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Luas - right to stop you and check tickets on the platform?

  • 25-03-2012 11:29am
    #1
    podgeandrodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,912 ✭✭✭


    I see on the Luas website that:

    "Please be advised that ticket checks occur on-board & on stop platforms when a passenger has alighted a tram.

    Tickets are checked by uniformed & plain clothes staff.

    We will always show you an identification card prior to your ticket being checked."

    I'm curious - obviously they have a right to check your tickets while you are on the tram - but do they really have a right to stop you outside it - is the platform their property like the tram or is it public space etc etc?

    Edit: Answered my own question - Luas bylaws:

    4. (1) A passenger, on entering a light rail vehicle, who is not in possession of a valid ticket, is liable to pay the standard fare.



    (2) Where an authorised person observes an individual alighting from a light rail vehicle they may request that the individual produces a valid ticket for inspection on the stop platform.



    (3) A passenger alighting from a light rail vehicle, who is not in possession of a valid ticket, is liable to pay the standard fare.



    (4) An individual at a stop platform is not taken to be travelling on a tram service unless they came there by alighting from a tram.


Comments

  • #2
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,574 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Its not unreasonable.

    If you are at a stop and there is no tram, you should either have a ticket or be buying one, otherwise you are loitering.

    If you've just got off a tram, you should have a ticket.

    The platforms are RPA property.


  • #3
    Jev/N
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    Seems they changed the bye-laws, it usen't to have (2) as stated in the OP


  • #4
    coylemj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,619 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Victor wrote: »
    If you are at a stop and there is no tram, you should either have a ticket or be buying one, otherwise you are loitering.

    That's a bit harsh, you could be waiting to pickup someone who is on a tram that's due to arrive soon. The by-laws acknowledge that not everyone standing at a stop is required to have a ticket.......


    (4) An individual at a stop platform is not taken to be travelling on a tram service unless they came there by alighting from a tram

    If I was standing inside Heuston Station (i.e. on Iarnrod Eireann property), not in possesion of a rail ticket but simply waiting for someone off the Galway train, would I be 'loitering'?


  • #5
    Chopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Chopp


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    I see on the Luas website that:

    "Please be advised that ticket checks occur on-board & on stop platforms when a passenger has alighted a tram.

    Tickets are checked by uniformed & plain clothes staff.

    We will always show you an identification card prior to your ticket being checked."

    I'm curious - obviously they have a right to check your tickets while you are on the tram - but do they really have a right to stop you outside it - is the platform their property like the tram or is it public space etc etc?

    Edit: Answered my own question - Luas bylaws:

    4. (1) A passenger, on entering a light rail vehicle, who is not in possession of a valid ticket, is liable to pay the standard fare.



    (2) Where an authorised person observes an individual alighting from a light rail vehicle they may request that the individual produces a valid ticket for inspection on the stop platform.



    (3) A passenger alighting from a light rail vehicle, who is not in possession of a valid ticket, is liable to pay the standard fare.



    (4) An individual at a stop platform is not taken to be travelling on a tram service unless they came there by alighting from a tram.

    I got asked for a ticket at fatima and just walked on, I don't see any reason how they could stop you if the STT aren't there, the STT are the only ones that could stop you because they're the only ones with batons.


  • #6
    coylemj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,619 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Chopp wrote: »
    I got asked for a ticket at fatima and just walked on, I don't see any reason how they could stop you if the STT aren't there, the STT are the only ones that could stop you because they're the only ones with batons.

    So you'll only comply with a legitimate request because they're carrying weapons. Do you expect ticket inspectors on Dublin Bus to carry guns?


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  • #7
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    "Please be advised that ticket checks occur on-board & on stop platforms when a passenger has alighted a tram.

    Tickets are checked by uniformed & plain clothes staff.

    We will always show you an identification card prior to your ticket being checked."

    They are not talking about ticket checking everyone on the platform, just the right to check those that have alighted the tram. People who got off.


