2011 Census Same sex couples living together

DubArk

Our Population is 4.58 million and according to the 2011 census there were 4,042 same sex couples living together. This seems a tiny number.

Do you think people didn’t answer this honestly as it’s still taboo here in Ireland or is it a true reflection?

Source http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0329/divorce-rate-up-150-since-2002-census.html

foggy_lad

DubArk wrote: »

Our Population is 4.58 million and according to the 2011 census there were 4,042 same sex couples living together. This seems a tiny number.

Do you think people didn’t answer this honestly as it’s still taboo here in Ireland or is it a true reflection?

Source http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0329/divorce-rate-up-150-since-2002-census.html

Maybe many same sex couples(especially men) don't live together? Could it be that men or women describe themselves as couples but are continuing to live in their own separate houses? Many couples will tell you they are only together so long because they live separately and meet some days/nights for meals socialising and sex.

ongarboy

foggy_lad wrote: »

Maybe many same sex couples(especially men) don't live together? Could it be that men or women describe themselves as couples but are continuing to live in their own separate houses? Many couples will tell you they are only together so long because they live separately and meet some days/nights for meals socialising and sex.

Just looking at the census results (p 27 of attached), the question posed in the census was for those couples that actually lived together. I'm also surprised the number is so small. My opinion would be that a majority of same sex couples who presumably would be in an established relationship which is why they are living together as a household unit and therefore would be comfortable in truthfully declaring so on their census returns. Would that be a fair comment?

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011pdr/Census%202011%20Highlights%20Part%201.pdf

foggy_lad

ongarboy wrote: »

Just looking at the census results (p 27 of attached), the question posed in the census was for those couples that actually lived together. I'm also surprised the number is so small. My opinion would be that a majority of same sex couples who presumably would be in an established relationship which is why they are living together as a household unit and therefore would be comfortable in truthfully declaring so on their census returns. Would that be a fair comment?

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011pdr/Census%202011%20Highlights%20Part%201.pdf

Fair comment but it begs the question why are there so few same sex people in committed relationships? If theoretically up to 10% of the population are gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered why are so few prepared to commit to a relationship?

another point was the number of the same sex couples who "considered" themselves to be married, http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011pdr/Census%202011%20Highlights%20Part%201.pdf

Most same-sex couples were cohabiting (3,876) but 166
indicated that they were married couples

Why did so few committed cohabiting couples feel they were not married or living together as a married couple?

Dr. Baltar

It's early days and yes, there's a bit of a taboo. 19 years ago it was illegal to be gay and now our biggest problem as that we thought there would be more "married" gay couples on the census? Relax.

DubArk

foggy_lad wrote: »

Maybe many same sex couples(especially men) don't live together? Could it be that men or women describe themselves as couples but are continuing to live in their own separate houses? Many couples will tell you they are only together so long because they live separately and meet some days/nights for meals socialising and sex.

My experience is that I know far more men than women living together but then that’s only me, not a statistical fact. I think that many same sex couples don’t have to emulate the traditional heterosexual couples/relationship by moving in with one another and keeping some independence.

ongarboy wrote: »

Just looking at the census results (p 27 of attached), the question posed in the census was for those couples that actually lived together. I'm also surprised the number is so small. My opinion would be that a majority of same sex couples who presumably would be in an established relationship which is why they are living together as a household unit and therefore would be comfortable in truthfully declaring so on their census returns. Would that be a fair comment?

Of course I hadn’t taken that into account how the question was posed. Very fair comment.

Annasopra

DubArk wrote: »

Our Population is 4.58 million and according to the 2011 census there were 4,042 same sex couples living together. This seems a tiny number.

Do you think people didn’t answer this honestly as it’s still taboo here in Ireland or is it a true reflection?

