Newly/Soon to be Irish Qualified players

RoundBox11

There has been a lot of talk of Richardt Strauss soon becoming eligable to play for Ireland and I was just wondering are there any other players of note that are soon to be eligible or recently eligible to wear the green jersey? Or are there many playing outside Ireland with Irish heritage that have shown an interest in playing for Ireland?

Only realised recently that Leo Auva'a is eligible through residency and i've heard guys like Robbie Diack will be eligible soon.

shuffol

AFAIK Diack is already qualified though its irrelevant as he wouldnt even be in the top 10 backrows in the country, same for Auva'a

RoundBox11

shuffol wrote: »

AFAIK Diack is already qualified though its irrelevant as he wouldnt even be in the top 10 backrows in the country, same for Auva'a

I think Auva'a has gotten better this season and would offers more physical presence than any of our other options at 8

shuffol

RoundBox11 wrote: »

I think Auva'a has gotten better this season and would offers more physical presence than any of our other options at 8

He's 28 this year and has only played at ML level so far, generally in games where Leinsters pack is well on top. Against a top side his power would be less notable and his weaknesses more exposed.

Podge_irl

Au'va has definitely improved, but he's still a fairly route 1 number 8. Rabo is his standard (though he's a good Rabo player).

Fishooks12

RoundBox11 wrote: »

I think Auva'a has gotten better this season and would offers more physical presence than any of our other options at 8

Coughlan and Heaslip are so far ahead of Auv'a in terms of quality it's not even funny

He's grand in the raboo, a decent 8 when on form but he's not related to an international quality 8

ambid

RoundBox11 wrote: »

There has been a lot of talk of Richardt Strauss soon becoming eligable to play for Ireland and I was just wondering are there any other players of note that are soon to be eligible or recently eligible to wear the green jersey? Or are there many playing outside Ireland with Irish heritage that have shown an interest in playing for Ireland?

Only realised recently that Leo Auva'a is eligible through residency and i've heard guys like Robbie Diack will be eligible soon.

Interesting thread...

I think some players who will/ would be qualified include:

• Strauss (Leinster - in November 2012)
• White (Leinster - in 2014)
• Borlase (Munster - in 2013?)
• Ah You (Connacht - in 2013?)
• Payne (Ulster - in 2014)
• Diack (Ulster - now)

I'm not sure if Wilkinson qualified on ancestry or residence. I'm sure there are lots more who others can fill in.

tolosenc

ambid wrote: »

I'm not sure if Wilkinson qualified on ancestry or residence. I'm sure there are lots more who others can fill in.

Pretty sure it was residency.

siltirocker

tolosenc wrote: »

Pretty sure it was residency.

Wilkinson's entire professional career has been at Connacht. 7 years thus far.

They picked him up from a University B team and put him in the Connacht academy when he was 20 and had only been playing as a prop forward for like 6 months or something mad like that. (I believe he was spotted while one of the coaches was on holiday).

[Jackass]

Re Auva'a, he is a quality Pro12 player, and could be useful off the bench in Heineken Cup, but in terms of technical ability, he's not the type of guy who's going to get a match winning turn over on his own line in a Heineken Cup semi final, such as Heaslip did last season. - Barnstorming runs do not make a player, and although Heaslip and O'Brien have been well marked, and rightly so, in recent times, that's not to say they're poor by any standards, their other work is priceless.

Wilkinson should be second choice loose head imo.

Strauss will push hard for Ireland's starting jersey.

Didn't know White was a project player, and he could be very handy to have on board indeed. For my money he's better than Ross as it stands. Hopefully he hangs around Connacht for a few more seasons, was fairly disappointed to see him leaving Leinster.

If only Nacewa could get his one fiji cap nulled! :pac:

There aren't a huge amount of game changing NIQ's coming through who could become IQ other than Strauss though as far as I'm aware.

boredatwork82

Rogers From Connacht,
he spent a season under 20 here, and then he is in his second season this time round. does the 3 years have to be continuous?

Can't be any worse than Court and seems to be able to hold his own anytime I have seen him. good around the pitch too.

Also a sound guy. We are not blessed with props so he could be useful.

CIARAN_BOYLE

[Jackass] wrote: »

Didn't know White was a project player, and he could be very handy to have on board indeed. For my money he's better than Ross as it stands. Hopefully he hangs around Connacht for a few more seasons, was fairly disappointed to see him leaving Leinster.

He didn't come with aspirations of a green jersey but was made an offer by Joe at the reccomendation of Jonno who played with him. Given the financial problems in the NPC and the fact that Super Rugby wasn't looking at him up at all White accepted, after all with the short contract lenght he could make it back to NZ for next years NPC.

