Gatland to be Lions coach.

harvester of sorrow

Just heard on the radio that Gatland is to be the 2013 Lions coach.
No suprise really considering Wales performance lately.

Otacon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17507668

Warren Gatland offered British and Irish Lions head coach job

Wales coach Warren Gatland has been offered the job of leading the British and Irish Lions on their 2013 tour to Australia, BBC Wales Sport understands.

Gatland was interviewed for the head coach job in London on Wednesday before returning to his native New Zealand.

Representatives of the 48-year-old, who has just led Wales to the second Grand Slam of his time in charge, are now believed to have begun contract talks.

Gatland's appointment is expected to be finalised in the next month.

Not entirely unexpected. I guess that means Warburton is nailed on captain, if fit.

spank_inferno

How is the management assigned?

Has there ever been an Irish coach leading the lions?

I'm pretty excited to see "Gatland rugby" with the Lions resources.

An Tarbh

spank_inferno wrote: »

How is the management assigned?

Has there ever been an Irish coach leading the lions?

Syd Millar was coach in 74. Noel Murphy was in charge in 1980. There's been others as well just can't think of them.

Teferi

You'd have to wonder if this will effect the selection of Irish players for the Lions.

Gatland has shown in the past to be quite bitter towards the IRFU and although he has quieted down a bit recently I'd imagine that is still there.

He obviously couldn't ignore the in form players like Kearney but if a selection is 50/50 I wouldn't be surprised for him to go with a non-Irish option to get one over on the IRFU.

rainbowdash

Teferi wrote: »

You'd have to wonder if this will effect the selection of Irish players for the Lions.

Gatland has shown in the past to be quite bitter towards the IRFU and although he has quieted down a bit recently I'd imagine that is still there.

He obviously couldn't ignore the in form players like Kearney but if a selection is 50/50 I wouldn't be surprised for him to go with a non-Irish option to get one over on the IRFU.

Its a bit like the GAA allstars IMO, the team that does best in the 2013 Six Nations can probably expect to have the biggest representation.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Well deserved, and the best choice IMO

lologram

Otacon wrote: »

Not entirely unexpected. I guess that means Warburton is nailed on captain, if fit.

BDJW wrote: »

Well deserved, and the best choice IMO

I'll be uttering BDJW's words about Warburton when/if he's named captain too.

Reloc8

An Tarbh wrote: »

Syd Millar was coach in 74. Noel Murphy was in charge in 1980. There's been others as well just can't think of them.

Willis John McBride in NZ in 1983 was manager with Jim Telfer as coach.

bilston

He deserves it, he's been pretty succesful in just about every job he's had, be it Ireland (the revival started under him), Wasps or Wales...yes I still remember Lens in 1999...

jm08

lologram wrote: »

I'll be uttering BDJW's words about Warburton when/if he's named captain too.

I don't get that. warburton has not been there when the going got tough for wales. ryan jones and Matt Rees must be really getting pissed off now.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

lologram wrote: »

I'll be uttering BDJW's words about Warburton when/if he's named captain too.

I don't get that. warburton has not been there when the going got tough for wales. ryan jones and Matt Rees must be really getting pissed off now.

He hasn't been on the field. Who knows what contribution he's made off it. That's important for a Lions captain too.

Kidney could well go as tour manager or something. Eddie went while head coach of Ireland.

totallegend

bilston wrote: »

He deserves it, he's been pretty succesful in just about every job he's had, be it Ireland (the revival started under him), Wasps or Wales...yes I still remember Lens in 1999...

But he did manage to win in Paris a few months later, also after leaving Wasps he won the NPC in New Zealand.

He was the only choice, really, especially since he has experience of the Lions from 2009.

lologram

jm08 wrote: »

I don't get that. warburton has not been there when the going got tough for wales. ryan jones and Matt Rees must be really getting pissed off now.

Which bit? Warburton is Wales captain and generally thought of as one of their best players. He missed two 6N games due to injury and was sent off in the World Cup (which has been discussed to death). I'd struggle to think any of the Welsh players have anything personal against him either. He seems like a super professional.

Warburton has 12 starts for Wales this season. 6 at RWC, 3 in the 6N, 3 in other tests. He has 8 starts from the previous season.

