Traveller specific accommodation

smash

Clare council set to stop building Traveller homes

CLARE COUNTY Council is set to stop building Traveller-specific accommodation in Clare.

This follows a report showing that 25 per cent of its 10 group-housing schemes for Travellers – which cost €20 million to build – is vacant.

The report by the council's Traveller accommodation consultative committee says that the results of the current Traveller accommodation programme "are disappointing".

It says that five of the homes have been lost through arson, while 27 per cent of current tenancies have lodged transfer requests for other housing.

Arising from the results, the Traveller accommodation consultative committee has agreed that further building will not go ahead. The committee's recommendations will now go before the full council.

The council states that three new group schemes were constructed as part of the 2009-2013 programme, two in Ennistymon, at Ballymacraven and at Glen North, and one in Ennis, at Knockanean.

The county council's group-housing construction programme, involving successive Traveller accommodation schemes, which include the current one, resulted in the provision of 63 units of permanent accommodation – 50 houses and 13 bays.

However, the Irish Traveller Movement has warned Clare County Council that if it stops the construction of specific housing for Travellers it would be "in breach of the Housing (Traveller Accommodation) Act 1998, specifically in relation to Travellers' human rights. It could lead to opening a legal challenge."

The chairman of the Traveller accommodation consultative committee, councillor Brian Meaney (Green), yesterday defended the committee's recommendation. "There is no interest in constructing the Traveller-specific accommodation units the plan envisages," Mr Meaney said.

"In the current economic climate, it would be madness to construct further expensive housing while currently there are 16 units – that is a quarter of the current Traveller accommodation – that are unoccupied."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0326/1224313894045.html

I heard this on Matt Cooper yesterday evening and a representative from Clare County Council said that on average a traveller specific accommodation unit will cost circa €500k. This price includes the purchase of the land, building materials and labour costs and then amenities etc to cater for their culture. An estate, once complete will cost aprox 7x more than a regular housing estate in maintenance and each unit is anywhere between 1100-1500 sq ft. And they don't have to pay the household tax either.

Personally I don't know why they should get special treatment, and considering the anti social behavior from the estates I don't know wht CCTV is not in operation. Family arguments are resulting in arsen attacks and nobody is willing to speak up. I know this thread wont end well, but sure lets try and discuss it anyway.

summerskin

and it disappears. magic, i brokes the internets..


EDIT: and now it's back.


I'm scared.

CardBordWindow

They should be able to get the tarmac done fairly cheap though boss.

Seachmall

Common sense rears it's coy head in a local council?!

This can't go on! Free accommodation for all!!

slavetothegrind

i tells ya that small percentage of bad apples we keep hearing about sure get around!

we cannot discuss this topic until people are ready to face the reality of how a significant proportion of this group of people behave.

We cannot do this here i fear as it's an annonymous forum and silly posts could get boards in a spot of bother.

pickarooney

Now how about a country for the gypsies?

hightower1

It seems fairly straight cut though....

The allotment of current houses are well being under utilized, stop building until they are at 100% capacity ...then build more if needed. If something is not being used or needed then why build it?


Ethnic minority my arse. You live in trailers, in trailer parks , drive utility vehicals, are mostly undereducated, and generally have poor hygene standards (multiple occupants to a caravan , its a given).... in the US your called redneck trailer trash but here your expecting to be pandered to as some ethnic way of life? Get real.

biko

Keep it nice and civil folks and this thread won't get locked (maybe).

krudler

Good, halting sites are an eyesore and rarely used for their intended purposes, there's a few in Limerick that look like a bomb went off in them, horses living in the houses and people living in the caravans, stop spending taxpayers money on people who the majority of the time dont pay tax or live within the law.

smash

hightower1 wrote: »

multiple occupants to a caravan

Part of what was "required" during these builds, is space for extended families. What a joke.

stovelid

I'm always seeing traveller chicks that I seriously want to ride.

It's the horn that dare not speak its name.

Hootanany

Gets Popcorn

MickySticks

smash wrote: »

I heard this on Matt Cooper yesterday evening and a representative from Clare County Council said that on average a traveller specific accommodation unit will cost circa €500k.

:eek: Let them go fup off!!