  • #8
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    Chopp wrote: »
    I got asked for a ticket at fatima and just walked on, I don't see any reason how they could stop you if the STT aren't there, the STT are the only ones that could stop you because they're the only ones with batons.

    Can I ask you two questions?

    1) Why would you not show your ticket when requested?
    2) Were you in possession of a valid ticket at the time of this request?

    BTW the ticket inspectors can detain you if they wish.


  • #9
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Victor wrote: »

    If you are at a stop and there is no tram, you should either have a ticket or be buying one, otherwise you are loitering.

    Loitering is a bit harsh. You could easily be waiting for some one who is travelling on a tram.


  • #10
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,574 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I'm sure the difference between the two can be readily ascertained with the particular individual(s).


  • #11
    secretambition
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭secretambition


    I think they have bins on platforms, which may result in some people jumping to the conclusion that it is safe (or even intended) to would dispose of your ticket at that point.


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  • #12
    coylemj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,619 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Victor wrote: »
    Its not unreasonable.
    If you are at a stop and there is no tram, you should either have a ticket or be buying one, otherwise you are loitering.
    coylemj wrote: »
    That's a bit harsh, you could be waiting to pickup someone who is on a tram that's due to arrive soon. The by-laws acknowledge that not everyone standing at a stop is required to have a ticket.......

    (4) An individual at a stop platform is not taken to be travelling on a tram service unless they came there by alighting from a tram
    godtabh wrote: »
    Loitering is a bit harsh. You could easily be waiting for some one who is travelling on a tram.
    Victor wrote: »
    I'm sure the difference between the two can be readily ascertained with the particular individual(s).

    There's not much point in an inspector walking up to someone on the platform and asking to see a ticket if "I'm waiting for someone" is considered an acceptable answer - won't fare evaders just give that answer and thereby render the spot check an exercise in futility?


  • #13
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    coylemj wrote: »
    There's not much point in an inspector walking up to someone on the platform and asking to see a ticket if "I'm waiting for someone" is considered an acceptable answer - won't fare evaders just give that answer and thereby render the spot check an exercise in futility?

    I don't think they are aiming for fair evaders on platforms more to move along the Junkies and the wineos who use it as a nice dry seat.


  • #14
    An Udaras
    Closed Accounts Posts: 283 ✭✭An Udaras


    Chopp wrote: »
    I got asked for a ticket at fatima and just walked on, I don't see any reason how they could stop you if the STT aren't there, the STT are the only ones that could stop you because they're the only ones with batons.

    Just to confirm in no way do STT private security carry any batons or other offensive weapons. They are private security who wear PSA ID Cards. They do not even carry handcuffs.

    They however carry Maglite torches on a duty belt and a radio,first aid pouch and notebook along with a overt Black stab vest.

    And as far we've been previously been able to determine STT are not Authorised persons under he LUAS Byelaws.


  • #15
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    coylemj wrote: »
    There's not much point in an inspector walking up to someone on the platform and asking to see a ticket if "I'm waiting for someone" is considered an acceptable answer - won't fare evaders just give that answer and thereby render the spot check an exercise in futility?

    I don't believe it's aimed at moving certain people off platforms. It's aimed at people who alight from a tram and may have used the excuse of "you can do nothing I'm not on one of your trams".

    It means that people could in theory be checked as they disembark.


  • #16
    secretambition
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭secretambition


    BrianD wrote: »
    I don't believe it's aimed at moving certain people off platforms. It's aimed at people who alight from a tram and may have used the excuse of "you can do nothing I'm not on one of your trams".

    It means that people could in theory be checked as they disembark.

    This is definitely the reason. I had my ticket checked once coming off a tram. But from the crowds of people on the platform, who were all being checked, I don't believe the ticket inspector had any clue whether I'd come off a tram or was passing by.

    The idea that you have no business on a Luas platform if you're not getting the Luas is rubbish in many areas - St. Stephens Green, Abbey Street, Jervis.


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