Ryan Jones has 5 starts this season and 6 sub appearances. There's some evidence for Gatland et al think of Jones as less critical to Wales than Warburton. As in, they don't pick him. Also I don't think anyone around thinks R. Jones should be in the running for Lions Captain.

Rees has 2 starts this season, 1 sub. Obviously he was injured for the RWC but if his absence for that whole tournament is acceptable because he was injured, doesn't that mean that Warburton's missing of 2 games in the 6N is also, by the same logic?

Those figures are from here http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/wales_seniors.php

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He hasn't been on the field. Who knows what contribution he's made off it. That's important for a Lions captain too.

I don't know about that. think BOD said he was sorry he didnt leave the Lions when he got speared.

Kidney could well go as tour manager or something. Eddie went while head coach of Ireland.

Think they have appointed a tour manager - scottish bloke.

Eoin

It is not more likely that the Captain won't be Welsh?

Do they not like to spread around the honours a little, or is that just how it's happened to work in recent years?

Conas

I'm very happy that Gatland got the job. Imagine Kidney got it? Probaly pick the same team every week, even during the warm up matches.

With regards to the captain, I think two of our own could be in with a shout. O'Connell could very well get the gig again, or Drico. I actually think we'll win this tour. I mean it's scary to think of the players Gatland has to pick from now. This will be the strongest Lions team we've ever had. We'll have a massive backline. I'm really excited even though it's well over a year away.

Cardinal Richelieu

Lions management positions are always political with jobs parceled out among the Home Nations. That said this Lions tour may be going for continuity since Gatland already has Lions experience as the forwards coach on the 2009 tour with his fellow Welsh team of Shaun Edwards, Neil Jenkins and Robert Howley so it makes sense to keep with that team. I can see them going again with Rowntree as Scrummage coach and bring in Andy Robinson to take over Gatland old position as forwards coach. Andy Irvine from Scotland is Tour Manager.

jm08

lologram wrote: »

Which bit? Warburton is Wales captain and generally thought of as one of their best players. He missed two 6N games due to injury and was sent off in the World Cup (which has been discussed to death). I'd struggle to think any of the Welsh players have anything personal against him either. He seems like a super professional.

Warburton has 12 starts for Wales this season. 6 at RWC, 3 in the 6N, 3 in other tests. He has 8 starts from the previous season.

Ryan Jones has 5 starts this season and 6 sub appearances. There's some evidence for Gatland et al think of Jones as less critical to Wales than Warburton. As in, they don't pick him. Also I don't think anyone around thinks R. Jones should be in the running for Lions Captain.

Rees has 2 starts this season, 1 sub. Obviously he was injured for the RWC but if his absence for that whole tournament is acceptable because he was injured, doesn't that mean that Warburton's missing of 2 games in the 6N is also, by the same logic?

Those figures are from here http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/wales_seniors.php

warburton record after Ireland win in world cup:

sent off against france (loss)
missed the playoffs and wales were 4th.
captain for loss to Australia in the mellenium stadium

6Ns
Ireland game - went off at half time (wales went onto win without him)
England - played 80 mins
france - played 40 min
scotland - missed
italy - missed

He has played 160 mins of 6Ns rugby this season (out of a possible 400 mins) - not even half the tournament.

source- www.itsrugby.co.uk

he seems to get injured a fair bit and wales seem to have done well without him.

totallegend

Topic is the Lions coach. There are other threads about the captaincy.

Otacon

totallegend wrote: »

Topic is the Lions coach. There are other threads about the captaincy.

What's there to discuss now except speculation on his decisions? The primary one being the captaincy.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

lologram wrote: »

Which bit? Warburton is Wales captain and generally thought of as one of their best players. He missed two 6N games due to injury and was sent off in the World Cup (which has been discussed to death). I'd struggle to think any of the Welsh players have anything personal against him either. He seems like a super professional.

Warburton has 12 starts for Wales this season. 6 at RWC, 3 in the 6N, 3 in other tests. He has 8 starts from the previous season.

Ryan Jones has 5 starts this season and 6 sub appearances. There's some evidence for Gatland et al think of Jones as less critical to Wales than Warburton. As in, they don't pick him. Also I don't think anyone around thinks R. Jones should be in the running for Lions Captain.

Rees has 2 starts this season, 1 sub. Obviously he was injured for the RWC but if his absence for that whole tournament is acceptable because he was injured, doesn't that mean that Warburton's missing of 2 games in the 6N is also, by the same logic?

