Planning Permission for a Houseboat?

InTheTrees

I'm perfectly serious.

We have property in Connemara. Beautiful, quiet, wooded, unspoiled and far from the roads.

We long ago gave up any hope of having a cabin or even a mobile home on the land as a holiday house.

However there are two lakes on the land. One of about three acres the other about two.

Is there a possibility that a boat (that could be slept in) would require planning permission?

Mellor

Interesting question.

My first thought was that the house boat itself may be outside the scope of the planning system. However, a residential mooring would be required, and I imagine would require planning. Being a lake, the actually use of the mooring is rather obvious and it comes down to the LAs opinion of suitability.

rayjdav

If I may ask a rather stupid question?:o

How/where would the effluent be treated from the house boat?
If it is obviously on-shore and local to the boat, i.e. some form of treatment system??, then once again you will need planning.

Not a water or boaty person so I have no idea and also, I told you it was a stupid question....:D:D

InTheTrees

rayjdav wrote: »

If I may ask a rather stupid question?:o

How/where would the effluent be treated from the house boat?
If it is obviously on-shore and local to the boat, i.e. some form of treatment system??, then once again you will need planning.

Not a water or boaty person so I have no idea and also, I told you it was a stupid question....:D:D

An excellent question.

To avoid septic tank issues we were thinking a Composting Loo. They're bulky though so it would only work on a custom built platform rather than retro fitted into a boat that we trailer in.

InTheTrees

Mellor wrote: »

My first thought was that the house boat itself may be outside the scope of the planning system.

Thats encouraging. Usually the answer is "you cant do that"!

Its a serious idea but we are still very very far from actually putting anything together. And this is very much an occasional use holiday structure.

Initially after being thwarted in any kind of cabin we considered a "camping platform"; basically a raised deck, with storage, seating, an outhouse for the compost Loo, and space to put up a tent. It would just be a safe, flat, clean place to have a tent.

And then I thought well why not make it a floating platform?

Aka Ishur

Better off asking in the boating forum but i think its a foreshore license you would need, which if i recall some topics correctly are pretty difficult to get.

InTheTrees

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Better off asking in the boating forum but i think its a foreshore license you would need, which if i recall some topics correctly are pretty difficult to get.

Good idea. I'll do that.

DOCARCH

If you own the lake, you would also own the foreshore, so I don't see any issue there. A foreshore license is usually applicable where land abuts the sea (as the State owns the foreshore).

If the houseboat was to be a permemant 'fixture' on the lake then I'm sure the Council would have a problem - imo, you would need planning permission for that. In the UK, I think you require planning permission for a 'residential mooring' for a housebot on private land.

If it was only to be moored on the lake infrequently, i.e. when you would be on holidays, it would be hard to know under what legislation they might stop you?

BryanF

what about in the depths of winter will you be needing and on-land retreat...

Cedrus

I lived on a boat for years and I strongly recommend it:D

DOCARCH

Cedrus wrote: »

AFAIK a boat does not need planning permission as it is mobile....

So's a caravan.....but there would be lots of planning precedents of how and where you can live in these!

There's an idea though, on a 3 acre lake, you could attach a small motor to the houseboat, tie the housebot to a pole in the centre of the lake with a long rope and have it do very slow circles 24/7.

Cedrus

DOCARCH wrote: »

So's a caravan.....but there would be lots of planning precedents of how and where you can live in these!
.........................................................

.

Mellor

Cedrus wrote: »

Not if you're mobile and don't try to live on a 3 acre plot.

A caravan require planning regardless of plot size.

Cedrus

DOCARCH wrote: »

So's a caravan.....

Mellor wrote: »

A caravan require planning regardless of plot size.

.

Mellor

Cedrus wrote: »

My point is that residential use of a boat does not require planning permission in itself, subject to the proviso that it will move along a canal, river or seaway. This type of movement will not be possible on a 3 acre lake with no waterway connected to it and the boat would probably not be considered to be mobile.
Mooring a boat anywhere will have its own restrictions - ownership of of the bank/berth, planning for same, byelaws, canals acts, shipping rules etc.

We are not talking about a canal river or seaway. So please stop refering to these. It doesn't help the OP.

A caravan also does not need planning permission to be a touring caravan but the places where you can park are similarly restricted by site ownership, planning permission for same, byelaws, road traffic acts, etc. A touring caravan does not need planning permission to be stored in a suburban driveway, but as soon as someone tries to live in it, it does. Likewise, if you try to store a caravan on a remote site where touring is not possible, say a 3 acre island with no bridge, then the authorities will no longer see it as a touring caravan.

Storage of a caravan is irrelevant. To live in a caravan requires planning. That's all that was stated. don't continue to argue this point, tis not relevant to the OP.

muffler

InTheTrees wrote: »

Is there a possibility that a boat (that could be slept in) would require planning permission?

I cant find anything in the Planning Acts to cover this scenario so I would suggest you apply to your local PA for a Section 5 Declaration.

InTheTrees

I started a thread in the Boating forum asking about regulations/licences etc.

I'm sure there's a whole book of different regulations that could result in denial.

