Irish Rail - Fare evasion fine

rabbit assassin

Hey guys,
I am not going to bore you with my big long story about why I got a Fixed Penalty Notice on a train home from work the other day. Basically a long story short, I had a ticket as I always do, was about to get off at my stop when I noticed one of my bags was gone :eek: Im sure you've all had that moment when your heart stops and you almost collapse with the thought of someone robbing yer bag ! So before I knew it the doors were closed and the train was starting to move. I said right ok Ill get off at the next stop (everything in the bag was replaceable) So the next stop was 2 minutes away and I was about to get off when the ticket inspector asked for my ticket. I showed him and he pointed out I should have got off at the last stop. I agreed and was about to tell him what happened when he told me to "save it" and to appeal the fine if I wasnt happy. He also refused to let me off the train at the next station and I had to go a further 10 minutes to the next stop, get off the train and get another single ticket back to my original destination as thats where my car was parked. The fine is for €109.50 and I am wondering what are the chances of them letting the fine go or even reducing it,

ALSO - when writing the ticket he dated it 27/03/2011 when it was 27/03/2012 !!! Since the ticket has the 2011 date on it does this mean it is even valid ????

foggy_lad

The wrong date and the fact that he refused to allow you to leave sounds like a good appeal! did he physically restrain you? you should just prove you were not on a train on the date on the fine notice!

rabbit assassin

foggy_lad wrote: »

The wrong date and the fact that he refused to allow you to leave sounds like a good appeal! did he physically restrain you? you should just prove you were not on a train on the date on the fine notice!

He didnt physically restrain me, he told me I couldnt get off the train. He could have wrote the ticket in 2 seconds and let me get off but he paused and waited until we moved off from the station and then wrote it. I was hoping the fact that he dated it to last year instead of this year would mean that the fine was invalid. I sent them an email but have heard nothing. Tried calling them all today and no answer what so ever

Alot of my friends have said that I was so stupid in giving my real name and address but I have never been in that situation before and just panicked and answered with my real name and address

foggy_lad

rabbit assassin wrote: »

He didnt physically restrain me, he told me I couldnt get off the train. He could have wrote the ticket in 2 seconds and let me get off but he paused and waited until we moved off from the station and then wrote it. I was hoping the fact that he dated it to last year instead of this year would mean that the fine was invalid. I sent them an email but have heard nothing. Tried calling them all today and no answer what so ever

Alot of my friends have said that I was so stupid in giving my real name and address but I have never been in that situation before and just panicked and answered with my real name and address

He should have let you get off at the stop you wanted to get off at! by not doing so he has cost you money by making your following journey more expensive. he should have got off the train and continued to write your penalty fare but was obvioulsy not prepared to wait for the next train at that station.

This staff member has cost you money through no fault of your own! you should immediately make a complaint about his conduct to Irish Rail and also appeal the penalty fare/fine.

LLU

In before the "Its-your-own-fault-you-knew-full-well-you-were-on-a-train-without-a-valid-ticket-you-deserve-everything-that's-coming-to-you" brigade. :rolleyes:

Carawaystick

send them an invoice for consultation fees for the same amount

report the missing bag to the cops and get a pulse number.

hang tough and go to court. Let them present their case and let them state the date the incident happened. then play your trump incorrect date ticket, to bring reasonable doubt on their evidence....

I don't know how likely any of this is to work...

AlekSmart

As a matter of interest,what is the difference,if any,between fares to each station....?

PCPhoto

rabbit assassin wrote: »

He didnt physically restrain me, he told me I couldnt get off the train. He could have wrote the ticket in 2 seconds and let me get off but he paused and waited until we moved off from the station and then wrote it. I was hoping the fact that he dated it to last year instead of this year would mean that the fine was invalid. I sent them an email but have heard nothing. Tried calling them all today and no answer what so ever

Alot of my friends have said that I was so stupid in giving my real name and address but I have never been in that situation before and just panicked and answered with my real name and address

Get to a solicitor and claim false imprisonment* .... so you make more money from Irish Rail than they do with you.