Source http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0329/divorce-rate-up-150-since-2002-census.html

I think people are only very slowly getting used to being open about this stuff. When you look at the data over time you can see that pattern

2011 4042 gay couples
2006 2090 gay couples (nearly two thirds male)
2002 1300 gay couples
1996 150 gay couples

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011pdr/Census%202011%20Highlights%20Part%201.pdf

http://www.glen.ie/attachments/Census_2011_and_Lesbian_and_Gay_Couples_and_Famlies.PDF

There were 4,042 same-sex couples living together, 2,321 male couples and 1,721 female.

230 were couples with children, with the vast majority of these being female couples.

Most same-sex couples were cohabiting (3,876) but 166 indicated that they were married couples.

Since same-sex civil unions had only recently been introduced in Ireland at the time of the census, it is likely that most of these were married abroad.

baby and crumble

foggy_lad wrote: »

Fair comment but it begs the question why are there so few same sex people in committed relationships? If theoretically up to 10% of the population are gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered why are so few prepared to commit to a relationship?

I can only answer from my perspective but myself and my gf are together 8 years, and and are engaged, but we don't live together because her family (one member in particular) don't approve and so we can't. I'm also a student and she's only just starting a job so we don't have enough money to move in together. It's not really fair to say that just because you're not living together you're not in a serious, committed relationship.

wonderfulname

It's about 2 or three percent of cohabiting couples, probably a bit less than one when you include marriages, not that surprising when you consider the percentage of the country that should be gay and how many of those wouldn't be able or comfortable to live together.

You shouldn't compare figures like this to population when population includes children.

youngblood

Does anyone else find this totally bizarre?


No Question on Sexual Orientation.
The Census does not include a specific question on sexual orientation. The issues around including
such a question are complex and raise questions around possibilities of non-response etc. It has not
been successfully included in any Census in the world to date.

In the entire world, no country has ever asked that question!!

Does that not seem crazy to anyone else?
Or am I the crazy one?

foggy_lad

DubArk wrote: »

My experience is that I know far more men than women living together but then that’s only me, not a statistical fact. I think that many same sex couples don’t have to emulate the traditional heterosexual couples/relationship by moving in with one another and keeping some independence.



Of course I hadn’t taken that into account how the question was posed. Very fair comment.

I know lots of couples mostly male but most I could not describe as being in a normal or committed relationship because of their use of gaydar and grindr etc looking for others/third and even fourths to spice things up in their lives, if your partner can't do it for you maybe a rethink is required?

Even couples who have been on tv and radio talking about their upcoming wedding ceremony's are regulars on sites like gaydar seeking others for NSA. nothing normal about that imho.

stephen_n

foggy_lad wrote: »

I know lots of couples mostly male but most I could not describe as being in a normal or committed relationship because of their use of gaydar and grindr etc looking for others/third and even fourths to spice things up in their lives, if your partner can't do it for you maybe a rethink is required?

Even couples who have been on tv and radio talking about their upcoming wedding ceremony's are regulars on sites like gaydar seeking others for NSA. nothing normal about that imho.

And how many married hetero men are on sites like plenty of fish or Ashley Madison etc etc looking for something to spice their lives up! Question is, is monogamy really as normal as it is portrayed to be?

foggy_lad

stephen_n wrote: »

And how many married hetero men are on sites like plenty of fish or Ashley Madison etc etc looking for something to spice their lives up! Question is, is monogamy really as normal as it is portrayed to be?

whenever I was in relationships they were monogamous and I would expect any potential partner to be thinking along the same lines as myself, if a guy or girl wants to shag anything that moves they should do it on their own time and stay single!

Ambersky

I guess if you are single and LGBT you just dont count, arent counted.

stephen_n

foggy_lad wrote: »

whenever I was in relationships they were monogamous and I would expect any potential partner to be thinking along the same lines as myself, if a guy or girl wants to shag anything that moves they should do it on their own time and stay single!

And I would be the same as you, I don't and never have cheated but the vast majority of my straight friends have so I'm just questioning your concept of normal!

cgcsb

baby and crumble wrote: »

I can only answer from my perspective but myself and my gf are together 8 years, and and are engaged, but we don't live together because her family (one member in particular) don't approve and so we can't.

