Sex with others isn't necessarily cheating?

KealanOCarroll

Posted this here and in the main forum, not sure where is best ?

Sex with others isn't necessarily cheating.
Heard this argument recently from my girlfriend, thought id see what everyone else thinks!
First off, it's not while she's with me, it was with her ex (Thank god )

To cut a long complicated story short, she was on and off with a man she didn't love. They were living together, and in a relationship, but she tells me (and I believe her) they were rarely having sex, sleeping in separate rooms regularly, etc...so the relationship wasn't working out.

She openly admits she went out on more than one occasion and had sex with a stranger, or with someone she had no emotional connection to, it was purely a physical desire for sex. She also encouraged him to do the same, claiming that if there is no emotional connection and it is really just for physical sex, then it's not cheating.

She says, and again I do believe her, that she does not do this since we have started going out, she does truly love me, and would never have sex with anyone else...while we're together, obviously :L

What are your opinions on this ?
Im sure im not alone in disagreeing and saying sex is cheating, full stop, but id like to hear the other side of the story.
Anyone agree with her? Be it when the alleged offender is in a steady relationship or in a failing one?

The thing that I think would tempt her to re-lapse into this as it were, is I'm in college in a different city to her, and am not home every weekend. I have at least 2 years left down here, and although we are going to stay in a relationship (which started while we were longish distance) I suppose there's a little bit of me that worried about her wanting sex that I cant give her because we don't get the opportunity regularly.

Wompa1

But anyway from having a similar situation with a now ex. She didn't tell me right away but she had cheated on a guy but things were going south blah blah blah. It freaked me out but I loved her, I felt really insecure about things after that as well as with some other things she had said about other stuff. Think about it this way. If that's how she feels, what will she do to you when the going gets tough. I'd let her go break somebody elses heart and save yourself while you can.

I don't understand though, if she doesn't think it's cheating, why wouldn't she do it on you? It's not wrong after all?!

Doesn't add up IMO.

Balmed Out

Doesnt matter how strong the relationship is. If you are not having an open relationship then having sex with someone else is definately cheating.
Why is she telling you this anyway?

johnr1

It's almost impossible to make a judgement on whether she was cheating in her previous relationship or whether it was an open relationship.
The things you wrote indicate that she but not he, went outside of it for sex. If they had a stated or implicit monogamous rel, and she went offside, 'encouraging' him to do the same isn't enough to make it not cheating. He would have had to have given approval - either by agreeing, or by not ending it, or by doing the same.
Tbh, she seems to have a loose definition of under what circumstances its ok to go outside a rel for sex - ie; 'if there is no sex in the rel' or 'if the rel is failing'.Neither of these are in my opinion grounds for going outside the relationship, and yes, in both these instances I would regard it as cheating.

You appear to have different opinions to her, and in the circumstances you describe, yes, I think she might get her jollies elsewhere, and then try to justify it by by her own logic.
What happens if you should at some point suffer, (as many men do at some stage) from ED? She'd have plenty grounds there by her logic. What happens if ye were to have to live apart for some reason later on in your relationship - for work or such? Would that then be ok in her book?

Fine if you have no problem with an open rel, but your post indicates otherwise.
Sadly, it appears you are incompatible in your most basic needs. Rip off the plaster now, rather than later when there's more hurt involved.

curlzy

And she told you this, why exactly??? :eek: OP, without knowing you or her, this is just a very weird thing to be saying you your long distance relationship boyfriend. Honestly I think she's laying the groundwork to cheat on you and then, if she gets caught, she can say "but we weren't having sex often enough, he didn't mean anything to me, it wasn't cheating, I told you before that this was how I felt".

Sex, for me anyways, is something to be shared between 2 people that care for each other. Why have sex with someone you feel nothing for? I'd much rather sort myself out than have a stranger, that I feel nothing for, inside me! I personally couldn't be with someone that views sex as a bodily function. How do you feel about it though?

If you're not mad about her I'd drop her. If you are mad about her and want it to work then I'd have a very serious conversation and ask her why she said all that and that you consider sex outside a relationship to be cheating. I mean come on, is she really trying to change the definition of the word cheating? In the context of relationships, cheating is, by definition, having sex with someone who is not your partner.

Major Major red flag OP.

bouncebouncey

I've no idea if it was cheating when she was with her ex. The ins and outs of their relationship would be pretty hard to pin down. Knowing the specifics and what he was truly comfortable with would be near impossible to find out.