*= not legal advice ..... seriously though....go seek the advice of a solicitor.

An Udaras

Or just put it down bad luck & pay the fine and avoid any undue stress or hassle of receiving numourous warning letters along a possible court appearance and paying for a solicitor..

MyKeyG

OP phone them up, tell them what happened and leave them in no doubt that you have absolutely no intention to pay. Tell them you are considering legal advice concerning the manner with which you were dealt even if you're not. Tell them that you were unfairly treated and any efforts on their part to pursue payment of the fine will be considered harassment. It's technically not but believe me if you bleat your case well enough they'll write it off. Nobody is bringing anybody to court over €100 when people are having their roofs whipped from over their heads.

Davidth88

Missing your station and intending to get off at the next and return can't be classed as fare evasion can it ?

Your car was parked at the other station .

You should appeal that for sure .

corktina

LLU wrote: »

In before the "Its-your-own-fault-you-knew-full-well-you-were-on-a-train-without-a-valid-ticket-you-deserve-everything-that's-coming-to-you" brigade. :rolleyes:

the guy has asked for opinions. Are you suggesting that anyone with this opinion need not answer? It's all a bit pointless then isn't it?

goingnowhere

Irish Rail have a prima facia case, passenger without valid ticket for journey undertaken. So issue of fine is not unreasonable.

The ticket inspector has the legal power to arrest without warrant and failure to comply with the instructions of the inspector is grounds for arrest.

ronano

Contact Irish Rail to get it dropped, if they dont and you want to take the risk it to court then go for it. Bring copies of everything you sent them and have clear statement prepared as to the events. Tbh i hate the idea of letting them get away with it and i've been in ticket in court situation in scenario i thought unfair and got off but still probably would pay the fine rather than take the risk. Irish rail look for costs but judge when i was up wasnt having any of it.

Lousy situation, if it was me i'd fight it until before it ends up in court and just pay it.

Dravokivich

You've already e-mailed them to appeal. Wait for a response.

Only point you need to focus on, is that you missed getting off at your stop which you had a valid ticket for.

rabbit assassin

AlekSmart wrote: »

As a matter of interest,what is the difference,if any,between fares to each station....?

The difference in fare is massive because I had to cross border county (dublin-meath) I originally was getting off at balbriggan as thats where my car was parked in the station car park but as I said I then planned to get off at the very next station (gormanston) which is about 2 minutes away and just across the border. I then had to go on to the next station as he refused to let me exit the train. I then had to go even further out of my way and get another train back to Balbriggan :mad: It costs me €4.70 Bray -Balbriggan yet if I want to go 2 minutes further and into the next county it shoots up to €9.50.

Tarabuses

Davidth88 wrote: »

Missing your station and intending to get off at the next and return can't be classed as fare evasion can it ?

Your car was parked at the other station .

You should appeal that for sure .

I always thought that if you missed your station (fell asleep for example or distracted as was OP) that you were entitled to travel back to your intended destination. It seems unreasonable to fine someone in the circumstances outlined.

highnc

Tarabuses wrote: »

I always thought that if you missed your station (fell asleep for example or distracted as was OP) that you were entitled to travel back to your intended destination. It seems unreasonable to fine someone in the circumstances outlined.

i'm sure if that's the case, everyone would try that trick! perhaps they've heard this story before so they have to be consistent and say it's your responsibility to get off the train at the correct stop

MyKeyG

corktina wrote: »

the guy has asked for opinions. Are you suggesting that anyone with this opinion need not answer? It's all a bit pointless then isn't it?

The guy asked for opinions on how he should pursue what he considers a wrong that was done to him not opinions willy nilly. Quite a few suggestions were presented that were very much on point so no it's not pointless at all is it? What he doesn't need is a bunch of ego maniacs wagging their finger, which incidentally would qualify as going off topic! Comprendé?