SEPT 23 1989

They have no respect for themselves or the property they are given free of charge by law abiding taxpayers

wvicky01

Members of the travelling community are uneducated, as previously posted,but this seems to be due to discrimination and the kids not feeling they fit in at school. Everybody complains about the cost but nobody mentions how life expectancy for travellers is much less than the settled community. Lack of education, lack of medical support and overall lack of resources leads to the early death from illnesses that would not kill settled people. There are a minority of travellers that cause trouble but there are also many settled people causing trouble! Would we get labelled as anti social scrounges because some settled people are NO! It is not air to label all travellers the same and in this day and age I am surprised that this still happens

SEPT 23 1989

wvicky01 wrote: »

Members of the travelling community are uneducated, as previously posted,but this seems to be due to discrimination and the kids not feeling they fit in at school. Everybody complains about the cost but nobody mentions how life expectancy for travellers is much less than the settled community. Lack of education, lack of medical support and overall lack of resources leads to the early death from illnesses that would not kill settled people. There are a minority of travellers that cause trouble but there are also many settled people causing trouble! Would we get labelled as anti social scrounges because some settled people are NO! It is not air to label all travellers the same and in this day and age I am surprised that this still happens

Free education,free medical cards and millions of taxpayers money thrown at the problem

krudler

wvicky01 wrote: »

Members of the travelling community are uneducated, as previously posted,but this seems to be due to discrimination and the kids not feeling they fit in at school. Everybody complains about the cost but nobody mentions how life expectancy for travellers is much less than the settled community. Lack of education, lack of medical support and overall lack of resources leads to the early death from illnesses that would not kill settled people. There are a minority of travellers that cause trouble but there are also many settled people causing trouble! Would we get labelled as anti social scrounges because some settled people are NO! It is not air to label all travellers the same and in this day and age I am surprised that this still happens

resources, education and medical support are all there if they started living within the law and paying tax like everyone else. It staggers me that travellers ask for so much yet give so little to the society they want money from.

smash

wvicky01 wrote: »

Members of the travelling community are uneducated, as previously posted,but this seems to be due to discrimination and the kids not feeling they fit in at school.

It's to do with their way of life. Half of them couldn't care less about giving their children an education and want them to grow up the traveller way!

wvicky01 wrote: »

Everybody complains about the cost but nobody mentions how life expectancy for travellers is much less than the settled community.

They mostly live in squaller and there's a lot of inter-family marriage. This effects health.

wvicky01 wrote: »

Lack of education, lack of medical support and overall lack of resources leads to the early death from illnesses that would not kill settled people.

There's a free health care system here.

wvicky01 wrote: »

There are a minority of travellers that cause trouble but there are also many settled people causing trouble!

minority... :rolleyes:

wvicky01 wrote: »

Would we get labelled as anti social scrounges because some settled people are NO! It is not air to label all travellers the same and in this day and age I am surprised that this still happens

When they start to act different, they will be treated differently.

Professey Chin

wvicky01 wrote: »

Members of the travelling community are uneducated, as previously posted,but this seems to be due to discrimination and the kids not feeling they fit in at school. Everybody complains about the cost but nobody mentions how life expectancy for travellers is much less than the settled community. Lack of education, lack of medical support and overall lack of resources leads to the early death from illnesses that would not kill settled people. There are a minority of travellers that cause trouble but there are also many settled people causing trouble! Would we get labelled as anti social scrounges because some settled people are NO! It is not air to label all travellers the same and in this day and age I am surprised that this still happens

A lot of this is down to their parents. Its drilled into them from an early age that theyre different and are discriminated against. Everything that goes against them is automatically discrimination and with them seeing this mentality from their families they dont have a chance. Theres been plenty of traveller families that have settled and adapted well with some even going on to college education. Thats not gonna happen in the cases when theyre pulled out of school to get married

wvicky01

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Free education,free medical cards and millions of taxpayers money thrown at the problem

Free medical cards are no good if you can not read or write to fill in the application form, free education is no good if you are the only traveller in the class and none of the other kids will play with you.

