Some sellers ... necks of solid brass

Owen

Went to see this car tonight, about an hour's drive from Cork.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/3138626. Owner's in London, so I eMailed him before I went asking him to be honest with faults, as I'd prefer to know about them before I visited. Told me the engine light was on, and the Airbag light was on, but the car was in 'immaculate condition' otherwise.

Here's the eMail I wrote to him this evening. I'd say it's about 3k to actually repair the car to where it's useable. That's 1k more than what he's asking. Tried staying calm and polite, but I'm pretty annoyed at having driven that distance to have been met with this.

I said I'd get back to you out of courtesy. Thanks for letting me view your car this evening, and pass my thanks on to your Parents too, especially your Dad for running off to get Jumpleads.

Long story short, there's just too many expensive faults with the car for me to consider it. A quick run down, with parts prices from memory :

Passenger Seat Occupancy Mat - € 310
New Battery - € 150 (There's a very small undercapacity one fitted with a block of wood holding it in place, wreaks havoc with the electronics if it's not the right one with the chip built in).
Spoilers loose on one side and chipped - € 120 for fitting and repainting
Rear Bumper is scuffed on both sides lightly - € 150 for repainting (Which is a cheap estimate)
Both door check straps to hold them open are damaged and the doors keep trying to swing closed - €120 x 2 - € 240
Drivers door window regulator worn and window rattling - € 160
The Drivers door itself has suffered collision damage, where the check strap protrudes from is broken and the metal is twisted like it's been butchered with a can opener. Only cure is a replacement door - €200 even for a secondand one, plus swapping over all the hardware and electronics inside.
The interior is mildewed and will need a complete professional valet and seat removal to get the mildue out of the carpet too, somewhere around €180 for that
The engine is covered in oil leaking from the cylinder head, so gaskets will need replacing - gasket is only about 20 Euro, but labour is substantial in terms of time.
The handbrake doesn't function at all, the handle and ratchet mechanism inside needs replacing - approx 100 Euro for that minimum.
The engine light isn't an engine light, it's the cooling system having a failure, most likely either one of the hoses ruptured, or the rad. Could be 20 Euro, could be 300 Euro.
Lastly, and most worryingly, the car will not communicate with my diagnostic equipment. I brought 2 rigs along with me to determine any faults, and neither could get a link to the car's ECU. A new ECU wouldn't be worth considering, price would be close to a grand + recoding to the car's chassis and body control module.

I'm not posting this here to ruin the guys chances of sale deliberately, but anyone viewing this car needs to be aware of the issues. I haven't included the remainder of the mail where I explained the actual worth of the car, or how I couldn't even drive it due to the handbrake not working, and there being no petrol in the car, and the car boxed in by other cars. There could well be braking/suspension issues too.

Anyone else had some doozies like this when going out to view 'perfect' or 'immaculate' cars?

Matt Simis

Owen wrote: »

Anyone else had some doozies like this when going out to view 'perfect' or 'immaculate' cars?

The Audi S8 I bought last year was in bits, always remember the advert stating it was "mint". Visually and technically it was a wreck.
I made him an offer of half of his asking (which itself slid from double that when he originally put it up). It required thousands of repairs.

They told me basically "no way, get lost this discussion is over" after I made my offer (and showed them the diagnostic print out). However they texted me later accepting the offer... :pac:

Stainless_Steel

Was it an E60?

Owen

No, the link's valid on the ad above - it's an e46 Coupé.

johnos1984

You should have known it was fecked when the seller said

Car in immaculate condition.

Stainless_Steel

Owen wrote: »

No, the link's valid on the ad above - it's an e46 Coupé.

Doh!

carbon nanotube

looking at these i think* i did quite well with that gen 7 accord.


*touch wood...



and more wood....

Owen

Also forgot to mention that it was 9k overdue a service.

colm_mcm

carbon nanotube wrote: »

looking at these i think* i did quite well with that gen 7 accord.


*touch wood...



and more wood....

It's not real wood though

Top Dog

Owen wrote: »

Anyone else had some doozies like this when going out to view 'perfect' or 'immaculate' cars?