On the back of his performances in Leinster Connacht got in and made an offer that would keep him in Ireland untill he qualified and for another year.

Wexfordboy89

only problem with white is his age think hes 30/31 so he`ll be a bit on the old side but he could do a job for 2/3 years all the same??

Hype710

Wouldn't be surprised to see both Strauss and White start for Ireland in the front row in 2015.

irishbucsfan

Hype710 wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised to see both Strauss and White start for Ireland in the front row in 2015.

White will be 34, I'd like to think we can hopefully produce someone younger by then.

Fireball07

irishbucsfan wrote: »

White will be 34, I'd like to think we can hopefully produce someone younger by then.

Me too.

As I've said before, I'm not a massive fan of the whole idea of project players. That said, if White was qualified a few years earlier, I'd definitely fast-track him in. Desperate times call for desperate measures..... but instead we're stuck with what we have.

nkay1985

Do you all think Strauss will definitely decide to play for us? It'd be great if he did.

CIARAN_BOYLE

nkay1985 wrote: »

Do you all think Strauss will definitely decide to play for us? It'd be great if he did.

yeah he will

funky penguin

There was an interview recently where he basically said he wanted to play, wasn't there? Can't remember correctly. he also trained a wee bit with them during the 6ns.

almighty1

funky penguin wrote: »

There was an interview recently where he basically said he wanted to play, wasn't there? Can't remember correctly. he also trained a wee bit with them during the 6ns.

Interesting photo. Hope to see more of this come next years six nations.

bamboozle

Fireball07 wrote: »

Me too.

As I've said before, I'm not a massive fan of the whole idea of project players. That said, if White was qualified a few years earlier, I'd definitely fast-track him in. Desperate times call for desperate measures..... but instead we're stuck with what we have.

White's a good player but i dont want to see him or Strauss in an irish jersey, simple reason we've good enough players coming through, there were 3 props who started/played for the U20's in this years 6N's & we held the monster english scrum steady, add in the injured Tadhg Furlong & O'Connell from last year and the likes of Jack McGrath, Cotter at YM etc these lads need to be developed properly, they should be getting serious AIL and B&I exposure to aid their development.

Current AIL rules concerning contracted players is doing a disservice to the league & the clubs & most importantly the players who are not getting the game time we need.

siltirocker

My thoughts exactly. Bringing in a foreign player should only be done if we are light in this area. We have Best, Cronin and Varley. We don’t need Strauss regardless of how good he is.

And I sincerely doubt it was his dream as a lad to represent Ireland.

irishbucsfan

I would like to see a change in the rules to make it harder to qualify but until then I don't think its really fair to say Strauss isn't Irish enough.

Who knows, he might become a legendary performer in a green jersey and then live here and spawn an Irish dynasty of international Strausses!

I would like to see an end to the project player thing though, its an open admission that we're looking to pilfer players of other nationalities. Id rather see the money from those project contracts put into the grassroots.

funky penguin

siltirocker wrote: »

My thoughts exactly. Bringing in a foreign player should only be done if we are light in this area. We have Best, Cronin and Varley. We don’t need Strauss regardless of how good he is.

And I sincerely doubt it was his dream as a lad to represent Ireland.

I can see your point there, and it is a strange notion in most sports to see foreigners get positions in the national set up.

But personally, I'm of the opinion that if he plays for Ireland like he does for Leinster now, I'm all for it.

He is fully committed to playing for Leinster and if that transfers over to the international squad, I couldn't care less about his childhood dreams.

JustinDee

siltirocker wrote: »

My thoughts exactly. Bringing in a foreign player should only be done if we are light in this area. We have Best, Cronin and Varley. We don’t need Strauss regardless of how good he is

You realise how strange it is to say that? "Regardless of how good they are"??

siltirocker wrote: »

And I sincerely doubt it was his dream as a lad to represent Ireland.

Irrelevant. I don't think you're in any place nearby to doubt his commitment to an Ireland squad if selected.

Amazotheamazing

JustinDee wrote: »

You realise how strange it is to say that? "Regardless of how good they are"??


Irrelevant. I don't think you're in any place nearby to doubt his commitment to an Ireland squad if selected.

So the national team is just a really good club side you have to wait three years to play for if you're good enough?

I've absolutely zero interest in seeing a South African play for Ireland, or a New Zealander, or an Australian or whatever. Playing for Ireland shouldn't be a safety net for people who aren't good enough to play for their own countries.

merchantdon

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

So the national team is just a really good club side you have to wait three years to play for if you're good enough?

