Running into a Head Wind

dev123

I was badly caught out at the Mallow 10 miler yesterday.

There was a nice stretch of it out the Killarney road that was into a head wind. I was doing about 8.15min/miles into the wind and looking back it would have probably taken less effort to bunch in behind the 8min/mile pace group and stick with them.

On a day when there is going to be a bit of a head wind along the course do people reassess their goal time? Do you accept that today might not be your day, ease back into the wind and stay fresh enough to have a strong finish?

Into the wind my heart rate drifted up while I was maintaing the 8.15min/mile pace to such an extent that maintaining the a 8min/mile pace after the turn back into town and out of the wind was a strugle.

I've a 45:46 10k PB so I would have thought that 8min/miles would have been sustainable. I think that once the heart rate drifted up, I red lined and was cooked.

Any thoughts on handling a head wind greatly appreciated

Dev

TFBubendorfer

Don't try and keep the pace even, try to keep the effort even instead. It's easier said than done, I know. But if the effort is even enough you will lose some time into the wind but make up for it when the wind is on your back.

robinph

I've never really got much benefit from trying to hide behind people when running into a head wind. It's more psychological than anything else I think and just concentrating on not tripping over people's heels keeps you distracted from the wind.

dev123

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Don't try and keep the pace even, try to keep the effort even instead. It's easier said than done, I know. But if the effort is even enough you will lose some time into the wind but make up for it when the wind is on your back.

I think this is where I went wrong. I don't monitor heart rate during the race but do wear a HRM to review the data after.

After yesterdays debacle I am considering monitoring HR during the race and adjust effort accordingly. In the past this hasn't been successful and I think you can get paranoid as your heart rate increases through the race. It may be that I need to start running on feel rather than pace.

The other thing that was playing on my mind is that Daniels mentions in his book that when you have the wind at your back you don't get the same gain in time as you lose going into the wind. There will be a net loss in time for a constant effort. I think thats what he was getting at

robinph wrote: »

I've never really got much benefit from trying to hide behind people when running into a head wind. It's more psychological than anything else I think and just concentrating on not tripping over people's heels keeps you distracted from the wind.

If you are in a pack and concentrating on not tripping over peoples heels I would have thought that there was some benefit from having these runners in front of you. I had no such luxury yesterday but did find some relief from getting in behind even single runners.

T runner

Technique: Keep the effort even as previously said. To do this you must keep the cadence (leg turnover) the same. That means you'll be taking the same amount of steps per minute into the wind as with no wind or wind at back; and the overall effort of each stride is the same. The stride lenght will decrease to allow for this but you wont notice any difference in effort or rythm.

If you ease effort by reducing cadence (very common), you are taking a stronger effort each stride and will tire more quickly. Also youre hang time (time off ground) is longer allowing the wind resist your forward momentum with no counter resistance.

If you are running into a severe headwind you will be forced to work harder, but keeping short strong strides is the way to go. Hang time is more crucial here, and the wind will blow youre form away unless you are efficient and compact.

Racing: Running in someones slipstream is a huge advantage into a wind, even on a still day.

On a race with wind you need to know where the windy parts are going to be. If you cant get out on the course assess wind direction and work out whichs ections are exposed to the wind. Then you can plan to be in a group for those sections. For example if youre in a group and you feel like pushing on, knowing that a headwind for 2k is imminent will mean that you sit into that group for 2k. Also, if youre in a group that youre struggling to hold pace with and want to let go; knowing a headwind is approaching with subsequent pace drop means that it is very much in your interest to work to stay with that group.

I.e racing into a headwind, find shelter in a group.

Remember also that the advantage of a tailwind is somewhat negated by someone running directly behind you.

Training: pick a route that has shelter from wind on windy days: if running a loop pik a direction with more wind on back. Its almost always better to train running relatively faster than slower.

dev123

T runner wrote: »

Technique: Keep the effort even as previously said. To do this you must keep the cadence (leg turnover) the same. That means you'll be taking the same amount of steps per minute into the wind as with no wind or wind at back; and the overall effort of each stride is the same. The stride lenght will decrease to allow for this but you wont notice any difference in effort or rythm.