What I can tell you, with certainty, is that if you're not in an open relationship with this girl and she has sex with someone else it's cheating. It doesn't matter if she says its okay for you to do it too. If you haven't agreed to an open sexual relationship it's cheating. It is simple as that. That's all you need to worry about IMO, not the past relationship or her ex.

I'd really worry as to why she was telling you this stuff. I'm all for being open and honest but it seems a weird thing to bring up unprompted.

Sleepy

Do you think perhaps she's trying to test the waters about having an open relationship OP?

blatantrereg

It doesn't sound like she had an arrangement with her ex that they were both happy with. She sounds pretty callous.

I wonder if the ex knew that she was cheating on him. From your account, she implies this, but doesn't actually say that she told him at all. I wonder if she told him she didn't love him before she did - or even if she continued to say that she did love him while she ****ed about.

You must be a bit agitated by this when you are in a long-distance situation.

bouncebouncey

Also, it just dawned on me, she could be making excuses for herself after the fact. It's all a bit too suspect behaviour IMO

Sonics2k

Unless you're in an open relationship, it's cheating.

All that sounds a bit suspicious to me OP. Almost like she's preparing you or trying to justify something.

P. Breathnach

KealanOCarroll wrote: »

...claiming that if there is no emotional connection and it is really just for physical sex, then it's not cheating....

I don't buy that.

LoganIn

Op,
I actually wrote a few paragrahps but decided to delete it... Because simply if I were you I would dump her.

This is a massive red flag. She'd cheat on you. 99.9% chances are she already has. How can you trust someone you states "sex isnt cheating" Dump her man. You'd be mad to continue.

TheIronyMaiden

LoganIn wrote: »

Op,
I actually wrote a few paragrahps but decided to delete it... Because simply if I were you I would dump her.

This is a massive red flag. She'd cheat on you. 99.9% chances are she already has. How can you trust someone you states "sex isnt cheating" Dump her man. You'd be mad to continue.

No, hang on. Has your girlfriend ever given you any reason to dump her? Apart from this issue, has there been any other cause for concern that she might be cheating on you?

I don't think this is an issue for you to worry about OP. Yes you are in a LDR but, and this is the key here, she was with a man she didn't love. Perhaps she thought removing sex from the equation (because sex, especially lack of, always complicates things) would help them to focus on the emotional side of things that needed fixing.

Like it or not, some people can completely separate sex from emotions. Maybe this is what she did with her ex who, from the sounds of things, she was all but broken up with anyway. Don't let her past effect your future.

johnr1

TheIronyMaiden wrote: »

No, hang on. Has your girlfriend ever given you any reason to dump her? Apart from this issue, has there been any other cause for concern that she might be cheating on you?

I don't think this is an issue for you to worry about OP. Yes you are in a LDR but, and this is the key here, she was with a man she didn't love. Perhaps she thought removing sex from the equation (because sex, especially lack of, always complicates things) would help them to focus on the emotional side of things that needed fixing.

Like it or not, some people can completely separate sex from emotions. Maybe this is what she did with her ex who, from the sounds of things, she was all but broken up with anyway. Don't let her past effect your future.

More justification for what she did, Bull.

KealanOCarroll

Wow, wasn't expecting this amount of replies...dont wanna go quoting em all so ill just give a general response :P

They were in an OR, she told him straight up wat she was doing, afaik, she told him beforehand. He definitely knew anyway, and she openly encouraged him to do the same.

As with any relationship, there are loads of little (and big) details that all make a difference, I know most of them but can't go explaining every last detail on here

She didn't love him, don't know what the story was with her saying she loved/didn't love him.

Lots of people asking why would she say that to me....I raised the issue and I kinda dragged it out of her to be honest!
We were having a conversation about us / relationships / etc, I ended up asking about her past (I'm pretty jealous of her Ex's i guess :S ), after a lot of prying on my part I got her to elaborate, she didnt really wanna describe sex with other people because she knows I dont like picturing it, but I don't think she was testing the waters or starting to build a defense for herself, I kept leading the conversation that way.

I am crazy about her, I love her, and she loves me. She has explained that she didn't love the Ex in question, told him she would have sex with others, told him to do the same, she does love me, doesn't have any desire for sex with anyone else, and would never cheat on me.

When I first found out, I was worried that she would do the same, but I have discussed it with her at this stage, I am satisfied she will not & doesnt want to do the same with me.

Suppose at this stage im not really asking if ye think she'll do it again, just wondering what other peoples opinions on the whole situation are...

blatantrereg

You're jealous of people no longer on the scene and pry for details about them. She likes to have sex with strangers while in a relationship. Your ideas on that core issue are at opposite extremes. It will probably lead to conflict.