Dravokivich

highnc wrote: »

i'm sure if that's the case, everyone would try that trick! perhaps they've heard this story before so they have to be consistent and say it's your responsibility to get off the train at the correct stop

As far as I can tell, for commuter rail / dart, it's only possible to purchase a return ticket to a destination from the stop you leave from on the first journey.

If this is to be used as a "getting around the system for an extra stop," it wouldn't make much sense to waste your time in the morning to get a return ticket at the cheaper fare.

MyKeyG

highnc wrote: »

i'm sure if that's the case, everyone would try that trick! perhaps they've heard this story before so they have to be consistent and say it's your responsibility to get off the train at the correct stop

I did see it once on an intercity from Cork to Dublin. She was supposed to get off at Portlaoise and slept through her stop. When she informed the ticket guy he actually told her to get off at the next stop which was Kildare and get on the train going back! His exact words were 'tell yer man what happened and you'll be grand'.

It may not be officially written in stone but he was fairly confident that it would work so maybe it's a more common sense approach that's exercised.

Hilly Bill

Im usually sceptic about these threads and tend to see that they were in the wrong and just chancing their arm but going by what the OP has said then he has been treated badly in this case in my opinion. The OP had nothing to gain by going the extra stop so it made no sense for him to get off there.
Whilst the ticket chap had only the OP's word that he missed the stop , he should have been a bit more polite in dealing with it and let the OP off at the stop he was getting off.
To me it sounds that the OP has a strong case in the fact that his car was parked at an earlier stop and he had nothing to gain from going the extra stop and the fact the wrong date was written on the ticket which could be the clincher. Irish Rail will only take you to court if they have a strong case and this doesnt look like one.
The Ticket chap should be reported for his attitude as it make Irish Rail look bad and they wont want that.

schemingbohemia

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Im usually sceptic about these threads and tend to see that they were in the wrong and just chancing their arm but going by what the OP has said then he has been treated badly in this case in my opinion. The OP had nothing to gain by going the extra stop so it made no sense for him to get off there.
Whilst the ticket chap had only the OP's word that he missed the stop , he should have been a bit more polite in dealing with it and let the OP off at the stop he was getting off.
To me it sounds that the OP has a strong case in the fact that his car was parked at an earlier stop and he had nothing to gain from going the extra stop and the fact the wrong date was written on the ticket which could be the clincher. Irish Rail will only take you to court if they have a strong case and this doesnt look like one.
The Ticket chap should be reported for his attitude as it make Irish Rail look bad and they wont want that.

I would say the problem was with where it actually happened. As the OP knows Balbriggan is the end of the Short Hop zone and Gormanston is outside it, I'm sure the same thing happens with people at Kilcock and Enfield only paying as far as Maynooth and staying on. If it had happened at Portmarnock and the OP was getting off in Balbriggan to go back the Inspector would likely have let it go.

Under the bye-laws afaik the Inspector can detain the person to write them a standard fare so surely that's what happened here?

Dravokivich

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I would say the problem was with where it actually happened. As the OP knows Balbriggan is the end of the Short Hop zone and Gormanston is outside it, I'm sure the same thing happens with people at Kilcock and Enfield only paying as far as Maynooth and staying on. If it had happened at Portmarnock and the OP was getting off in Balbriggan to go back the Inspector would likely have let it go.

Under the bye-laws afaik the Inspector can detain the person to write them a standard fare so surely that's what happened here?

You can only do this though if you buy a one way ticket. Not a return ticket which the OP would of had.

Losty Dublin

Dravokivich wrote: »

You can only do this though if you buy a one way ticket. Not a return ticket which the OP would of had.

That's right; OP said their car was parked at this end of the trip so we can assume that either it was a single ticket coming back or else a return leg home.