Came across a couple of peaches back in September 2010 when looking for our current motor.

First one was a '04 Pajero - looked nice and clean in the photos, advert claimed the usual immaculate condition, and it had 9 months DOE test left on it (suggesting it'd only been 3 months since its last one) so I figured it was well worth a look. Problem was that it was in Dublin.

Decided to go have a look but it was pretty dark by the time we arrived to view. Externally it looked ok - certainly not immaculate with scuffs on all 4 corners, blown bulb in sidelight, but nothing major. Took it for a spin and there was a strange noise from the rear. As it was the first Pajero I'd ever driven I figured it was down to the noise from the tyres or something.

Decided I was interested anyway and agreed a price with the seller subject to its passing an AA inspection. Left him a deposit of €200 just to show I was serious and I went off home to arrange the inspection the folowing day. :cool:

4 days later AA inspection was carried out - I missed the phone call but got a text from the inspector "Alarming noise from transmission tunnel and rear differential - strongly advise against purchase" Rang up the seller to tell him the deal was off to be met with a heap of abuse and claims that the Pajero was perfect and the inspector was talking out of his rear and he could have sold it 4 times in the time he was waiting for my inspection to be carried out. :rolleyes: Needless to say I never got my deposit back and was left €600 out of pocket in the end - could have been worse though, could have spent €6500 on a ball of scrap! :eek:

JerCotter7

In fairness it does look well in the pictures. You looking for a 318CI? Go for 02+ it's 16v compared to the 8v in that ad.

ottostreet

Holy Jaysus, ya spent 600 euro checking out a car?

Top Dog

ottostreet wrote: »

Holy Jaysus, ya spent 600 euro checking out a car?

€100 on fuel (Cork-Dublin return)
€200 deposit (that I never saw again)
€300 full AA Inspection

Voodoomelon

Its all about owners perception of "immaculate".

If it drives "grand", just had a wash and less than 50% of the lights on the dash turn off then its in top nick in their eyes.

Top Dog

Voodoomelon wrote: »

If it drives "grand", just had a wash and less than 50% of the lights on the dash turn off then its in top nick in their eyes.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so true

kerten

Similar story here.

Saw a cheap e39 520 auto on gumtree close to where I live. It was no nct/no tax type of car with clean looking pictures. I wasn't expecting faultless car of course. I rang the guy and asked him if there is anything wrong with the car and he said no.

When I arrived in place in dark, he told me that he bought it for his wife but she can't drive it due to size. I asked him again if there is any problem with the car before checking car, he said no.

I hopped into driver seat and saw dead pixels in dash first. Acceptable for a cheap car:) Then started to drive it and 3rd gear started to slip and Drive icon on dash is flashing due to slip. I told him that gearbox is slipping and he said "yeah it may be". He was a real timewaster. At least I didn't drive far for it.

I still can't figure out what he was thinking. Buying without driving maybe.

Owen

JerCotter7 wrote: »

In fairness it does look well in the pictures. You looking for a 318CI? Go for 02+ it's 16v compared to the 8v in that ad.

I know, did work for BMW for 7 years Budget won't stretch to a 02 one unfortunately. Maybe the next time.

dr.fuzzenstein

Top Dog wrote: »

Needless to say I never got my deposit back and was left €600 out of pocket in the end - could have been worse though, could have spent €6500 on a ball of scrap! :eek:

Holy Jesus, I would have hounded that bastard high and low for my money I would have made him pay or gotten my pound of flesh from his ass.

In fairness he gave the chap a deposit after the test drive, after that he decided not to buy, the nature of a deposit would allow for it not to be refunded.

Tea 1000

Top Dog wrote: »

€100 on fuel (Cork-Dublin return)
€200 deposit (that I never saw again)
€300 full AA Inspection

€100 on fuel on Cork to Dublin return? What the hell are you driving?

dr.fuzzenstein

RoverJames wrote: »

In fairness he gave the chap a deposit after the test drive, after that he decided not to buy, the nature of a deposit would allow for it not to be refunded.