Kalel

They are well able to fill out other social welfare forms..Why not the Medical Card ? you are talking tripe.

wvicky01

Would ye all argue against the idea that all Irish are drunks? This to me is the same principal. The stereotypical image of an Irish man is an alcoholic who goes home and beats his wife. Do we label all Irish men the same or say, yes there are a few, as in all other cultures but we are not all the same.

SEPT 23 1989

wvicky01 wrote: »

Free medical cards are no good if you can not read or write to fill in the application form, free education is no good if you are the only traveller in the class and none of the other kids will play with you.

They can fill in forms easily enough when they are looking for money from the State

DarkJager

wvicky01 wrote: »

Would ye all argue against the idea that all Irish are drunks? This to me is the same principal. The stereotypical image of an Irish man is an alcoholic who goes home and beats his wife. Do we label all Irish men the same or say, yes there are a few, as in all other cultures but we are not all the same.

Ask 10 people about their opinions of the Irish and maybe 2 would have that view. Ask the same 10 people about their opinion on travellers and it will be closer to 8. Stop pretending they are victims. In all my interactions with travellers over the years, I don't have a single good thing to say about them. Why do you think that is?

mikemac1

Let them join the housing list like everyone else

They don't need special accommodation with bays for caravans

Nobody else on the list gets special favours.
You take what you're given and if you reject it twice you go back to the end of the list

That story was in Clare, same happened in North Tipp
Nice Roscrea estate of thirteen houses built with bays for caravans and their requests meet and within a year there was arson and the places were vacant.
Roscrea has a lot of local authority housing, other applicants would have been delighted for those houses

lividduck

krudler wrote: »

resources, education and medical support are all there if they started living within the law and paying tax like everyone else. It staggers me that travellers ask for so much yet give so little to the society they want money from.

"if they started living within the law and paying tax like everyone else" you mean like Bertie, P Flynn, Lowery, or the tens of thousands of self respecting citizens who were caught with non resident bank accounts?
The 3 cnuts who beat a Polish man to death wern't Travellers, nor was Larry Murphy, nor was Marcolm McArthur, most crime in this country is caused not by Travellers but by the so called settled community, but its easy to be a smug racist when you can attack Travellers and blame them for all of lifes ills (Mind you if this thread was about Nigerians it would have been locked by now).

mikemac1

lividduck wrote: »

its easy to be a smug racist

Impossible
They are no different to the rest of us

The UK gave them special status but they do not have that here

token101

I'm afraid to comment for fear of waking the thought police, ending up in jail and being fired from my job.

Professey Chin

lividduck wrote: »

"if they started living within the law and paying tax like everyone else" you mean like Bertie, P Flynn, Lowery, or the tens of thousands of self respecting citizens who were caught with non resident bank accounts?
The 3 cnuts who beat a Polish man to death wern't Travellers, nor was Larry Murphy, nor was Marcolm McArthur, most crime in this country is caused not by Travellers but by the so called settled community, but its easy to be a smug racist when you can attack Travellers and blame them for all of lifes ills (Mind you if this thread was about Nigerians it would have been locked by now).

Ah the classic ignoring of proportions.
Take population then take crime.
Take settled population - Crime percentage
Take traveller population - Crime percentage

Which do you think will come out higher?

lividduck

mikemac1 wrote: »

Impossible
They are no different to the rest of us

The UK gave them special status but they do not have that here

They do under Equality Legislation

lividduck

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Ah the classic ignoring of proportions.
Take population then take crime.
Take settled population - Crime percentage
Take traveller population - Crime percentage

Which do you think will come out higher?

Settled, every time.

krudler

lividduck wrote: »

"if they started living within the law and paying tax like everyone else" you mean like Bertie, P Flynn, Lowery, or the tens of thousands of self respecting citizens who were caught with non resident bank accounts?
The 3 cnuts who beat a Polish man to death wern't Travellers, nor was Larry Murphy, nor was Marcolm McArthur, most crime in this country is caused not by Travellers but by the so called settled community, but its easy to be a smug racist when you can attack Travellers and blame them for all of lifes ills (Mind you if this thread was about Nigerians it would have been locked by now).

Travellers aren't a race, they're white Irish people for the most part, same as me. There's a difference between attacking travellers and just pointing out facts.

Professey Chin

lividduck wrote: »

Settled, every time.

You think theres a smaller percentage of about 22,000 travellers committing crimes then there is of 4.5 million people here? Really?

stupidusername

This topic is a complete waste of time. So many people that don't know any travellers will comment on how they're all thieving scumbags. I, for one, will admit that I don't know any travellers. I think that something like housing should be considered on a family by family basis - same as local authorities housing. Travellers want to be treated with the same respect as the settled, then they should be, as long as they live within the law and fit the criteria the same. simple as that.

If they expect to live here, and expect to be given houses free from the government, they need to pay taxes, the same as anybody else. Stop the discrimination this way, and stop the special treatment too.

Logical Fallacy

smash wrote: »

It's to do with their way of life. Half of them couldn't care less about giving their children an education and want them to grow up the traveller way!

I went to school with two Travellers, sound lads, were two of my best mates until i was about 16 and they both moved away.

Their parents had decided they wanted the kids to get a proper education so they settled in a dedicated site near my home town and sent the kids to the local school.

Oddly enough this did not settle well with their extended family and they were basically ostricised from the Traveling community at the time, which i thought was ****ing nuts. It caused a huge amount of heartache for the parents but they refused to back down from their position that the kids needed a proper education.

Kalel

Why do they need specialized housing units, whats wrong with joining the housing queue like everyone else. Why should they get special treatment. They want equality, lets prove they have it. Treat them no different than anyone else in society. Let social services treat them like everyone else and take their kids away if the caravan isn't seen fit or safe for the proper upbringing of the children. Means test them for social welfare (Having a 30 grand caravan and 40 grand car on the dole is a bit strange really isn't it).. I'm all for the fair and equal treatment of the peace loving, friendly travelling community but remember it has to cut both ways.

smash

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Oddly enough this did not settle well with their extended family and they were basically ostricised from the Traveling community at the time, which i thought was ****ing nuts. It caused a huge amount of heartache for the parents but they refused to back down from their position that the kids needed a proper education.

More of them need to do this!

Logical Fallacy

smash wrote: »

More of them need to do this!

Absolutely, I always thought their parents were very brave to go against "the family" like they did as they wanted something better for their kids.

keithclancy

Lets be realistic, their way of life is not having a fixed address.

If its you or me then without an address we get jack (just look at the homeless living around Ireland)

They want the benefits of having a fixed address without the comeback of having a fixed address.

To make things more complicated then the 'Settled' travellers expect to maintain these extra privileges when they do have an address.

Not cool at all.

If these gafs are empty then why not let the homeless live in them.

smash

keithclancy wrote: »

If its you or me then without an address we get jack (just look at the homeless living around Ireland)

They want the benefits of having a fixed address without the comeback of having a fixed address.

I saw a traveller getting a ticket for parking on a double yellow line, with not one disc in his window. The Guard was arguing with him about it but the traveller didn't seem to care. I later said it to my friend who's a Guard herself and asked where would they even send the ticket, the guy probably doesn't even have a pps number to which she replied "nonsense, he probably has 2 or 3 of them".

WIZE

wvicky01 wrote: »

Would ye all argue against the idea that all Irish are drunks? This to me is the same principal. The stereotypical image of an Irish man is an alcoholic who goes home and beats his wife. Do we label all Irish men the same or say, yes there are a few, as in all other cultures but we are not all the same.

This is simply Boll1x

And Ive lived in other Countries

You are thinking of Ireland in the 70s and 80s then I believe other Countries thought this but not in the past 20 or so years

Dan133269

wvicky01 wrote: »

Members of the travelling community are uneducated, as previously posted,but this seems to be due to discrimination and the kids not feeling they fit in at school. Everybody complains about the cost but nobody mentions how life expectancy for travellers is much less than the settled community. Lack of education, lack of medical support and overall lack of resources leads to the early death from illnesses that would not kill settled people. There are a minority of travellers that cause trouble but there are also many settled people causing trouble! Would we get labelled as anti social scrounges because some settled people are NO! It is not air to label all travellers the same and in this day and age I am surprised that this still happens

Let me take a wild guess, you grew up in an area where there were no travellers, or you very rarely came in contact with them, and still don't?

suicide_circus

lividduck wrote: »

Settled, every time.