OP, your best course of action for you is to type up a clear and concise letter into the Revenue Protection Unit in Connoly Station. Apologise for what happened, include the ID number on the notice you got and in clear and reasonable language explain what happened to you that led to your being on board beyond the stop you intended to board on. Once done, ask if any accommodation can be arrived at in your case and that you'd appreciate any help that can be offered. Stick it into registered mail and hope for the best and maybe something can be done. An e mail for things like this often won't get noticed, hence putting it into print

n97 mini

goingnowhere wrote: »

The ticket inspector has the legal power to arrest without warrant and failure to comply with the instructions of the inspector is grounds for arrest.

What???! Even the army and the naval service don't have that power.

LLU

corktina wrote: »

the guy has asked for opinions. Are you suggesting that anyone with this opinion need not answer? It's all a bit pointless then isn't it?

Wasn't suggesting that at all. In fact the letter of the law probably means that the OP should pay the fine but taking him at his word, it was exceptional circumstances and maybe he should have been cut some slack. But so often with threads like this you'll see responses which range from unsympathetic to downright rude and agressive and these are even less constructive.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

As a matter of interest,what is the difference,if any,between fares to each station....?

Quite a lot as it happened but regardless of the cost should the Irish rail employee have inconvenienced the op even further by refusing to leave the train at the op's chosen stop to write out the ticket?

goingnowhere wrote: »

Irish Rail have a prima facia case, passenger without valid ticket for journey undertaken. So issue of fine is not unreasonable.

The ticket inspector has the legal power to arrest without warrant and failure to comply with the instructions of the inspector is grounds for arrest.

prima facia case yes, but the Irish Rail employee should not have brought the op farther than the stop they wished to exit the train at! the ticket inspector should have left the train with the op and written out the ticket on the platform! By refusing to allow the op leave the train they have cost the op money as well as a lot of time and possibly extra car parking fees!

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Im usually sceptic about these threads and tend to see that they were in the wrong and just chancing their arm but going by what the OP has said then he has been treated badly in this case in my opinion. The OP had nothing to gain by going the extra stop so it made no sense for him to get off there.
Whilst the ticket chap had only the OP's word that he missed the stop , he should have been a bit more polite in dealing with it and let the OP off at the stop he was getting off.
To me it sounds that the OP has a strong case in the fact that his car was parked at an earlier stop and he had nothing to gain from going the extra stop and the fact the wrong date was written on the ticket which could be the clincher. Irish Rail will only take you to court if they have a strong case and this doesnt look like one.
The Ticket chap should be reported for his attitude as it make Irish Rail look bad and they wont want that.

regardless of the appeal against the fine which is possibly warranted, I think the op has even stronger grounds to make an official complaint to Irish Rail against the ticket inspector for false imprisonment as well as the extra costs in time as well as money involved in being brought far beyond their intended destination! He did not have to be polite with someone he considers a fare evader but he does have to follow the rules and all applicable laws, bye-laws and guidelines as set by statute as well as by his employer.

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I would say the problem was with where it actually happened. As the OP knows Balbriggan is the end of the Short Hop zone and Gormanston is outside it, I'm sure the same thing happens with people at Kilcock and Enfield only paying as far as Maynooth and staying on. If it had happened at Portmarnock and the OP was getting off in Balbriggan to go back the Inspector would likely have let it go.

Under the bye-laws afaik the Inspector can detain the person to write them a standard fare so surely that's what happened here?

so how was the op going to get back to their car in Balbriggan? also the inspector may detain the person on the platform or on the train but only to the next station, it looks very much like the ticket inspector wanted to deliberately inconvenience the op and this must be investigated and dismissal proceedings started if proved to be the case.

Hilly Bill

It wasnt false imprisonment Foggy , the inspector had the right to hold him until he finished issuing the fine but i guess you already know that .He did



He did not have to be polite with someone he considers a fare evader

Yes he does, even if he is getting abuse.