The "not loving him but does love you" thing isn't that relevant I dont think. She was living with him so it was clearly a serious relationship. Easy to say "I didn't love him but I do love you" to make herself sound better. She'll say the same to the next guy if she does the same to you.

Herrick

Hold on, if she was in a relationship with a man she didn't love or have sex with, why the hell didn't she leave him?

OP, I think she's blowing ****.

Ickle Magoo

KealanOCarroll wrote: »

They were in an OR, she told him straight up wat she was doing, afaik, she told him beforehand. He definitely knew anyway, and she openly encouraged him to do the same.

By OR I presume you mean an open relationship?

So they were in an open relationship and he both knew and was okay with her going with other people - and visa versa. What part of that do you think is cheating OP?

I think it's clear you have, or at least have had, very different ideas of relationship boundaries. You admit to being jealous of her ex and trying to paint the details you pushed to get of an honest open relationship as cheating sounds more to do with your insecurities than her going behind partners backs and cheating in the conventional sense. That said, I think you have a choice to make which hinges on your own self-esteem...if she says she now wants a conventional relationship can you really and honestly believe her and trust that's what she really wants and relegate her past to where it belongs? If you can't then it's game over.

All the best.

KealanOCarroll

blatantrereg wrote: »

her initials arent cn by any chance..?

Nope.


@Herrick
Have a few reasons from her so far but tbh, not ceratin, but she's writing out the whole story as we speak so im sure ill know more soon

KealanOCarroll

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

By OR I presume you mean an open relationship?

So they were in an open relationship and he both knew and was okay with her going with other people - and visa versa. What part of that do you think is cheating OP?

I think it's clear you have, or at least have had, very different ideas of relationship boundaries. You admit to being jealous of her ex and trying to paint the details you pushed to get of an honest open relationship as cheating sounds more to do with your insecurities than her going behind partners backs and cheating in the conventional sense. That said, I think you have a choice to make which hinges on your own self-esteem...if she says she now wants a conventional relationship can you really and honestly believe her and trust that's what she really wants and relegate her past to where it belongs? If you can't then it's game over.

All the best.

Thought about the cheating thing after reading the comments and realised cheating is the wrong word all together :oops:

I believe they were indeed in an OR, she does say she now wants a conventional relationship, and I do believe that is what she wants.
Shes an amazing woman, ticks all my boxes and then some, i'm crazy about her, but as you suggested I do have a low self-esteem, and there's a little conflicting voice in my head as it were that plants a seed of doubt that I'm not good enough for her so she might be tempted to suggest an OR, in order to be satisfied with someone "better".

I manage to really annoy myself with these thoughts because I do feel she's being 100% honest when she says an OR is not what shes after, she wants to be exclusive with me, and it's like the low self-esteem streak in me is conflicting with the part of me that knows she is being honest.

I've actually justified my emotions by "the voices in my head"....aw wow...

Ickle Magoo

I think you have to keep reminding that little voice that relationship dynamics are individual to each relationship...you'll know that from any relationship you've ever been in previously. They all have different boundaries, expectations, protocols and cues and "rules", I suppose in a way...there's no reason why you can't have a discussion about what your relationship is and what is and isn't okay to do & set your own boundaries & expectations for this relationship.

I'd also suggest you work on your own self-esteem because dragging information out of people just to throw back at them or use as a stick to beat them with is not going to be doing your own image any good - it's worth remembering that insecurity can be as destructive to a relationship as infidelity.

KealanOCarroll

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I think you have to keep reminding that little voice that relationship dynamics are individual to each relationship...you'll know that from any relationship you've ever been in previously. They all have different boundaries, expectations, protocols and cues and "rules", I suppose in a way...there's no reason why you can't have a discussion about what your relationship is and what is and isn't okay to do & set your own boundaries & expectations for this relationship.

I'd also suggest you work on your own self-esteem because dragging information out of people just to throw back at them or use as a stick to beat them with is not going to be doing your own image any good - it's worth remembering that insecurity can be as destructive to a relationship as infidelity.

Brilliant comment....thank you
Regards the throwing back bit, I did dig out information, but I haven't used it to throw back at her, haven't used it as a weapon against her because she trusted me, opened up and told me (She's not normally a DMC type), and I wouldnt want to discourage her from sharing with me in case she's afraid ill use it against her.
I've been working on the self-esteem lately...started gymming big time lately, studying more, etc...hopeful about those working

Susie_Q

I second what Ickle has said above. Don't focus on your girlfriend's past or who she was with before she met you; it's honestly none of your business and the information won't do you any good. Focus on your current relationship and you will be much happier. Best of luck.

daisybelle2008

KealanOCarroll wrote: »

@Herrick
Have a few reasons from her so far but tbh, not ceratin, but she's writing out the whole story as we speak so im sure ill know more soon

Ok, are you saying here you are getting her to write out the full details of a past relationship for you?
If so both of you have some serious issues. You for asking and her for agreeing to such unhealthy nonsense.

Herrick

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

Ok, are you saying here you are getting her to write out the full details of a past relationship for you?
If so both of you have some serious issues. You for asking and her for agreeing to such unhealthy nonsense.

When I read it last night I thought he meant that his gf was gonna post in this thread with her side of the story, but haven't seen anything.

G-Money

From what I've read, it sounds like she's paving the way to cheat on you or something and then "justify" it to herself because she "told you about it" beforehand. Which is obviously ridiculous.

Anyway, hopefully it won't come to that but I guess it would ring a few alarm bells for me.

Monkey61

OP this is definitely a case of your insecurities getting the better of you.

She was in an open relationship with a boyfriend and that was how it worked. Sometimes that works for people, sometimes it doesn't. Everyone has a past and who are you to judge? I can see nothing wrong with that kind of arrangement as long as both parties know what they are involved in. From what you've said, it was all completely honest, she didn't lie, cheat etc, it was just a different relationship with different boundaries.

All relationships have different boundaries and I think it is unfair to judge someone on past relationships. All you can do is tell your girlfriend what you want/expect from this relationship and then she can either agree to it or not. There is no reason why just because she has been in one open relationship, she would want to ever be in one again.

I am currently in a relationship with the girl I want to marry. She has very, very different boundaries to anyone I have ever been with before and I have no problem respecting them - because I love her, and that is the most important thing to me.

In my previous relationships it was okay to point out good looking people on tv, or joke about coworkers we thought were attractive, or go to strip clubs and such, because I never had a problem with stuff like that and neither did any of my girlfriends. However, my current girlfriend would dump me in a second, despite how in love we are, if I did any of those things - because for her, they are just completely unacceptable within a relationship. And that is absolutely fine with me and I respect that as her views on the subject are much stronger than mine, I'm fine with that. Also, because I am so in love with her and think she is so perfect and amazing, I wouldn't even find anyone else remotely attractive anyway because I am with her!

So give her a break, it may have been stupid of her to bring it up, but sometimes people can be stupidly honest in relationships without really thinking of the consequences. Perhaps because she feels so strongly about you she wanted to share her past with you - misguided as that may have been!

And look, if she does suggest an open relationship (which by the way I see no reason based on what you have said that she would), then it won't be the end of the world - it will just mean that she is not as into you as you would like her to be and that it is not meant to be. Awful obviously, but sometimes these things happen and at least you would know.

I am a friend

KealanOCarroll wrote: »

Thought about the cheating thing after reading the comments and realised cheating is the wrong word all together :oops:

sounds to me that you are back tracking cos you dont like the responses.

KealanOCarroll

I am a friend wrote: »

sounds to me that you are back tracking cos you dont like the responses.

Nope !
Most of the posts are saying its her paving the way for cheating in the future, or to break up with her now, neither of which I can picture happening, they just don't feel right.

Suppose I used the word cheating because I'm accustomed to conventional relationships, as are my friends, so in conversation, If either party are with anyone outside of the relationship it's referred to as cheating...that's what we'd call it, so i'm used to the word without considering the OR situation.

Monkey61, I'd be inclined to agree with you, the insecurity/jealousy issue is something we've talked about since and I've en devoured to work on.
Just to point out tho, she didn't bring it up, I was probing into her past, she was just answering the (many ) questions !

fits

stop badgering her about her past.

P. Breathnach

Hi K.

It looks as if you have made your decision, and I hope everything goes well for you. At least it is now unlikely that anything from her past will come up and bite you.

I think you know that I was not very keen on what her past implied about the possibilities for the future. But there is one thing that intrigues me. When you did your digging, she was prepared to answer your questions and discuss things with you. It looks to me as if she saw a possibility of your relationship being in danger, and took the huge risk of discussing these uncomfortable truths as her way of trying to create an honest foundation for your relationship. Let's hope that this is the right interpretation.

Little Miss Lady

It's not healthy to be probing pasts..
Just make it clear that for you and your relationship that having sex with other people is definitely cheating and go from there.
Otherwise I can see this eating you up
best of luck