Fair point and a valid one.
But for 600 smackers one could say to hell with fairness, let's get a horses head and find out where this guy sleeps. When it comes to money fair and right sometimes get left behind.;)

Anan1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Fair point and a valid one.
But for 600 smackers one could say to hell with fairness, let's get a horses head and find out where this guy sleeps. When it comes to money fair and right sometimes get left behind.;)

There aren't enough horses heads in the country to deal with every misdescribed car like that. In any case the car wasn't even misdescribed - immaculate means sh1tbox.

Ardennes1944

Tea 1000 wrote: »

€100 on fuel on Cork to Dublin return? What the hell are you driving?

my car is only a 1.8 na and i burned 80e doing it!

Padraig Mor

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

my car is only a 1.8 na and i burned 80e doing it!

LOL that's more than my 3.0 auto!

Big Nasty

Padraig Mor wrote: »

LOL that's more than my 3.0 auto!

Likewise, about 40L / €65 in a 3.5 V8!

Ardennes1944

id believe it! but its worth it for the power low down. i dont travel to dublin often

Top Dog

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Holy Jesus, I would have hounded that bastard high and low for my money I would have made him pay or gotten my pound of flesh from his ass.

After his attitude on the phone following the inspection I just couldnt have been bothered trying. Yeah, I was out of pocket, but could have been out a whole lot more so chalked it down to experience.

Tea 1000 wrote: »

€100 on fuel on Cork to Dublin return? What the hell are you driving?

At the time - a 1.9dCI Laguna estate ... through 4 tolls ... and a little on the spirited side

Nowadays €100 is close to the norm, but at least I've a decent sized engine now

oh and I count the tolls as part of the fuel a lot of the time - makes calculating journey cost easier. So €80 diesel + €20 tolls = €100 journey

dr.fuzzenstein

Anan1 wrote: »

There aren't enough horses heads in the country to deal with every misdescribed car like that. In any case the car wasn't even misdescribed - immaculate means sh1tbox.

Hahaha, I see what you mean.
Kind of like "Drives like a Dream", like the one where I'm in a burning wreck going over a cliff?:D

JJJJNR

buyers are just as bad, one lad I had looking at my car was looking for money off because of a stone chip, the car I was selling was actually imacc.. and sold to the next person.

padd b1975

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Fair point and a valid one.
But for 600 smackers one could say to hell with fairness, let's get a horses head and find out where this guy sleeps. When it comes to money fair and right sometimes get left behind.;)

The deposit was only 200 and protects the seller as much as the buyer.

fullstop

Top Dog wrote: »

At the time - a 1.9dCI Laguna estate ... through 4 tolls ... and a little on the spirited side

Nowadays €100 is close to the norm, but at least I've a decent sized engine now

oh and I count the tolls as part of the fuel a lot of the time - makes calculating journey cost easier. So €80 diesel + €20 tolls = €100 journey

€5 per toll? You must drive a different Dublin - Cork road to me so!

MugMugs

Jaysus Owen, were you quoting this lad?

Any response out of interest?

Padraig Mor

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Likewise, about 40L / €65 in a 3.5 V8!

Anti LOL - that's less than my 3.0 V6!

dr.fuzzenstein

padd b1975 wrote: »

The deposit was only 200 and protects the seller as much as the buyer.

Ah yes indeed and it was.
Still, for €200 I'd lean on the other guy, don't care what he says, was there anything signed? Has he witnesses?
If he says it's the deposit I'd say he got it out of me under false pretenses, I wouldn't just let him have the money, in these times people will use any excuse when it comes to money, you have to lean on them, let them feel your breath on their neck and don't be afraid to hulk over them with just a hint of bullying them.
Other than that people will butter you up and gut you like a kipper, nice guys pay and finish last.
It's business, you're not out there to make friends.

Ardennes1944

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

my car is only a 1.8 na and i burned 80e doing it!

30mpg on a run from a 1.8 :eek:
Must be very short gearing in her, or you had your foot welded to the floor

Theboinkmaster

OP to be honest I have limited sympathy for you.