Hilly Bill

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I would say the problem was with where it actually happened. As the OP knows Balbriggan is the end of the Short Hop zone and Gormanston is outside it, I'm sure the same thing happens with people at Kilcock and Enfield only paying as far as Maynooth and staying on. If it had happened at Portmarnock and the OP was getting off in Balbriggan to go back the Inspector would likely have let it go.

Under the bye-laws afaik the Inspector can detain the person to write them a standard fare so surely that's what happened here?

Thats fair enough but in this case the OP had nothing to gain as his car was in Balbriggan not Gormanstown.

MyKeyG

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It wasnt false imprisonment Foggy , the inspector had the right to hold him until he finished issuing the fine

On what authority pray tell?

Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997

15.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of false imprisonment who intentionally or recklessly—

(a) takes or detains, or

(b) causes to be taken or detained, or

(c) otherwise restricts the personal liberty of,

another without that other's consent.

(2) For the purposes of this section, a person acts without the consent of another if the person obtains the other's consent by force or threat of force, or by deception causing the other to believe that he or she is under legal compulsion to consent.

(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—

(a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both, or

(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life.

I'm pretty sure Iarnrod Eireann gorillas aren't above the law nor do they possess arrest powers. But I'm sure you knew that;)

Dravokivich

MyKeyG wrote: »

On what authority pray tell?

There's bye laws in place that allow them to. Its been referenced several times within this forum before. I'm suprised by the shock of such when people yammer on about it again and again.

Hilly Bill

MyKeyG wrote: »

On what authority pray tell?

Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997

15.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of false imprisonment who intentionally or recklessly—

(a) takes or detains, or

(b) causes to be taken or detained, or

(c) otherwise restricts the personal liberty of,

another without that other's consent.

(2) For the purposes of this section, a person acts without the consent of another if the person obtains the other's consent by force or threat of force, or by deception causing the other to believe that he or she is under legal compulsion to consent.

(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—

(a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both, or

(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life.

I'm pretty sure Iarnrod Eireann gorillas aren't above the law nor do they possess arrest powers. But I'm sure you knew that;)

The OP wasnt arrested nor was he imprisoned but you knew that didnt you

MyKeyG

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The OP wasnt arrested nor was he imprisoned but you knew that didnt you

You claimed the inspector had the right to hold the OP, that it wasn't false imprisonment. I posted a law claiming that False imprisonment is exactly that!

(a) takes or detains, or

(b) causes to be taken or detained, or

(c) otherwise restricts the personal liberty of,(by detaining them?

another without that other's consent.

See what I'm getting at? One plus one equals? There's a good little girl. If the inspector detains the OP it's legal imprisonment. Incidentally I haven't read every thread on boards since I have a life so if you lads can stop rubbing each others nipples for a second and post up them bye laws that would be grand. Now I have to go explain this to a group of chimpanzees. Shouldn't take too long with them though.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It wasnt false imprisonment Foggy , the inspector had the right to hold him until he finished issuing the fine but i guess you already know that .He did

So if you were on the Cork train going to Kildare and an inspector got on and detained you as far as Templemore and the return to Kildare wasn't for two hours because they were writing out the fine is that legal? I wouldn't think so!

As I stated already which you must have read but ignored, the inspector or any Irish Rail staff member(may have the right to detain you on a platform or until the next station but) can not lawfully detain you on a train past your intended stop. the train should have been held until the ticket inspector had finished writing the ticket or he should have not been so lazy and got off the train with the op and finished the job on the platform!

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

So if you were on the Cork train going to Kildare and an inspector got on and detained you as far as Templemore and the return to Kildare wasn't for two hours because they were writing out the fine is that legal? I wouldn't think so!

As I stated already which you must have read but ignored, the inspector or any Irish Rail staff member(may have the right to detain you on a platform or until the next station but) can not lawfully detain you on a train past your intended stop. the train should have been held until the ticket inspector had finished writing the ticket or he should have not been so lazy and got off the train with the op and finished the job on the platform!

What ifs means nothing foggy.
may have the right to detain you on a platform or until the next station
Thats what happened.