To be honest, that's just ridiculous, you're not living your life for a family member, you're living your life for YOU!

cgcsb

foggy_lad wrote: »

I know lots of couples mostly male but most I could not describe as being in a normal or committed relationship because of their use of gaydar and grindr etc looking for others/third and even fourths to spice things up in their lives, if your partner can't do it for you maybe a rethink is required?

Or maybe they're living their own life their own way, and you shouldn't judge them, just a thought.

It's a bit ridiculous for a gay person to start bashing another gay person with the "normal" stick.

DubArk

Well the Census is an official enumeration of the population, with certain details. I don’t think individual stories of what people do in those relationships will or should be reflected in the census. It’s a broad brush stroke trying to capture statistics. My own experience is just mine and others of course can only be theirs. The fact that Johnny (one part of a couple) is playing away or Mary trolls the internet looking for a bit on the side, cannot be measured and should not.

I do take into account couples who are in a relationship they both recognize as a union but don’t reside together, drop through the net. On that note all those heterosexual couples who don’t live together for whatever reason, financial etc fall through that net too.

It would be very interesting to see the question on sex orientation but I don’t think for one moment it could work. As we all know these details will eventually be released.
You can go onto http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/ and check out our forefathers and foremothers individual census. Therefore I’d imagine that someone who is in a heterosexual relationship wouldn’t be prepared to state that they identify a bisexual, as just one example.

lottpaul

As one half of one of the 4,042 couples that showed up on the census I don't find it at all surprising that the number seems so low. I know of several cohabiting couples - gay and lesbian - who didn't tick that box for a number of reasons: living in a small town/rural area is not as free and liberating as it might seem and your enumerator/collector may be a neighbour/married to a work colleague etc and if you have a "sensitive" job, such as teaching, Gardaí, etc etc then it's probably far more practical and "safer" just to "be good friends". I know there are all sorts of rules and regulations about privacy, secrecy etc but if in doubt and if it gives them a little extra peace of mind I have no difficulty with their choice. (I did it for years myself)
Yes, I know it gives a false result, and yes, I know it would possibly give some succour to others if they saw that the number of couples was larger, but to my mind 4,042 is excellent -- its the population of a medium sized town. And you can be sure that by 2016 the number will be even higher.

DubArk

lottpaul wrote: »

As one half of one of the 4,042 couples that showed up on the census I don't find it at all surprising that the number seems so low. I know of several cohabiting couples - gay and lesbian - who didn't tick that box for a number of reasons: living in a small town/rural area is not as free and liberating as it might seem and your enumerator/collector may be a neighbour/married to a work colleague etc and if you have a "sensitive" job, such as teaching, Gardaí, etc etc then it's probably far more practical and "safer" just to "be good friends". I know there are all sorts of rules and regulations about privacy, secrecy etc but if in doubt and if it gives them a little extra peace of mind I have no difficulty with their choice. (I did it for years myself)
Yes, I know it gives a false result, and yes, I know it would possibly give some succour to others if they saw that the number of couples was larger, but to my mind 4,042 is excellent -- its the population of a medium sized town. And you can be sure that by 2016 the number will be even higher.

So true, the collection of such information isn’t exactly secure from prying eyes. I too filled out the form on our status and we’re known by the entire small town as a gay couple (the only gays in the village), so I didn’t even take into account who’d have access to such sensitive information. It certainly wasn’t sealed?!

Yes and we did know the lady who collected our census form and she actually checked through it to see it was filled out correctly on receipt….

TylerIE

The Census only asked in vague terms "what is your relationship to the person 1" or something similar, and the Marital Status Question didnt allow for Civil Partnerships, so I imagine a few people got lost under how to define their relationship, particularly if they were in a Civil Partnership or married overseas.

My partner and I planned ahead to stay together that night even though we live separately in order to ensure we were represented in the census as a same sex couple.

However many people really dont seem that bothered - a lot of acquaintances and friends who are strongly anti Catholic, non practicing, and some who are total non believers, still marked their census as Roman Catholic instead of No Religion simply out of tradition. I imagine the same applied to many same sex couples.

I also imagine the rural taboo plays a part in it, we stayed in the city for the Census rather than in my rural homeplace where it would likely become local gossip.

TylerIE

foggy_lad wrote: »

Even couples who have been on tv and radio talking about their upcoming wedding ceremony's are regulars on sites like gaydar seeking others for NSA. nothing normal about that imho.

Edited to:

foggy_lad wrote: »

Even couples men who have been on tv and radio talking about their upcoming wedding ceremony's to their wives are regulars on sites like gaydar seeking others for NSA. nothing normal about that imho.

Or

foggy_lad wrote: »

Even couples prominent married men who have been on tv and radio talking about their upcoming wedding ceremony's are regulars on sites like gaydar Escort Ireland seeking others for NSA. nothing normal about that imho.

Or

foggy_lad wrote: »

Even couples who have been on tv and radio talking about their upcoming wedding ceremony's many everyday married men are regulars on sites like gaydar seeking others for NSAescort ireland seeking female company for a fee. nothing normal about that imho.

Its not just gay men.

baby and crumble

cgcsb wrote: »

To be honest, that's just ridiculous, you're not living your life for a family member, you're living your life for YOU!

Actually I'm living my life the best way I can, and right now if that means ensuring that my partners 90 year old grandmother doesn't disown her only grandchild whom she reared and doesn't die thinking that my partner is going to hell, well I'd rather do that than break up a family. Like isn't always black and white.

Annasopra

baby and crumble wrote: »

Actually I'm living my life the best way I can, and right now if that means ensuring that my partners 90 year old grandmother doesn't disown her only grandchild whom she reared and doesn't die thinking that my partner is going to hell, well I'd rather do that than break up a family. Like isn't always black and white.

Agreed - if things work that way for you and your partner then great

I'm not comfortable with the judgement about how people should or must live their lives in this thread (saying this as a poster not a mod). Some of the judgement seems to be almost like a controlling moral watchdog.

stephen_n

baby and crumble wrote: »

Actually I'm living my life the best way I can, and right now if that means ensuring that my partners 90 year old grandmother doesn't disown her only grandchild whom she reared and doesn't die thinking that my partner is going to hell, well I'd rather do that than break up a family. Like isn't always black and white.

Fair play to you it must be incredibly hard but I like the fact that you are willing to put that much effort into maintaining your relationship. Life is about compromise sometimes not principles especially when it comes to relationships!


Mind you, you shouldn't have to justify yourself for your choice on an Internet forum either!

cgcsb

baby and crumble wrote: »

Actually I'm living my life the best way I can, and right now if that means ensuring that my partners 90 year old grandmother doesn't disown her only grandchild whom she reared and doesn't die thinking that my partner is going to hell, well I'd rather do that than break up a family. Like isn't always black and white.

For me it's extremely black and white, life is way too short to be loosing sleep over the possibility of 90 year old women being bitter, and placing that consideration above your own happiness doesn't do anyone any favours. I'm not 'judging' or 'controlling' you, as mango salsa said, I'm just offering my advice.

Annasopra

cgcsb wrote: »

For me it's extremely black and white, life is way too short to be loosing sleep over the possibility of 90 year old women being bitter, and placing that consideration above your own happiness doesn't do anyone any favours. I'm not 'judging' or 'controlling' you, as mango salsa said, I'm just offering my advice.

Fair enough - for you it's black and white but others on here recognise that compromise is sometimes the best thing. You also seem to be assuming that b and c is unhappy with the situation. Anyway b and c really really does not have to justify how she lives her life. I think it's best to let this part of the discussion go and move back on topic to the census.

stephen_n

cgcsb wrote: »

For me it's extremely black and white, life is way too short to be loosing sleep over the possibility of 90 year old women being bitter, and placing that consideration above your own happiness doesn't do anyone any favours. I'm not 'judging' or 'controlling' you, as mango salsa said, I'm just offering my advice.