Anyone selling a car who puts up such a lazy ad and a one line description such as that just would not even warrant a phonecall from me.

They can't make the effort to put up a proper description and you're surprised when their opinion of immaculate differs from your own?

Chalk it up to experience. In future I wouldn't be travelling very far with ads like that.

padd b1975

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Ah yes indeed and it was.
Still, for €200 I'd lean on the other guy, don't care what he says, was there anything signed? Has he witnesses?
If he says it's the deposit I'd say he got it out of me under false pretenses, I wouldn't just let him have the money, in these times people will use any excuse when it comes to money, you have to lean on them, let them feel your breath on their neck and don't be afraid to hulk over them with just a hint of bullying them.
Other than that people will butter you up and gut you like a kipper, nice guys pay and finish last.
It's business, you're not out there to make friends.

It sure is business, works both ways.



Stay classy.

Ardennes1944

RoverJames wrote: »

30mpg on a run from a 1.8 :eek:
Must be very short gearing in her, or you had your foot welded to the floor

that included driving around dublin for an hour too so i suppose it would have been 70 for the actual trip itself. i was going a good bit above the limit on the way up to get to the meet in midway and on the way down i was at 120
midget gearing ftw around town....but not on the motorway!

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

............ let them feel your breath on their neck and don't be afraid to hulk over them with just a hint of bullying them................

Carry on like that and someone will call your bluff sooner or later

A chap refusing to hand back the deposit would already have that possibility weighed up anyway so it would be a calculated enough decision, most of us have a fair idea where we stand in primitive pecking order terms so if you have to resort to a hint of bullying to assert your point it's more than likely the other chap has you down as a non threat (rightly or wrongly)

If there was nothing signed and no witnesses sure he could say the €200 never changed hands

Wolverine_1999

Lads, the topic is about the condition of the car not the cost or amount of consumption of petrol!

I had a similar experience at the weekend:

- 320 CI with 130,000 Miles although looked clocked judging by the condition of the interior
- Door surround for both doors fell off so he tried to glue it back on with what can only be described as white gunk
- Seats were very dirty
- Car was dirty, even though he said he just washed it
- Air Intake corner pipe was sellotaped up to fix holes
- Oil all over the engine cover, last oil change was 16 months before. Crazy for a 6 cylinder BMW
- MASSIVE amount of rust under the boot lid, which looked like it had been painted over with a paintbrush and black paint
- Passenger Door was definitely resprayed at some point, as finishing was different on the back inside compared to the driver door
- Front Tow plastic cover on front bumper was missing, so car probably broke down not too long ago. Tony's car repair sticker on the windscreen :rolleyes:
- Alloys had more kerbing than alloy left on them

This all being the owner's "pride and joy". What are these people thinking?

Owen

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

OP to be honest I have limited sympathy for you.

Aren't you great. I did make contact with the seller, and asked him to let me know every fault the car had, as I'd find them anyway and he'd have a better chance of a sale.

I've done this with every car I've bought, the last 3 cars I had were absolutely stunning despite their ads having limited and clichéd descriptions. My 75 for example had the words 'TV, good condition' on the ad and a single 1 inch thumbnail photo, and it turned out to be the most well equipped 75 on the road in superb condition - so well equipped and so nice, I got offers to buy it monthly. Should I have walked away from the opportunity of buying that because the owner wasn't familiar with their computers or how to sell a car properly by your logic?

Fiona

RoverJames wrote: »

30mpg on a run from a 1.8 :eek:
Must be very short gearing in her, or you had your foot welded to the floor

30mpg thats nothing

Thats shocking that a car can be in such bad condition and having it for sale. Probably best it didn't have petrol it sounds like a potential death trap!

delly

Just goes to show how looks can be deceiving, as the pics look good.

When I sold my '02 Punto I was fairly straight with its condition and what problems it had had over time. When the one and only guy came to take a look one night he had a mechanic with him, so when he said could he go to the garage to take a look, I thought he meant the local petrol station. So we end up rolling into his actual back street garage in the dark and I started to think, eh, wtf. Anyhows, he put it up on the ramp, did a complete check on everything and pointed a couple of minor things out, but was happy enough to recommend it and we did a deal. A straight sale for both parties.