Lol, talking out your arse there boss.

hightower1

Bottom line - the majroty of people dislike travellers. They embody the attitude of give me everything but I dot want to give anything back in return. Thats not gonna win you any public sympathy.

Tear halting sites down, no special treatment. They want free accomidation they can go about it like everyone else. Wanting "special accomidation" is like a begger in a soup kitchen looking for a special flavour of the free soup.

We give free housng in this country, asking for that to have special amendments for you specifically is the height of ignorance.

smash

Dan133269 wrote: »

Let me take a wild guess, you grew up in an area where there were no travellers, or you very rarely came in contact with them, and still don't?

I got the impression he is a traveller trying to defend his people's lifestyle choices.

FoxT

Soo,
The article posted is not very informative, but we can glean the following from it, at least:

Clare County Council spent eu20 million on traveller housing/accomodation.

25 percent are vacant - so eu 5 million wasted? Are they occupied even seasonally?

Also 1/3 of current tenants want to move. Even though the article doesn't say why, the fact that these people want to move implies that about another 4 million or so could have been badly spent.

Whatever the council policy is, it isnt working, so they should stop & figure out what the right policy is.


5 units destroyed thru arson - travellers would not be my #1 suspect here.


-FoxT

smash

FoxT wrote: »

25 percent are vacant

Also 1/3 of current tenants want to move.

5 units destroyed thru arson

All connected. Feuds resulted in arson attacks. 1/3 want to move because of this and nobody wants the vacant units because of it either. And nobody will spill the beans about who's behind it. Well that's what was said on the radio yesterday.

Dan133269

smash wrote: »

I got the impression he is a traveller trying to defend his people's lifestyle choices.

A traveller on boards, jaysus that would be a new one.

Just to share, I went to school with travellers, played football, kick-boxing with travellers, served them regularly in work so I do have a lot of contact with them.

I'll just share 1 story. I was in hospital a few years ago and the fella beside me was in his 70's, on his death bed more or less. It was really sad to see and hear the poor fella wheezing and struggling to breathe all day, he was a nice person.

There was a traveller in the ward with us, a member of his family came to visit him, in his 30s or thereabouts I was told. The guy in the beside me overheard him saying he was going to the shop and politely asked him to get him something. No problem said the traveller, and when the old man took out his wallet to give him money, the traveller grabbed it and ran off. The old man on his deathbed had his pension money that he had collected a day before in there.

The same hospital stay, group of travellers came to visit a relative and when they noticed the nice furniture in the hospital, they decided they'd have it for themselves. In front of all the doctors and nurses, they just decided to pick it up and carry it out. Thankfully they couldn't maneouvre it down the stairs.

amacachi

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I went to school with two Travellers, sound lads, were two of my best mates until i was about 16 and they both moved away.

Their parents had decided they wanted the kids to get a proper education so they settled in a dedicated site near my home town and sent the kids to the local school.

Oddly enough this did not settle well with their extended family and they were basically ostricised from the Traveling community at the time, which i thought was ****ing nuts. It caused a huge amount of heartache for the parents but they refused to back down from their position that the kids needed a proper education.

That's the issue right there. Education and all the rest is there for them if they want to use it. Those who don't use it and then try to cry discrimination can **** right off.

amacachi

Dan133269 wrote: »

A traveller on boards, jaysus that would be a new one.

I qualify under the government's definition of one so it's not that new.

krudler

krudler wrote: »

resources, education and medical support are all there if they started living within the law and paying tax like everyone else. It staggers me that travellers ask for so much yet give so little to the society they want money from.

Actually not necessarily education. There have been massive cutbacks with regards to this.

Thing is, travelers keep going on about how they're discriminated against. Here's the problem though; a small number of them is the root of this discrimination. A small number gets into fights (I remember walking past two members of the traveling community just after a fight with some random guys and one remarks to the other, quite joyously, about how he had broken the guys nose), steal and causes a lot of problems.

If they want to change this, it won't be achieved through those TV shows that are doing the rounds lately, trying to get us to understand them. The only way is if they root out that small number and stop them.