*** didn't read the last part of mangos post before replying***

Chuchoter

cgcsb wrote: »

For me it's extremely black and white, life is way too short to be loosing sleep over the possibility of 90 year old women being bitter, and placing that consideration above your own happiness doesn't do anyone any favours. I'm not 'judging' or 'controlling' you, as mango salsa said, I'm just offering my advice.

Have to say wish I was more like you! I'm dreadful at doing things just because someone else tells me to, but conflict is difficult

I personally think that figure is too low, and the fact that its increase 100% in 6 years tells me that its a bit of a statistical red herring. There's a reason its impossible to get an accurate number on how many gay people there are, nobody answers honestly. Even 10% isn't an accurate figure and I have no idea why its used because the way they got to that number was ridiculous.

stephen_n

Chuchoter wrote: »

Have to say wish I was more like you! I'm dreadful at doing things just because someone else tells me to, but conflict is difficult

I personally think that figure is too low, and the fact that its increase 100% in 6 years tells me that its a bit of a statistical red herring. There's a reason its impossible to get an accurate number on how many gay people there are, nobody answers honestly. Even 10% isn't an accurate figure and I have no idea why its used because the way they got to that number was ridiculous.

Kinsey's study is the closest we have come to proper research into sexuality why do you think it's ridiculous?

Chuchoter

Because its usually used as 10% of the population are gay, its actually 10% have had some same sex experience, so your straight girls kissing in clubs are in that 10%. Prisoners were over represented and he chose subjects from groups he already knew were gay. Since it was a taboo subject and the people volunteered themselves, you also have self selection bias. Its ridiculous there's been little further research in the area, what has been done gives statistics closer to 4-6% and who knows what they're like either. I'm not saying 10% is incorrect, but there's no proof it is correct either. Even Kinsey didn't like that figure being used.

stephen_n

Chuchoter wrote: »

Because its usually used as 10% of the population are gay, its actually 10% have had some same sex experience, so your straight girls kissing in clubs are in that 10%. Prisoners were over represented and he chose subjects from groups he already knew were gay. Since it was a taboo subject and the people volunteered themselves, you also have self selection bias. Its ridiculous there's been little further research in the area, what has been done gives statistics closer to 4-6% and who knows what they're like either. I'm not saying 10% is incorrect, but there's no proof it is correct either. Even Kinsey didn't like that figure being used.

The figure of 10% represents 6% exclusively homosexual males and 4% exclusively homosexual females not those who had some same sex experience though. He put that at 46% of men but as you say the survey was biased by his use of prison populations and self selection but how else other than self selection are you going to carry out the research when a huge amount of gay and bisexual people will not answer the question honestly as the census figures would seem to show! It may not be accurate but to call it ridiculous seems overly critical!

LegacyUser

I for one am sick of hearing the 10% vs 1% etc being debated by conservatives, liberals, gays and straights alike. The point isn't in proving we are a big enough minority to "deserve" equal rights or be considered statistically relevant enough to define ourselves as "normal". The fact that couples exist and demand equal rights and demonstrate they are capable of living their life in whatever way that is in order to attain self-fulfilment should be all the "proof" we need.

Also as for the "are you gay/bi?" Q - I can't imagine many younger people living at home would be comfortable ticking it in front of family. I had to reason with my mother to fill out "other" under the religion category and explain my reasons despite being 22 at the time and normally living away from home!

bananarama22

DubArk wrote: »

Our Population is 4.58 million and according to the 2011 census there were 4,042 same sex couples living together. This seems a tiny number.

Do you think people didn’t answer this honestly as it’s still taboo here in Ireland or is it a true reflection?

Source http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0329/divorce-rate-up-150-since-2002-census.html

That sounds like a liklyhood. Unfortunately, homosexuality seems to have a stigma attached to it, and it damn well shouldn't. I'm glad to see the tide slowly changing for the good and that civil unions are not recognised .. roll on same sex adoption / fostering. I ask the people against gay adoption, what is better for the child? Growing up with a single mother who never planned the child or the child living in an underpriveleged / drug infested house? Or under the care of loving gay/lesbian couple? Speaks for itself I think.