I have the same model coupe in '01 form and took a bit of a punt with it. My brother got it as a trade in and had driven it about for a month or two and ruled it to be in good condition, so took a chance for 1800, effectively the trade price. Sold the punto for 1200 so for only 600 went up to a whole different class. Some minor things taken care of, but for the year it is, its in great condition.

Jimmy Bottlehead

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Ah yes indeed and it was.
Still, for €200 I'd lean on the other guy, don't care what he says, was there anything signed? Has he witnesses?
If he says it's the deposit I'd say he got it out of me under false pretenses, I wouldn't just let him have the money, in these times people will use any excuse when it comes to money, you have to lean on them, let them feel your breath on their neck and don't be afraid to hulk over them with just a hint of bullying them.
Other than that people will butter you up and gut you like a kipper, nice guys pay and finish last.
It's business, you're not out there to make friends.

Like has been said, try that with the wrong person and you're putting yourself in a dangerous situation.

The point of the deposit is to temporarily halt the sale of the item, and shows the seller you're serious. If you back out, you accept that it's a loss. The seller might be kind and gracious enough to give it back, but it's beyond their call of duty.

Business is business, business isn't being a bullying dick.

mondeo

Reminds me of a dealer out in Lucan with a piece of **** 3 series I checked last year. P!ssing oil from everywhere, crank seals, sump gasket, diff was leaking and making a grumbling noise. Car described as immaculate in his ad yet Was nothing more then an expensive pig!

conzy

"Does 38MPG around town"

Seen that on a good few 325 ads... Its lucky to get 34MPG or so on the motorway downhill with the with the wind behind you and probably closer to 22MPG around town.. A 320d probably doesn't do 38MPG around town..

Matt Simis

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Like has been said, try that with the wrong person and you're putting yourself in a dangerous situation.

The point of the deposit is to temporarily halt the sale of the item, and shows the seller you're serious. If you back out, you accept that it's a loss. The seller might be kind and gracious enough to give it back, but it's beyond their call of duty.

Business is business, business isn't being a bullying dick.

Yeah I cannot understand his point. Ive taken deposits on deals that fell through a couple of times, but I dont offer them back and if asked, Id likely refuse as I would have turned away other sellers, put my plans on hold, got paperwork ready only to be told on day of collection (usually by text) they wont be buying the car as [tax too high, wife said no, brother in law said gearboxes give trouble].

The poster handed over EUR200, which is around the norm and his choice(though why he bothered is a mystery). He didnt buy the car, he doesnt get it back, its that simple. There is no-one to cry "false pretenses" to.

dr.fuzzenstein

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Like has been said, try that with the wrong person and you're putting yourself in a dangerous situation.

The point of the deposit is to temporarily halt the sale of the item, and shows the seller you're serious. If you back out, you accept that it's a loss. The seller might be kind and gracious enough to give it back, but it's beyond their call of duty.

Business is business, business isn't being a bullying dick.

Well, I always say if you don't ask, you don't get.
And €200 is worth asking for. If the guy says no at least I can say I tried.
Having said that I have never paid a deposit and then not taken the car, of course that is an awkward situation and one I have thankfully managed to avoid.

Anan1

When paying a deposit you make sure that both sides are 100% clear on the deal, including under what (if any) conditions the deposit is refundable. That way, short of outright theft, there won't be any problems.

Top Dog

fullstop wrote: »

€5 per toll? You must drive a different Dublin - Cork road to me so!

Commercial so Portlaoise is €3.30 each way and M50 is €4.80 or something. If you want to be pedantic its €16.20

Top Dog

Matt Simis wrote: »

The poster handed over EUR200, which is around the norm and his choice(though why he bothered is a mystery). He didnt buy the car, he doesnt get it back, its that simple. There is no-one to cry "false pretenses" to.

Ignorance really. Was the first Pajero I'd ever driven so I'd no idea what noises were normal and which ones to be alarmed by. If it had checked out ok it would have been a good price. Live and learn.