I've absolutely zero interest in seeing a South African play for Ireland, or a New Zealander, or an Australian or whatever. Playing for Ireland shouldn't be a safety net for people who aren't good enough to play for their own countries.

Tom Court, Ronan O'Gara, Jamie Heaslip - Australia, USA & Israel, just because your born or even grew up in one country doesn't mean that you can't feel just as loyal to an adopted country!

If they want to commit to the cause then i have no issue where there born.

leftleg

If they are good enough to play for Ireland; have been here for the necessary period as set out in the rules; and provide healthy and strong competition in the postion(s) they play in; so be it; I'm all for it;

Strauss has worked his socks off since he signed for Leinster; he seems to be the consummate pro; never in trouble on or off the pitch; complete workhorse; rehabs really quickly from injury so must have a healthy lifestyle; fair duce to him

siltirocker

JustinDee wrote: »

You realise how strange it is to say that? "Regardless of how good they are"??


Irrelevant. I don't think you're in any place nearby to doubt his commitment to an Ireland squad if selected.

I completely disagree then. I wouldn't feel right if Dan Carter played here for 3 years and declared for Ireland if we had ROG or Sexton.

I want Irish lads representing Ireland.

And to me it is very relevant. I would expect commitment as a minimum. I'd be committed to a wage boost and the chance of international rugby for a top tier nation.

It doesn't change the fact that he is not Irish, was not introduced by our system and 2 years ago he might not have been able to point to Ireland on a map.

irishbucsfan

merchantdon wrote: »

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

So the national team is just a really good club side you have to wait three years to play for if you're good enough?

I've absolutely zero interest in seeing a South African play for Ireland, or a New Zealander, or an Australian or whatever. Playing for Ireland shouldn't be a safety net for people who aren't good enough to play for their own countries.

Tom Court, Ronan O'Gara, Jamie Heaslip - Australia, USA & Israel, just because your born or even grew up in one country doesn't mean that you can't feel just as loyal to an adopted country!

If they want to commit to the cause then i have no issue where there born.

All of them qualified through lineage and learned their rugby in ireland. Different thing entirely. Especially ROG and Heaslip which are laughable examples

JustinDee

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

So the national team is just a really good club side you have to wait three years to play for if you're good enough?

Is there any particular parameter for this ubermenschen criteria to play for a country that you would allow remain?
Plenty of "foreigners" have played for Ireland (Geoghegan, Easterby bros, Henderson, Court, Maggs, McCarthy, and still do.
Personally I am yet be convinced by anyone bemoaning a player who commits to and lives in a country while strangely they ignore another who claims by way of 'heritage' such as a grandparent.
Its not exactly drinking a pint of Guinness in a green skirt while reading 'Ulysses' and singing along to the Commitments soundtrack.

Amazotheamazing

JustinDee wrote: »

Is there any particular parameter for this ubermenschen criteria to play for a country that you would allow remain?
Plenty of "foreigners" have played for Ireland (Geoghegan, Easterby bros, Henderson, Court, Maggs, McCarthy, and still do.
Personally I am yet be convinced by anyone bemoaning a player who commits to and lives in a country while strangely they ignore another who claims by way of 'heritage' such as a grandparent.
Its not exactly drinking a pint of Guinness in a green skirt while reading 'Ulysses' and singing along to the Commitments soundtrack.

I guess my main criteria is they would at least be in some way Irish. Personally, I don't even like the grandparent rule.

leftleg

irishbucsfan wrote: »

All of them qualified through lineage and learned their rugby in ireland. Different thing entirely. Especially ROG and Heaslip which are laughable examples

Didn't Court play for the Queensland Reds??

leftleg

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I guess my main criteria is they would at least be in some way Irish. Personally, I don't even like the grandparent rule.

That's a bit vague isn't it; what exactly is "in some way Irish"?

JustinDee

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I guess my main criteria is they would at least be in some way Irish. Personally, I don't even like the grandparent rule.

Thats not a parameter though. You need a definition with criteria.
Opinion doesn't qualify a player for a national side.

Amazotheamazing

leftleg wrote: »

That's a bit vague isn't it; what exactly is "in some way Irish"?

Well personally I'd limit it to people born or raised here but I accept that that doesn't sit well with the disapora.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I guess my main criteria is they would at least be in some way Irish. Personally, I don't even like the grandparent rule.

Thats not a parameter though. You need a definition with criteria.
Opinion doesn't qualify a player for a national side.

The parameter could easilly be nationality. Irish passport required.

