reasonably happy with my time until i saw all the others. i need to increase my speed 3 km/hr to be more competitive. i therefore think i need to increase my power. how do i do this? any other comments?

Lumen

Raymzor wrote: »

i therefore think i need to increase my power. how do i do this?

Google "cycling vo2max intervals" and "cycling threshold training". There's loads of stuff out there.

cantalach

Lumen wrote: »

There is quite a lot of support for the idea of using VO2Max intervals (3-4 minutes@100% of 5 min max power or 5 minutes at ~95% of 5 min max power) to boost both anaerobic work capacity and threshold power. That also has the benefit of not risking becoming a threshold monster who can't "get it up" in a mass start race (whether that risk is real or perceived is debatable).

Threshold monster...love it! My name is Cantalach and I am a threshold monster. But to be fair to me and threshold monsters everywhere, that's as much to do with natural physiology as much as training approach. I just seem to have feck all fast twitch muscle. 7 years after I started cycling, I still have chicken legs.

Lumen

cantalach wrote: »

Threshold monster...love it! My name is Cantalach and I am a threshold monster. But to be fair to me and threshold monsters everywhere, that's as much to do with natural physiology as much as training approach. I just seem to have feck all fast twitch muscle. 7 years after I started cycling, I still have chicken legs.

I don't think short term power in cycling terms has much to do with fast twitch muscles. Even a 30s sprint might have 60 "reps".

Super-threshold efforts are about lactate/ph tolerance and cardiovascular fitness (stroke volume, blood pipes etc)...

jimbo28

I trained really hard last year for the connacht TT championships and managed the 25 mile course on the hour.............on the road bike with no tt gear other than the clip on's.So if i was you i would just train hard:).

fixie fox

Raymzor wrote: »

In Limerick, Liam Collins of Cycling Pursuits (Name of his shop in Patrickswell) runs a time trial league. The annual league starts in April. The route is 18km from Patrickswell to Croom on the N20 (over a flyover) and back to starting point-top guys clocking 24-26 minutes.

i think this years league will also include a 40km time trial from just outside adare to newcastlewest (new roundabout) and back to starting point. there was a one off event there last year for this 40km route-i heard one guy finished the route in 56 minutes! i think the nearest to him was 62 minutes!

Results here - http://www.cyclingpursuits.ie/timetrials/2012/2012ttresultswk4.htm

fixie fox

Raymzor wrote: »

its actually over 40km.

Give me hope - how much over?

Raymzor

my gps hit it at 40.2km +!:D

fixie fox

Raymzor wrote: »

my gps hit it at 200m+!:D

Not a lot of hope in that - but thanks anyway.

macnab

I told myself to ignore this thread, just do my usual training.
I had a look at strava to see what was my best/fastest KOM (i have 2) just out of curiosity.
However, as I approached the said segment today I couldnt help but notice that the wind was with me. An animal instinct took me over and suddenly I was trashing the pedals like a man possessed.
My heart rate climbed to new heights, whether through anticipation or work rate I couldn't be sure.
9.1km of torture later I allowed myself a mental pat on the back and a grin.
I decided the last 12km of my spin would be done at an easy pace, however the need to upload my stats and prove that I had just cycled 9.1km at a rate of at least 40km/h was just too much to ignore.
Now given that my KOM for this segment was set at an average of 37.5km/h last year I expected great things, as in historic results.

























38km/h.................speechless.

fixie fox

Calling Garmin 500 nerds!
I'm gonna upgrade from Polar CS 100 to Garmin 500. Am I correct in thinking that the Garmin will pick up the polar strap and cadence sensors on two bikes? - I'm trying to save money, for the time being at least:rolleyes: (oops - wrong thread- moved)

Raymzor

dont think polar hrm, cad meter are compatible with garmin

MungoMan

Anyone know how many average watts you need to generate to do 40km in an hour on a flat course with no wind ? Must be at least 500watts. For sure it's a level of output I could only dream of.

And how many calories burned ?

Lumen

MungoMan wrote: »

Anyone know how many average watts you need to generate to do 40km in an hour on a flat course with no wind ? Must be at least 500watts

Nowhere near that. Somewhere between 250W and 350W, depending on how small/aero you are. The time is irrelevant, 40kph is 40kph.