How do you measure your worth as a person?

santana75

I've been doing a lot of thinking abot this subject lately and I've found that theres a covert message thats conveyed via the media, even society at large, that your worth is dependant upon:

- Your job/career
- Your marital/relationship status
- Your posessions(cars, houses, money etc)
- Social circle(how many friends you have)
- Physical appearance
- The number of sexual partners/relationships you've had
- Your activities(holidays, the number of different countries you've visited, gigs you've been to etc)

The message is, your worth as a person is based upon external factors and if you dont satisfy these factors you're not as valuable as somebody who does. I mean nobody comes out and says this explicitly but people seem to live by this unspoken message. For example, single people are looked upon as less valuable than those who are married or in a relationship(pre-selection). Again this isnt said out loud but its definitely the message thats given out.
What do you think, how do you measure your worth as a person? Do you believe that your worth is dependant upon reaching certain criteria or do you think that worth is inherent no matter what you do(excluding criminality) or have?

Scanlas The 2nd

santana75 wrote: »

I've been doing a lot of thinking abot this subject lately and I've found that theres a covert message thats conveyed via the media, even society at large, that your worth is dependant upon:

- Your job/career
- Your marital/relationship status
- Your posessions(cars, houses, money etc)
- Social circle(how many friends you have)
- Physical appearance
- The number of sexual partners/relationships you've had
- Your activities(holidays, the number of different countries you've visited, gigs you've been to etc)

The message is, your worth as a person is based upon external factors and if you dont satisfy these factors you're not as valuable as somebody who does. I mean nobody comes out and says this explicitly but people seem to live by this unspoken message. For example, single people are looked upon as less valuable than those who are married or in a relationship(pre-selection). Again this isnt said out loud but its definitely the message thats given out.
What do you think, how do you measure your worth as a person? Do you believe that your worth is dependant upon reaching certain criteria or do you think that worth is inherent no matter what you do(excluding criminality) or have?

It's that mentality that has so many people depressed. You can add "achievements to your list. My attitude is I'm not even interested in "my worth", I seek to enjoy life as much as I can and that's it. Accepting yourself as intrinsically good enough regardless is the key to happiness IMO.

prinz

santana75 wrote: »

For example, single people are looked upon as less valuable than those who are married or in a relationship(pre-selection)...

I'd agree with everything in your post except for the above. I'd aruge it's the other way around, I'd say marriage and other committed long term relationships are the ones that are getting looked down on and that large sections of our society looks on a married person as being somehow 'less' than they were before they were married... it goes back to your other point about your number of sexual relationships/partners etc. If you are married etc you aren't in the market to boost that number (usually).

My worth as a person comes from the fact that I am a person. That I can think for myself. That I don't have to be driven by basic instincts 24/7. That I can use my brain instead of my penis. That I have the ability to find my own goals and achievements. That I am strong enough as a person not to buy into the crap soulless 'lifestyles' that are constantly being peddled to us. That I am capable against the majority. I generally find people who don't do the above are not living up to and realising their potential as people and human beings.

crackin_up

Yes the media does perpetrate the message but they have a goal in mind, to sell a product, promote an image. In society at large I don’t think the message is as covert. How we view and treat others has a bearing on how people feel about themselves. The only goal people have is to make themselves feel better by viewing others as somewhat less then they are. No matter how strong we are or think we are, everyone is effected by how others view us.

santana75

crackin_up wrote: »

Yes the media does perpetrate the message but they have a goal in mind, to sell a product, promote an image. In society at large I don’t think the message is as covert. How we view and treat others has a bearing on how people feel about themselves. The only goal people have is to make themselves feel better by viewing others as somewhat less then they are. No matter how strong we are or think we are, everyone is effected by how others view us.

I dont think this is a given. I think its very easy to fall into the trap of allowing yourself to be affected by what others think of you but I also think that you can refine and work on yourself to the point where you genuinely dont care how people view you. And I think you can do this without becoming ignorant or insensitive. Granted it takes a lot of work and isnt a clearly defined journey, but its not true to say that we have to care what others thnk of us.

crackin_up

santana75 wrote: »

I dont think this is a given. I think its very easy to fall into the trap of allowing yourself to be affected by what others think of you but I also think that you can refine and work on yourself to the point where you genuinely dont care how people view you. And I think you can do this without becoming ignorant or insensitive. Granted it takes a lot of work and isnt a clearly defined journey, but its not true to say that we have to care what others thnk of us.