The Op had already past his intended stop . Agreed that all the inspector had to do was hold the door open until he issued the ticket but we dont know if it was as straight forward as that or if the OP was arguing with him which would have delayed the train .
I doubt if being lazy had anything to do with the inspector not going off the train.

MyKeyG

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What ifs means nothing foggy.
The Op had already past his intended stop . Agreed that all the inspector had to do was hold the door open until he issued the ticket but we dont know if it was as straight forward as that or if the OP was arguing with him which would have delayed the train .
I doubt if being lazy had anything to do with the inspector not going off the train.

Interesting!

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What ifs means nothing foggy.
may have the right to detain you on a platform or until the next station
Thats what happened.


The Op had already past his intended stop . Agreed that all the inspector had to do was hold the door open until he issued the ticket but we dont know if it was as straight forward as that or if the OP was arguing with him which would have delayed the train .
I doubt if being lazy had anything to do with the inspector not going off the train.

rabbit assassin wrote: »

Hey guys,
I am not going to bore you with my big long story about why I got a Fixed Penalty Notice on a train home from work the other day. Basically a long story short, I had a ticket as I always do, was about to get off at my stop when I noticed one of my bags was gone :eek: Im sure you've all had that moment when your heart stops and you almost collapse with the thought of someone robbing yer bag ! So before I knew it the doors were closed and the train was starting to move. I said right ok Ill get off at the next stop (everything in the bag was replaceable) So the next stop was 2 minutes away and I was about to get off when the ticket inspector asked for my ticket. I showed him and he pointed out I should have got off at the last stop. I agreed and was about to tell him what happened when he told me to "save it" and to appeal the fine if I wasnt happy.

He also refused to let me off the train at the next station and I had to go a further 10 minutes to the next stop, get off the train and get another single ticket back to my original destination as thats where my car was parked. The fine is for €109.50 and I am wondering what are the chances of them letting the fine go or even reducing it,

ALSO - when writing the ticket he dated it 27/03/2011 when it was 27/03/2012 !!! Since the ticket has the 2011 date on it does this mean it is even valid ????

The ticket inspector was rude and also through his direct actions penalised the op beyond the scope of the penalty fare as well as detaining the op beyond their intended destination!

If you buy a ticket from Connolly to Leixlip but fall asleep or like the op get delayed by a missing bag and end up missing the doors in Leixlip but intend going directly back to Leixlip from Maynooth but get stopped in Maynooth the inspector does not have the right or authority to keep you on the train until Kilcock, Enfield or Mullingar and certainly has no right to further PENALISE you by increasing the penalty fare by increasing the length and cost of your onward journey.

n97 mini

MyKeyG wrote: »

You claimed the inspector had the right to hold the OP, that it wasn't false imprisonment. I posted a law claiming that False imprisonment is exactly that!

I looked up the Rail Safety Act and unbelievably an "Authorised Agent" has the powers to detain someone whilst on IE property. An Authorised Agent is someone appointed so by the Board.

Now they still don't have the authority to physically touch anyone, so if you decide you don't want to be detained I'm not sure there is much that they can do to prevent you from leaving.

goingnowhere

Then they can arrest you under the provisions of the Transport Act

foggy_lad

I would make an official complaint op in writing or by email and I would be seeking the dismissal of this ticket inspector or at the very least his permanent removal from any customer facing role, because someone in such an important role can not be seen to be acting independently of or outside the scope of the company's own bye-laws.

foggy_lad

goingnowhere wrote: »

Then they can arrest you under the provisions of the Transport Act

The op was not arrested and the Gardai were not called! The op was unlawfully detained on a moving train past their intended stop.

MyKeyG

n97 mini wrote: »

I looked up the Rail Safety Act and unbelievably an "Authorised Agent" has the powers to detain someone whilst on IE property. An Authorised Agent is someone appointed so by the Board.

Now they still don't have the authority to physically touch anyone, so if you decide you don't want to be detained I'm not sure there is much that they can do to prevent you from leaving.