Those figures are from here http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/wales_seniors.php

warburton record after Ireland win in world cup:

sent off against france (loss)
missed the playoffs and wales were 4th.
captain for loss to Australia in the mellenium stadium

6Ns
Ireland game - went off at half time (wales went onto win without him)
England - played 80 mins
france - played 40 min
scotland - missed
italy - missed

He has played 160 mins of 6Ns rugby this season (out of a possible 400 mins) - not even half the tournament.

source- www.itsrugby.co.uk

he seems to get injured a fair bit and wales seem to have done well without him.

Regarding the world cup...

So basically Wales started losing in the world cup when he wasn't there? You could easilly say all their good performances came with him on the field.

I don't think there's enough of an example of his ability as captain thus far. Wouldn't be surprised if someone else got it... Although I dunno if Garland would appoint an Irishman

CIARAN_BOYLE

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Lions management positions are always political with jobs parceled out among the Home Nations. That said this Lions tour may be going for continuity since Gatland already has Lions experience as the forwards coach on the 2009 tour with his fellow Welsh team of Shaun Edwards, Neil Jenkins and Robert Howley so it makes sense to keep with that team. I can see them going again with Rowntree as Scrummage coach and bring in Andy Robinson to take over Gatland old position as forwards coach. Andy Irvine from Scotland is Tour Manager.

I doubt Gatlands management team will all come to the Lions I reckon they will want to stay on and go for the interim head coach job

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Regarding the world cup...

So basically Wales started losing in the world cup when he wasn't there? You could easilly say all their good performances came with him on the field.

I don't think there's enough of an example of his ability as captain thus far. Wouldn't be surprised if someone else got it... Although I dunno if Garland would appoint an Irishman

Wales lost to South Africa in the world cup (good performance though sa were not great in the end).

They beat Samoa (just about), Namibia & Fiji - not exactly world rugby powerhouses.

So you agree with me about his captaincy skills I havent seen much of them.

If there is no Irish person involved in the management, the likelyhood is that the captaincy will go to an Irishman (perhaps bod or POC).

When you think about it, McGahan was a good appointment by the wallabies. He will have a detailed dossier on every player likely to feature for the Lions.

Webbs

Being captain isnt really about results as he is only one man (though obviously this helps) If he makes good on and off field decisions and leads by example then that is what makes a good captain and as it stands Warburton hasnt really put a foot wrong

All 3 Warburton BOD and POC are great leading from the front, however I guess the Captain has to firstly be 100% nailed on for starting position and Gatland will also have seen what a difference Warburton has made off the field to the Welsh players attitude.

So as Gatland will have seen Warburtons off field captaincy first hand I am guessing this will put him in pole position.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

Wales lost to South Africa in the world cup (good performance though sa were not great in the end).

They beat Samoa (just about), Namibia & Fiji - not exactly world rugby powerhouses.

So you agree with me about his captaincy skills I havent seen much of them.

If there is no Irish person involved in the management, the likelyhood is that the captaincy will go to an Irishman (perhaps bod or POC).

When you think about it, McGahan was a good appointment by the wallabies. He will have a detailed dossier on every player likely to feature for the Lions.

Warburton if fit will be captain. Why would having many Welsh and no Irish selecting the captain, make them more likely to chose an Irishman over a Welshman?

jm08

Webbs wrote: »

Being captain isnt really about results as he is only one man (though obviously this helps) If he makes good on and off field decisions and leads by example then that is what makes a good captain and as it stands Warburton hasnt really put a foot wrong

All 3 Warburton BOD and POC are great leading from the front, however I guess the Captain has to firstly be 100% nailed on for starting position and Gatland will also have seen what a difference Warburton has made off the field to the Welsh players attitude.

So as Gatland will have seen Warburtons off field captaincy first hand I am guessing this will put him in pole position.

Mostly he hasnt been on the pitch to make any decisions (and he did get sent off which badly affected his team). Otherwise wales have got on very well without him . think mike phillips is very underated as a decision maker and leader for that team.

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

Warburton if fit will be captain. Why would having many Welsh and no Irish selecting the captain, make them more likely to chose an Irishman over a Welshman?

Thats the thing, he doesn't seem to last too many games.