No we don’t have to care about what others think of us, but unfortunately it does matter. This is not to say that it has to be wrong to feel that way. It is a fine line between knowing who you are and being comfortable with that as you said falling into the trap of being affected by what others think. In my opinion the few people I have met that seem totally comfortable with themselves have been self centred. This in itself is not a bad thing but when it is to the exclusion of other peoples feeling then I do think it is wrong. I have no doubt that it can be done, but I think the hard part is that to be a balanced rounded person you have to take the feelings of others into account. To grow as a person we have to learn about who we are and this can only be viewed through someone else’s eyes for the most part. The skill is to know where the line is between becoming who you are and becoming who others think you are.

Scanlas The 2nd

wrote:

t. To grow as a person we have to learn about who we are and this can only be viewed through someone else’s eyes for the most part. The skill is to know where the line is between becoming who you are and becoming who others think you are.

But what does becoming who you are mean, everyone already is " who they are"?

The assumption is you aren't good enough right now. Developing skills etc can be beneficial for you enjoyment of life, but allowing a self image to be derived from it can lead to unhappiness, conflict or depression. You lose the ability to be objective and at peace as you have a self image to protect so others opinions have the potential to annoy you.

vibe666

in inches. :pac:

Manach

To quote Whitman
“I exist as I am, that is enough,
If no other in the world be aware I sit content,
And if each and all be aware I sit content. "

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

santana75

crackin_up wrote: »

To grow as a person we have to learn about who we are and this can only be viewed through someone else’s eyes for the most part. The skill is to know where the line is between becoming who you are and becoming who others think you are.

I'd agree but disagree aswell. For most people this seems to be the way they see themselves, through the eyes of others. But again I dont beleive it has to be this way. The problem with seeing yourself through others is that other people have their own distorted view of reality, which they will project onto you. I think the answer is to develop your self awareness so that you can truly view yourself as you are and not through a distorted filter. Takes time, yes, and in order to develop self awareness you have to be brutally honest with yourself. But I think this is the more natural way of being.

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

But what does becoming who you are mean, everyone already is " who they are"?

The assumption is you aren't good enough right now. Developing skills etc can be beneficial for you enjoyment of life, but allowing a self image to be derived from it can lead to unhappiness, conflict or depression. You lose the ability to be objective and at peace as you have a self image to protect so others opinions have the potential to annoy you.

I think to live in the western world like we do, you have to be strong and really know yourself. Threres the collective consciousness which follow certain unwritten rules, like the ones I mentioned in the original post. Most people will follow these rules by default because they want to be part of the collective. Problems arise when you dont seem to measure up, you dont have a job for whatever reason or your own home, or you dont have as many friends as the next guy etc. Thats when people start to beat up on themselves and feel bad or inadequate. This kind of programming is insidious, its conveyed through advertising and the media in general to sell products and make money. The messages arent overt but they get in there and this is what has a lot of people in a state. Just look at the PI section on any given day and theres people in distress because they feel like they have no worth, they dont measure up. Thats why I think its important to be aware and choose how you measure your own value as a person, by your own standards and values not what by TV or magazines or billboards deem worthwhile.

moe_sizlak

crackin_up wrote: »

No we don’t have to care about what others think of us, but unfortunately it does matter. This is not to say that it has to be wrong to feel that way. It is a fine line between knowing who you are and being comfortable with that as you said falling into the trap of being affected by what others think. In my opinion the few people I have met that seem totally comfortable with themselves have been self centred. This in itself is not a bad thing but when it is to the exclusion of other peoples feeling then I do think it is wrong. I have no doubt that it can be done, but I think the hard part is that to be a balanced rounded person you have to take the feelings of others into account. To grow as a person we have to learn about who we are and this can only be viewed through someone else’s eyes for the most part. The skill is to know where the line is between becoming who you are and becoming who others think you are.

intersting post , how does one learn who they are through another persons eyes ?

P. Breathnach

Manach wrote: »

To quote Whitman
“I exist as I am, that is enough,
If no other in the world be aware I sit content,
And if each and all be aware I sit content. "

Yeah, kindah.

But why does he bother writing about it? Is he not content unless he tells us?

Loire

I think this is an interesting question and I feel that the answer largely depends on the age/level of maturity in a person. For example, a teenager would probably put popularity high on the list whereas someone quite old might put being loved by their grand children top of their list.
As someone in their mid-30s in a happy marriage with 2 young kids, I try and divide my time and effort between 3 things (mainly) - a sort of triangle where each corner should get equal attention:

1. Family/Friends
2. Work
3. Individual Needs/Wants

Some of these overlap. For example, my number 1 priority is my family, however, my career is important for this too as it should ensure that I can send my children to the best schools and decent holidays etc.