You're right there's not. It really depends on your definition of detention. Asking someone to remain where they are is not detaining them per sé. I would be very much of the opinion that it would invariably require physical restraint if the individual in question did not wish to be 'detained' in the non physical way. If the individual complied then fair enough.

MyKeyG

goingnowhere wrote: »

Then they can arrest you under the provisions of the Transport Act

People making an awful lot of claims here without the ould hard evidence to back it up. I'd be interested in the wording that accompanies that claim as I would suspect these 'powers' are not arbitrary and certainly not in the context of fare dodging!

saa

rabbit assassin wrote: »

Hey guys,

ALSO - when writing the ticket he dated it 27/03/2011 when it was 27/03/2012 !!! Since the ticket has the 2011 date on it does this mean it is even valid ????

Yes it is valid as its logged as 2012 elsewhere and legally that would not stand up as a reason not the pay, you should payit if there is no way out trust me it is not worth going to court or having a massive fine for the sake of 100 euro (unless its the household charge weh weh weh).

I would report the incident to lost property, see if cctv shows it being knicked and you might get you off the hook at someones discretion but your property is not their responsibility.
I do have a feeling there might be a bit of leeway, my friend lost her ticket and was let off at the gate but then again she is a very attractive woman, typical. So maybe with a nice letter, email and call to appeal your case, also if where you bought the ticket is a small station they cashier might remember you I mean really quiet or if you bought it with a card there will be a record of purchase.

Hungerford

goingnowhere wrote: »

Then they can arrest you under the provisions of the Transport Act

Under the Railway Safety Act, an authorised officer can only discharge their powers, such as arrest, if "he or she has received training and instruction" which satisfies that Railway Safety Commission "is such as will provide guidance to him or her in the exercise of the power".

No training and no approval from the RSC equals no power of detention or, indeed, no power to remove someone from railway property.

Indeed, the only transport body that I have heard of arresting people in Ireland is the Airport Police, and that power is granted to them under Air Navigation and Transport (Amendment) Act 1998.

Hungerford

MyKeyG wrote: »

I would suspect these 'powers' are not arbitrary and certainly not in the context of fare dodging!

The powers basically apply for:
(a) failure to shut a crossing gate;
(b) pulling an emergency cord/device in a case where there was no emergency;
(c) fare dodging

Interestingly, in the case of fare dodging, there seems to be no power of arrest unless you refuse to pay the fine.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

I would make an official complaint op in writing or by email and I would be seeking the dismissal of this ticket inspector or at the very least his permanent removal from any customer facing role, because someone in such an important role can not be seen to be acting independently of or outside the scope of the company's own bye-laws.

thats an over reaction even by your standards foggy seeing that you have only one side of the story. I think it would make your day if you heard that anyone in irish rail lost their job.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

I would make an official complaint op in writing or by email and I would be seeking the dismissal of this ticket inspector or at the very least his permanent removal from any customer facing role, because someone in such an important role can not be seen to be acting independently of or outside the scope of the company's own bye-laws.

foggy_lad wrote: »

The op was not arrested and the Gardai were not called! The op was unlawfully detained on a moving train past their intended stop.

dont try and make it look like the inspector made him miss his intended stop. Did you expect the op to be let off a moving train?.

Mimikyu

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foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

dont try and make it look like the inspector made him miss his intended stop. Did you expect the op to be let off a moving train?.

That is exactly what did happen!


The train had stopped in Gormanstown and the inspector refused to let the op off there and forced him to stay on the train as far as Laytown, you should probably read thread carefully instead of imagining how it was!

Op should have got off the train at Balbriggan but stayed on board to look for their bag and then was too late to get off as the doors had closed, as the train pulled into Gormanstown the op was approached by an ignorant and rude ticket inspector who detained him on the train beyond the point he wanted to alight which was Gormanstown!

There was never a question of the op trying to or wanting to get off a moving train.