If you ease effort by reducing cadence (very common), you are taking a stronger effort each stride and will tire more quickly. Also youre hang time (time off ground) is longer allowing the wind resist your forward momentum with no counter resistance.

If you are running into a severe headwind you will be forced to work harder, but keeping short strong strides is the way to go. Hang time is more crucial here, and the wind will blow youre form away unless you are efficient and compact.

Racing: Running in someones slipstream is a huge advantage into a wind, even on a still day.

On a race with wind you need to know where the windy parts are going to be. If you cant get out on the course assess wind direction and work out whichs ections are exposed to the wind. Then you can plan to be in a group for those sections. For example if youre in a group and you feel like pushing on, knowing that a headwind for 2k is imminent will mean that you sit into that group for 2k. Also, if youre in a group that youre struggling to hold pace with and want to let go; knowing a headwind is approaching with subsequent pace drop means that it is very much in your interest to work to stay with that group.

I.e racing into a headwind, find shelter in a group.

Remember also that the advantage of a tailwind is somewhat negated by someone running directly behind you.

Training: pick a route that has shelter from wind on windy days: if running a loop pik a direction with more wind on back. Its almost always better to train running relatively faster than slower.

Thanks for the info T runner. I like the idea of shortening the stride length but maintaing cadence. This would be the same technique used when running up hill which makes sense as they are both sources of resistance.

Looking back I should have stayed with the pace group as I knew after the first mile that we would be into the head wind for the part of the course that caught me out. I just wasn't thinking. I suppose that will come with more experience.

I have been caught out on a LSR doing an out and back loop with the wind behind on the way out - it wasn't pretty for the last mile or two.

In future I will try have an idea of the course layout before the race so that the affect of the wind can be assessed during the run.

BeepBeep67

On a windy or hilly course, even effort is the way to and the realization that your overall all time will be greater. If you run 1 mile against a head wind you will run at +X% to your target pace, the fact that the time spent running this mile at +X% will be longer than the time spent running the mile with the wind at your back means you won't fully recover the time lost.

A0

Not much you can do, as you know overall performance will be affected anyway. However, you can minimise the time lost by staying behind someone and/or, as mentioned above, changing your stride length and frequency (practice it as it's a different running pattern).

Staying behind someone / a group when it's windy is beneficial as overcoming air resistance requires 3-9% of the total energy expenditure of running in calm air (so with someone in front of you, you don't have to worry about that!).
Running against strong wind (~65km/h) may lead to a 41% increase in energy expenditure to maintain running velocity. So again if you have someone in front of you it's likely that you'll save some energy.

Running behind someone can be done even when there's no wind but this is only beneficial at fairly fast running speeds (i.e., from about 19km/h).

Unfortunately, when running with tailwind, it's unlikely that you'll make up the time lost as the cost of running into headwind is significantly greater than the reduction with tailwind.

Better find a flat, fast race on a no wind day

Ososlo

T runner wrote: »

Technique: Keep the effort even as previously said. To do this you must keep the cadence (leg turnover) the same. That means you'll be taking the same amount of steps per minute into the wind as with no wind or wind at back; and the overall effort of each stride is the same. The stride lenght will decrease to allow for this but you wont notice any difference in effort or rythm.

If you ease effort by reducing cadence (very common), you are taking a stronger effort each stride and will tire more quickly. Also youre hang time (time off ground) is longer allowing the wind resist your forward momentum with no counter resistance.

If you are running into a severe headwind you will be forced to work harder, but keeping short strong strides is the way to go. Hang time is more crucial here, and the wind will blow youre form away unless you are efficient and compact.

Racing: Running in someones slipstream is a huge advantage into a wind, even on a still day.