By looking at the 3 areas as equals, it helps me to not over-focus on any one area to the detriment of others. Of course there are exceptions, such as a very busy period in work where I may have to work late/weekends, but I'll uhsually make up for this by spending more time with the kids the following week or getting a round of golf in etc.

By the way...I've never been this structured in the past, but it was something I picked up recently when working for someone and I applied it to my life and it seems to work pretty well.

I therefore measure my worth as a person in how I rate on the 3 areas above.

Loire

Zulu

Great question OP!

I was going to write a long winded post, but it was making little sense. I genuinely think that the key to happiness is recognising that any expectation you feel, or any pressure you feel, or any worry you feel is self imposed.

Nobody should expect "it" of you, and if you surround yourself with good friends, and people who love you, no one will.
Nobody you love will put you under pressure knowingly. If you feel under pressure, take a step back and see what’s got them under the thumb - something has, badly.
Worry’s are problems that DO NOT exist.

So where does that fit with "worth"? Well if it's all self imposed it doesn't really matter at all. The "worth" has no value (which I guess is a contradiction).

hummm this isn't making much sense either - apologies.

I guess I value my friends; the people that I love. And I measure my worth as a person from my interactions with them. However, I recognise that this is a self-inflicted limit I place upon myself which will only serve to diminish my happiness so, ultimately, I do my level best to ignore it.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Zulu

Permabear wrote: »

I think we need to distinguish between internal sense of self-worth as opposed to how esteemed we are by others.

Aren't the two intrinsically linked though? If we perceive others value of us as negative, then over time, I'd suggest this acts as a corrosive agent, diminishing our own self-worth (or vice-versa).

When it comes to other people's perceptions, things mentioned by the OP, such as appearance, job, wealth, lifestyle, and so on, undeniably do matter.

I'd be of the strong opinion that they only matter if we let them matter!

Clearly Mrs. Buckét valued other peoples perceptions greatly. But this was a value she held & regarded. The stress, & unhappiness of "keeping up with the Joneses" is a self inflicted construct. If there is any "worth" to be gotten from it, it's a temporary "worth". The car is only valuable for so long, the big promotion is only valid for so long. Ultimately, the job can be lost & the car crashed; the value of the "worth", lost.

There's simply no escaping that fact.

...but there is! Don't value it. Sure recognise it for what it is, but if you don't "value" it, you escape from it.

I'm often amused by how differently people treat me when I'm wearing a suit and driving my Peugeot RCZ, versus when I'm wearing jeans and a sweatshirt and driving my friend's old Toyota Corolla.

This is very true, but I guess the mistake is to value the reaction to the suit as something that reflects you as a person. You are who you are.

However, it's also the case that many people who are rich, famous, and attractive, who seem to enjoy every advantage in the world, also have low self-worth. In a recent issue of Harper's Bazaar, Demi Moore told an interviewer that "What scares me is that I'm going to ultimately find out at the end of my life that I'm really not lovable, that I'm not worthy of being loved. That there's something fundamentally wrong with me ...

Do you reckon that could be because her entire life, (in her mind) her self-worth was her beauty? It got her her career (posing naked originally launched her acting career). It launched her to stardom (GI Jane/Striptease) It got her her husband (Bruce W.). It relaunched her career (posing naked pregnant). It got her her younger husband.
All her life, she’s linked the positive, her “worth” with her body & now it’s starting to fail her. She can’t compete with the younger models any more. Que suicide attempt & cry for help. Poor girl.

Those 9 to 5'ers you mentioned were afforded the chance not to misplace their value into wealth or looks, and placed it in friendships, honest labour, & loving families!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Zulu

Permabear wrote: »

I think there can be a strong correlation, but I don't think they're intrinsically linked. It's possible to have a low sense of self-worth while being highly esteemed by others, and vice versa.

humm, true.
But to simplify, say taking mental illness out of the equation, & all thing being equal, assuming the individual values external worth, wouldn't their own self-worth improve if surrounded by people who hold in the individual in high esteem over a period of time? I would imagine that it would.
Conversely, if you are surrounded by people who constantly put you down, I'd imagine your self-worth would rapidly diminish. (Unless you recognise this external influence)

While it's certainly possible to mock Hyacinth Bucket's upper-middle-class pretensions (as Keeping Up Appearances does relentlessly) her slovenly brother-in-law Onslow also makes us uncomfortable by simply being happy in his own skin and not caring what anyone thinks of him. While none of us wants to be Hyacinth Bucket, neither do we want to be overweight, unemployed Onslow, who is seemingly happy to live in a run-down council house with a rusted car in the front garden, spending his time drinking, eating junk food, and watching TV. Ultimately, the show seems to suggest that appearances do matter, and that there's a happy medium between Hyacinth and Onslow.

ah yes, Onslow. Excellent point! Well observed. ...but what’s wrong with Onslow? OK he's fat, lazy, & dirty. But he's a happy, happy man. And perhaps his happiness stems from the fact that he's careless.
Frankly I'd much rather be him than his sister-in-law! But ok I accept your point. And I'd suggest all that's missing from Onslow is honest labour. If he were a working man, all of a sudden, his stained vest isn't so bad. And he's entitled to a beer...