A team dominated by welsh coaching staff and players isn't really going to appeal to anyone outside of wales, except diehard lions fans. Can't see the English media/sky sports being too happy about that.

I don't think its chosing an irishman over a welshman, it could be an Englishman, but I can't think of anyone who would have the credentials. Also Brian O'Driscoll appeals to everyone.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

Thats the thing, he doesn't seem to last too many games.

A team dominated by welsh coaching staff and players isn't really going to appeal to anyone outside of wales, except diehard lions fans. Can't see the English media/sky sports being too happy about that.

I don't think its chosing an irishman over a welshman, it could be an Englishman, but I can't think of anyone who would have the credentials. Also Brian O'Driscoll appeals to everyone.

Of course it all depends on what happens between now and then, but BOD will be doing well to get a start in that team. Even if he does he will almost certainly be hauled off early.

Cool_CM

jm08 wrote: »

If there is no Irish person involved in the management, the likelyhood is that the captaincy will go to an Irishman (perhaps bod or POC).

How do you figure that?

If there are no Irish people involved in the management then they probably won't have gotten it on merit.
Same goes for the captaincy.

jm08

Cool_CM wrote: »

How do you figure that?

If there are no Irish people involved in the management then they probably won't have gotten it on merit.
Same goes for the captaincy.

Isnt that how it worked out last time ? Non-Irish management, Irish captain. As for the merit tough, both BOD or paul o'connell are highly regarded as captains and if fit will not disadvantage a team. Warburton hasnt even been on a Lions tour before to know what its like.

A lot of the selections are political. Phil vickery preferred to adam jones wass the only logic for that selection imo.

Cardinal Richelieu

jm08 wrote: »

Isnt that how it worked out last time ? Non-Irish management, Irish captain. As for the merit tough, both BOD or paul o'connell are highly regarded as captains and if fit will not disadvantage a team. Warburton hasnt even been on a Lions tour before to know what its like.

A lot of the selections are political. Phil vickery preferred to adam jones wass the only logic for that selection imo.

Depends if they stick with the management structure from the last Lions tour or Clive Woodward 2005 structure were everyone from the home unions had a job. If Howley is taking over Wales for 2013 that leaves the Attacking Coach and Forwards Coach positions open with Shaun Edwards, Neil Jenkins
and Rowntree staying on.

Cool_CM

In a bizarre twist it looks like this one may be in doubt:

Irish Times wrote:

Gatland tour doubt following tumble

Rugby: Warren Gatland's wife says a decision on whether he will oversee Wales' summer tour of Australia will be made "closer to the time".


Gatland is set for surgery in New Zealand to reconstruct his right heel after he fell from a ladder while cleaning windows of the family holiday home at Wahi Beach.

Gatland had been due to return to Wales this week following time off after leading the side to the RBS Six Nations Grand Slam.

He suffered multiple fractures to his right heel and a single fracture of the left heel, and he now faces several weeks recuperating in Hamilton after the operation.

Wales play the Barbarians in Cardiff on June 2, before heading Down Under for three Tests against Australia and a midweek fixture against the Brumbies in Canberra.

The Welsh Rugby Union already have detailed contingency plans in place, with assistant coach Rob Howley ready to step up if Gatland cannot take charge of the trip.

"The coaches are just going to step up and do the job of getting the boys prepared for Australia, and then Warren will see closer to the time whether he can get to Australia or not," Trudy Gatland told the Waikato Times.

Recalling the accident on Easter Monday, she added: "Luckily he landed on his feet, because he could have landed on his head.

"He landed falling backwards, so his heels took the impact and the calcaneus bone, that heel bone, is a really painful injury. He's being very brave, but it is very painful.

"He is hopeful it won't be too long that he is off his feet, but he is going to be in two casts initially.

"His left foot hopefully will mend quite quickly because it's just got one fracture on the heel, but the other one that needs the surgery has a lot more shattered pieces."

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0413/1224314718752.html

Teferi

He'll still be Lions coach...he just in doubt for the Welsh tour this summer.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Teferi wrote: »

He'll still be Lions coach...he just in doubt for the Welsh tour this summer.

but if he misses the Welsh tour will that count as the sabatical allowed in his contract?? If so then he will have to renegotiate or walk out on his contract with Wales in order to take up the Lions job.