On a race with wind you need to know where the windy parts are going to be. If you cant get out on the course assess wind direction and work out whichs ections are exposed to the wind. Then you can plan to be in a group for those sections. For example if youre in a group and you feel like pushing on, knowing that a headwind for 2k is imminent will mean that you sit into that group for 2k. Also, if youre in a group that youre struggling to hold pace with and want to let go; knowing a headwind is approaching with subsequent pace drop means that it is very much in your interest to work to stay with that group.

I.e racing into a headwind, find shelter in a group.

Remember also that the advantage of a tailwind is somewhat negated by someone running directly behind you.

Training: pick a route that has shelter from wind on windy days: if running a loop pik a direction with more wind on back. Its almost always better to train running relatively faster than slower.

Just re-quoting this great post by T runner:( for the windy week that's in it...

DubOnHoliday

Exactly what I needed two days ago great post indeed.

pconn062

Do people really need advice on how to run into a headwind? Most days in Ireland we have some sort of headwind. Racing into a headwind is different but for a training run?

Ososlo

pconn062 wrote: »

Do people really need advice on how to run into a headwind? Most days in Ireland we have some sort of headwind. Racing into a headwind is different but for a training run?

I find it very helpful.

DubOnHoliday

pconn062 wrote: »

Do people really need advice on how to run into a headwind? Most days in Ireland we have some sort of headwind. Racing into a headwind is different but for a training run?

Well it seems so. I was running with a group from work the other day, as soon as we turn into the strong westerly, two of the lads dropped off the pace. Both faster guys, just trying to maintain the pace into the wind was their undoing

pconn062

Fair enough so.

KielyUnusual

There was some good stuff on this in the Lore of Running book by Tim Noakes. Its a long time since I read it so you'll have to forgive me for paraphrasing.

Essentially there's a huge difference between the effort spent maintaining a pace running into the wind and the same effort when running with the same wind. Unfortunately, as we all probably know from personal experience there is a big discrepancy here. The losses made from running in to a head wind are far greater than the gains from running with the same wind.

There is evidence to show that drafting from someone is beneficial but unlike cycling, you really have to be up their arse to see this benefit. Less than a metre, I think. I'm guessing this is because the speeds in running are slower so the wind tunnel is reduced.

If somebody has a copy of the book, I'd appreciate you posting some of the findings from the studies. It was interesting reading.

Ososlo

KielyUnusual wrote: »

If somebody has a copy of the book, I'd appreciate you posting some of the findings from the studies. It was interesting reading.

I'll do it for you later if no one does in the meantime.

Chivito550

For a 400m race, even though no wind is measured (because in theory, you gain on the home straight what you lost on the back straight, or visa versa), the reality is that if the wind is greater than 2m/s, conditions are not very favourable for fast running, as you always lose more into the wind, than you gain with the wind, as has been already mentioned above. That's why I hate to see strong gusty winds on race day.

KielyUnusual

Ososlo wrote: »

I'll do it for you later if no one does in the meantime.

Yea, that would be great.

I read it in the library in my heady unemployed days so never had a copy myself.

clear thinking

Great post from t runner. Shorter strides and ducking behind others is what i do too.

drag squares as speed doubles so runners going into a wind like last night, easily 50kph, would have had close to 4 times the usual drag. In context a typical cyclist would have only had roughly double the drag in the same breeze.

pretty sure i saw a research paper showing ducking behind others saves 10% effort on a still day!!

kit3

clear thinking wrote: »

Great post from t runner. Shorter strides and ducking behind others is what i do too.

drag squares as speed doubles so runners going into a wind like last night, easily 50kph, would have had close to 4 times the usual drag. In context a typical cyclist would have only had roughly double the drag in the same breeze.

pretty sure i saw a research paper showing ducking behind others saves 10% effort on a still day!!

That's interesting - it feels the opposite to me. I would so much rather be running into the wind than cycling. Don't really think too much when running - just put the head down & get there - but I absolutely hate cycling into the wind.