Amazotheamazing

JustinDee wrote: »

Thats not a parameter though. You need a definition with criteria.
Opinion doesn't qualify a player for a national side.

The rules are arbitrary though, why grandparents and not great-grandparents, why three years and not five, etc? Let's not pretend it's an exact science.

JustinDee

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The rules are arbitrary though, why grandparents and not great-grandparents, why three years and not five, etc? Let's not pretend it's an exact science.

Nothing arbitrary in that. A grand-parent is required, if not residency. Simple.
You've still to define what you consider to be 'Irish enough'. What makes me more Irish than Simon Geoghegan even though I've an Aussie passport (dual) and was born outside Ireland?

JustinDee

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The parameter could easilly be nationality. Irish passport required.

So all a player has to do is marry an Irish citizen and not have played for another country?

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

Nothing arbitrary in that. A grand-parent is required, if not residency. Simple.
You've still to define what you consider to be 'Irish enough'. What makes me more Irish than Simon Geoghegan even though I've an Aussie passport (dual) and was born outside Ireland?

You don't want to play for Ireland for starters, so your grand:D

.ak

JustinDee wrote: »

What makes me more Irish than Simon Geoghegan even though I've an Aussie passport (dual) and was born outside Ireland?

....The craic? Maybe that could also be a definition?

Def 1a to Law b) Player must be able bodied and willing to have the craic.

JustinDee

.ak wrote: »

....The craic? Maybe that could also be a definition?

Def 1a to Law b) Player must be able bodied and willing to have the craic.

lol

leftleg

.ak wrote: »

....The craic? Maybe that could also be a definition?

Def 1a to Law b) Player must be able bodied and willing to have the craic.

lol
Well everyone else's excuses for not wanting un-Irish Irish players playing for Ireland have been filled with enough grey area to fill a rain cloud so why not have a bit of craic thrown in as well:D

bamboozle

comical people using the examples of Heaslip and ROG on here.

Criteria for me would be very simple. Irish born, Irish Parents, Irish Grandparents.

maybe also circumstances where someone is raised and educated in this country.

Amazotheamazing

JustinDee wrote: »

Nothing arbitrary in that. A grand-parent is required, if not residency. Simple.
You've still to define what you consider to be 'Irish enough'. What makes me more Irish than Simon Geoghegan even though I've an Aussie passport (dual) and was born outside Ireland?

I don't think you are more Irish than him.

And certainly I think if we accept grand-parents are a close enough link we may as well pretend great grandparents are close enough.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The parameter could easilly be nationality. Irish passport required.

So all a player has to do is marry an Irish citizen and not have played for another country?

Obviously loopholes would have to be closed off. The point is that I would just like it to be more difficult to declare for Ireland.

And also I would like to see the IRFU stop looking at the minimum residency period as a target.

.ak

bamboozle wrote: »

comical people using the examples of Heaslip and ROG on here.

Criteria for me would be very simple. Irish born, Irish Parents, Irish Grandparents.

maybe also circumstances where someone is raised and educated in this country.

That's a little harsh imo. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of 'project' players being imported with the hope of people playing for Ireland at some point, but there's definitely something to be said for players that been plying their trade in Ireland for years... You have to understand these guys don't just come over here to play Rugby, they come over, make it their home, raise their children in Irish schools, drink Irish tea, pay Irish taxes.... It would seem unfair to exclude players like that who would want to pull on the Irish jersey with pride.

If Nacewa tomorrow was somehow available for Ireland I'd have no problem with him playing for the setup. Not because of his skillset, but because he's as Irish to me as anyone I know - he's made Ireland his home and I'd be bitterly disappointed if someone like that was told no because he wasn't born here or educated here.

WeeBushy

I don't have any problem with someone like Strauss playing for Ireland. He came to Ireland, put his head down, developed into one of the best hookers in the HC, whenever he has been asked about playing for Ireland he's said nothing but the right things, and he turned down an invitation to train with the Boks before the WC (I think...). If he's picked for Ireland in the future I think he'll have fully deserved it. He's put in his time and tbh I'd prefer someone like him playing for Ireland than a 'real' Irish player who takes the piss. Not that any of those are around atm.

I do have a problem with someone like Flutey qualifying for England and then instantly moving to France once he qualified for the pay cheque. That's taking the mick out of the system. But without making it completely unworkable there's always going to be a few players who make a mockery of it. But as long as they are kept to a minimum I don't see it as a big problem.

JustinDee

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I don't think you are more Irish than him

Well, I am.

Amazotheamazing

JustinDee wrote: »

Well, I am.

It's between ye to work it out.