While that's true, it's also the case that practically anything one values can be taken away.

You're right, but I suppose there's a balance. You could take the position that if you value nothing other than yourself, you'll never be hurt by anyone else. However, it's unlikely you'd also experience the joy of a shared loving relationship. I'd suggest the balance lies not in "loving that you have a partner" but "loving your partner". The love of your partner can't be taken away, although your partner can. So the "worth" isn't that you have a wife; that you got married, but rather, the "worth" is the relationship you share. (I accept that that relationship is a fragile thing, and the other person could just as readily ride your brother for the craic - but assuming you actually are in a relationship for the right reasons, this shouldn’t happen). I accept your point though.

The depressing reality of life is that everything (up to and including our own lives and legacies) will eventually end or fade away.

Of course you are right, and the misery of mourning for a lost one we all experience.

Nevertheless, many people do say that they feel differently when they're dressed up and driving a nice car; they feel more successful, confident, and assertive.

Ok, but I would argue that these people are the same people would attach "worth" to these things.
Hyacinth Bucket is top of her game being chauffeured around in their rover, with a nice hat on.
If I think that "suits" run the country, then I feel powerful in my Armani suit. Confident. I too am a suit.
But this is a self-impeding construct society falls foul of. Pick a man from the jungle, and he won't gain the confidence of a "suit". It means nothing to him. ...he'll be more confident in the jungle.

This casts some degree of doubt on whether "you are who you are" independently of how others see you, or whether it's the case that "you are who others perceive you to be in the moment."

Ok. True. Until one recognises this. Then it can be (somewhat) disregarded.

I think our identities do tend to shift depending on context, as opposed to being fixed and immovable.

True. No matter how confident I am of this, if I was removed from my social circle, dropped in a Gulag in Siberia, surrounded by people who hate me - I'd give myself a few days before it all came crumbling down!

True — and many do. But then again, we have other 9-to-5'ers (a great many in Ireland at the moment) who are saddled with hundreds of thousands of euros in debt because they pursued lifestyles (dream home, flashy car, multiple foreign holidays, etc) that were way beyond their means. In the early to mid 2000's, Ireland went through a period where a bricklayer could live like a Lotto winner, and many did.

…misplaced “worth”?

crackin_up

moe_sizlak wrote: »

intersting post , how does one learn who they are through another persons eyes ?

If we stand in front of a mirror we only see one side of ourselves and not the whole person. In order to learn and grow I think we should see ourselves from all different angles and points of view. This is done by interacting with others and learning from mistakes made. Maybe it’s done unconsciously when we are young, but I do realise there is a danger in becoming only a person that others see and not your true self. This is what I meant about a fine line between them.

santana75

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Unfortunatley this is the way things in western culture have developed. People will, like you said, respond differently to you when you're driving a flash car and dressed in a suit. But the thing is you can choose to take part in that or not, its a choice. You dont have to buy into that way of thinking. Granted thats what a lot of people do buy into, but its a roller coaster existence. If you have the car, the clothes, the lifestyle, you think you're successful in life and you have value. But these things can easily be lost and when if they are, then your sense of worth is destroyed or severly threatened. I know for a fact that therapists offices are full of people who have all the things that we're told will bring us value and happiness but who are in distress and very unhappy with themselves.
I think its crucial to get your sense of worth from yourself and not rely on the opinions of others to have as your foundation. This doesnt mean becoming insensitive, cold, or turning into a socio-path. It just means getting to know yourself and having your own set of values to live by regardless of who thinks you should live a certain way or have certain things.

Scanlas The 2nd

I value money, cars, nice houses, clothes etc. but it doesn't affect my self worth in that I don't rate myself compared to others. I'm good enough no matter what. If I don't have a job im good enough, or If I can't attract a woman in good enough if I can't add 2+2 I'm good enough. this is the body I was born into out of pure luck and whatever it is capable of is purely down to chance anyway so why worry about it.