InTheTrees

Apparently Waterways Ireland do not have a houseboat policy as evidenced by the fact that they are actively developing live aboard moorings to lease out but require nothing more than the normal licence.

http://irishwaterwayshistory.com/rants/living-on-the-canals/wis-non-houseboat-policy-january-2012/

Browsing through Adverts.ie I found a 28 foot Hunter Sailing boat for about Six thousand euro. Used. but with a good sized berth, kitchen, loo etc. It would be more fun than a caravan certainly.

bjg

Note that Waterways Ireland controls only seven navigations: the Lower Bann, the Shannon, the Erne, the Barrow, the Royal Canal, the Grand Canal and the Shannon–Erne Waterway. Its policies are irrelevant to any other body of water, for which you should check with the local authority — and the local anglers.

bjg

coillsaille

InTheTrees wrote: »

Browsing through Adverts.ie I found a 28 foot Hunter Sailing boat..

I'm sure you've thought of it, but make sure the lake is deep enough for the boat's draught. Some Connemara lakes can be quite shallow, even a good bit out from the shore.

InTheTrees

bjg wrote: »

Note that Waterways Ireland controls only seven navigations: the Lower Bann, the Shannon, the Erne, the Barrow, the Royal Canal, the Grand Canal and the Shannon–Erne Waterway. Its policies are irrelevant to any other body of water, for which you should check with the local authority — and the local anglers.

bjg

You're absolutely right and I'll try and check on that.

Thanks.

InTheTrees

coillsaille wrote: »

I'm sure you've thought of it, but make sure the lake is deep enough for the boat's draught. Some Connemara lakes can be quite shallow, even a good bit out from the shore.

Yes, Its deep but also uneven so its something to watch for.

Markcheese

If it's mobile and your not living in it permanently then I wouldn't worry. Enquire about planning for a dock/ jetty and your composting loo.... Can u get access to the lake for a large house boat... If u have to build a track/ road it could be unfeasable...
Good luck.....

InTheTrees

Markcheese wrote: »

If it's mobile and your not living in it permanently then I wouldn't worry. Enquire about planning for a dock/ jetty and your composting loo.... Can u get access to the lake for a large house boat... If u have to build a track/ road it could be unfeasable...
Good luck.....

Access is severely limited due to one slightly tight 90 degree turn in the road between two stone walls about a mile for the land!

We've had some lorries in there but its hard.

So the floating platform would have to be constructed on site. I'll need to do some research as regards sizes and buoyancy and weights etc. I also believe there are some safety regs that apply to small "boats" but not larger ones so I may need to make it over 30 x 30.

I'm still a little unclear about Galway boating regs. Apparently this would be outside the jurisdiction of Waterways Ireland.

Again, this is still at the fantasy/dreaming stage, but I really appreciate everyones responses.

Cedrus

I lived on a boat for several years and while I cannot advise on planning matters without being shouted down I do have practical experience.
A cruising boat is not necessary for your space requisites, and while there may be opportunistic deals available they may not suit your transport, draught and launching needs. A cruiser is further constrained space-wise by it's need to be hydrodynamic. a holiday home is not similarly restricted

I would recommend purpose built sponsons say 3-4, on which can be built a raft holding a cabin. The sponsons could be sinkable and removed for maintenance in turn each 3/4 year and the superstucture would not be affected.

You do need; Potable water, Electrical power(for pumps at least even if not for the whole gamut up to TV gaming stations ), Aqueous waste disposal (grey and foul), Solid waste disposal,
A good woodfired stove will clear your heating needs as long as you have the labour to cut and haul.

Poor Uncle Tom

Figuring the requirements for planning permission is easy enough really. If your proposal involves the development or construction of any elements not listed in the exemptions attached to SI No. 600 of 2001 you will need planning permission for it.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2

Now while you may not need planning permission to have a boat on your lake, connecting that boat to services in order to make it habitable may require planning permission, specifically, providing treatment facilities for sewerage and grey waters or providing mooring facilities and access decking.

There is also the issue of Zoning, if your lands are in a sensitive area, a SAC or SPA any alterations at all will need planning permission and/or discharge licence. The LA may also have something to say about changing the zoning of a piece of ground from Agricultural/Aquaculture uses to residential uses.

BryanF

Cedrus wrote: »

I would recommend purpose built sponsons say 3-4, on which can be built a raft holding a cabin. The sponsons could be sinkable and removed for maintenance in turn each 3/4 year and the superstucture would not be affected.

Cedrus, I like your thinking
http://inhabitat.com/31-architects-modern-houseboat-floats-peacefully-on-the-river-amstel-in-amsterdam/
could be an interesting project

muffler

BryanF wrote: »

Cedrus, I like your thinking
http://inhabitat.com/31-architects-modern-houseboat-floats-peacefully-on-the-river-amstel-in-amsterdam/
could be an interesting project

That floating piece of **** should require a discharge license :eek:

BryanF

muffler wrote: »

That floating piece of **** should require a discharge license :eek:

is this more you? Muffler:D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Floating_House_Iquitos_SG.jpg

muffler

That would be close but without the water. :pac: