Ireland may join EU mission to help fight Somali pirates

RobitTV

IRELAND may join the fight against Somali pirates off the coast of Africa as part of an EU naval mission.

Dozens of the world's navies and air forces are trying to combat the scourge of pirate attacks in the Indian Ocean.

Ireland has been asked by the EU naval mission in the area, EU NAVFOR's Operation Atalanta, to join the struggle against the pirates. The sea raiders operate successfully using skiffs or small boats and mother ships, and are armed with Kalashnikov rifles and rocket-propelled grenades.

The operational commander of the EU's first maritime mission has invited Ireland to contribute an armed detachment which would be used to protect ships.

Ireland at present does not have any ships or personnel attached to the mission but the unit, called an autonomous vessel protection detachment, (AVPD), would be used to protect vessels such as food aid ships from the World Food Programme without a naval escort.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ireland-may-join-eu-mission-to-help-fight-somali-pirates-3053885.html

I Say the navy should send Le eithne only becasue of its helicopter capability -

KickstartHeart

I don't know if the government will agree to it. Not that they wouldn't want to, just that Ireland has the largest sea area to patrol in the whole EU. Our Navy, as professional and well equipped for the job as they are, and under serious pressure at the moment. In simple terms, they haven't a ship to spare because of how much patrolling they have to do here.

It would be great experience for the Navy to take part in this mission though. Absolutely invaluable. Might also give them a bit of credibility too in the public's eyes. As per usual when times are hard and the Irish people don't know what an organization does or don't understand its role,they just think it should be cut, or that it is just a waste of money. If the Irish Navy took part in this mission people might open their eyes a bit more to the capabilities of our Navy. The Irish Navy would be more than capable and professional enough for this mission. But they're under strain at the moment. I hope they get involved, for the sake of experience, but I don't know if the government will want to get them involved right now.

EDIT, I read it again. Someone actually in the PDF will be able to clear this up for me. It said an Autonomous Vessel Protection Detachment. Does that mean a detachment of Naval personnel, or does it mean an actual ship?

xflyer

They're not looking for a ship but armed personnel to be deployed on Merchant ships while cruising near Somalia.

Now that would be feasible and indeed popular, I imagine, among naval personnel. A bit of active service.

Realistically the Naval Service could not spare a ship anyway.

I wonder though if there would be issues with deploying manpower away from the Navy. Are things tight at the moment?

balkanhawk

xflyer wrote: »

They're not looking for a ship but armed personnel to be deployed on Merchant ships while cruising near Somalia.

Now that would be feasible and indeed popular, I imagine, among naval personnel. A bit of active service.

Realistically the Naval Service could not spare a ship anyway.

I wonder though if there would be issues with deploying manpower away from the Navy. Are things tight at the moment?

It would not necessarily have to be naval service personnel who are deployed. These groups sound like close protection teams so a properly trained army personnel could also fill the requirement.

Usually when these requests have been made public you can be sure that the back room negotiation has taken place and permission will more than likely be given.

gman2k

To err is to be human,

To arr is to be pirate.






(I'll get me coat)

ex_infantry man

L.E. Eithne might have a helipad on deck but as far as i know is'nt equipped anymore to carry out heliops roles and it was dauphin class helicoptors that were used on board her and we don't have them either so pretty much makes it useless in heliops roles

OS119

ex_infantry man wrote: »

L.E. Eithne might have a helipad on deck but as far as i know is'nt equipped anymore to carry out heliops roles and it was dauphin class helicoptors that were used on board her and we don't have them either so pretty much makes it useless in heliops roles

while that may be true, she does have a heli-deck that other peoples helicopters can use, she is armed, she does have boarding RIB's, she does have surface search radar, and she does have crew practiced in the art (suicide attempt?) of getting out of one ship and into another, in heavy seas, when the receiving ships crew aren't happy to see them.

she doesn't have the ISR and aviation capabilities to operate on her own as a 'pirate-killer', but she could certainly do a job as an escort vessel as part of a convoy.

it would be a excellent learning tool, and it would do good in the world.

balkanhawk

Why not send a casa down too?!!

The government may consider sending some troops down in a close protection role but there is no way they will deploy a ship or aircraft to the area. No money.........

OS119

balkanhawk wrote: »

...The government may consider sending some troops down in a close protection role but there is no way they will deploy a ship or aircraft to the area. No money.........

there are costs involved in supporting a mechanical asset a long way from its operating base - the monthly C-130 full of spares - and the long-term costs of your other assets having to work harder in order to cover the gap made by an asset being detached, but they aren't much in real, government terms, particularly if we're talking about, for instance, a single ship deployment of 3 months or so.

the operating costs would be the same however whether in the Indian Ocean or in Bantry Bay - same amount of fuel being used, same amount of crew hours used - air conditioning unit might have to work a bit harder, but the cost of operating the ship itself would be the same.

and would you really have any new crew costs for this duty? - i don't know if you've been to Dijabouti, but there's fcuk all there to spend your money on...

Tabnabs

OS119 wrote: »

while that may be true, she does have a heli-deck that other peoples helicopters can use,

It's my understanding that the "heli-deck" is no longer fit for purpose and cannot conduct any on-deck heli-ops?

OS119

Tabnabs wrote: »

It's my understanding that the "heli-deck" is no longer fit for purpose and cannot conduct any on-deck heli-ops?

depends what you mean by 'heli ops'!

can she support a helicopter with fuel, maintainence, re-arming and housing? no she certainly can't.

however, can she provide HIFR, can she provide a boarding party, can she provide a GBFO gun to intimidate pirates/insurgents into not firing at helicopters trying to board their vessels? yes, she can.

many people, and among them the military, fall into the trap of reading the specs and saying 'right, this asset can do this and can't do that' - and yet forget that ships, and other assets, are just metal, piping and wiring. in March 1982 none of the RAF's Nimrods were capable of inflight refueling or carrying AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles - a month later, half of them were. in March 1982 the cruise ship Canberra carried 1700 old dears around the MED, in May 1982 she arrived in the Falklands with 3000 troops, two helicopter decks, countless GPMG's on her rails and a Blowpipe SAM detachment.

Eithne needs her avgas tanks flushed, a couple of GPMG/.50's welded to her rails, the worlds supply of food and sun cream stuffed in her holds, an infantry section to augment the firepower/boarding capability of her crew, and she'd be perfectly capable of doing the job.

if the Argentine Navy can fire an Exocet missile off the back of a truck and score a hit on a modern, switched on warship thats looking for trouble, the Irish Navy can ready Eithne for pirate killing in a weekend.

kippy

We have nowhere near the resources to police our own oceans against very real threats. I don't know why we'd want to send some of these resources abroad, especially from a naval perspective.

ex_infantry man

OS119 wrote: »

depends what you mean by 'heli ops'!

can she support a helicopter with fuel, maintainence, re-arming and housing? no she certainly can't.

however, can she provide HIFR, can she provide a boarding party, can she provide a GBFO gun to intimidate pirates/insurgents into not firing at helicopters trying to board their vessels? yes, she can.

many people, and among them the military, fall into the trap of reading the specs and saying 'right, this asset can do this and can't do that' - and yet forget that ships, and other assets, are just metal, piping and wiring. in March 1982 none of the RAF's Nimrods were capable of inflight refueling or carrying AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles - a month later, half of them were. in March 1982 the cruise ship Canberra carried 1700 old dears around the MED, in May 1982 she arrived in the Falklands with 3000 troops, two helicopter decks, countless GPMG's on her rails and a Blowpipe SAM detachment.

Eithne needs her avgas tanks flushed, a couple of GPMG/.50's welded to her rails, the worlds supply of food and sun cream stuffed in her holds, an infantry section to augment the firepower/boarding capability of her crew, and she'd be perfectly capable of doing the job.

if the Argentine Navy can fire an Exocet missile off the back of a truck and score a hit on a modern, switched on warship thats looking for trouble, the Irish Navy can ready Eithne for pirate killing in a weekend.

your talking pure and utter bullcrap.!!!!! have you ever been aboard eithne????

OS119

ex_infantry man wrote: »

... have you ever been aboard eithne????

yes.

its big, grey, its got engines and a big gun by the pointy bit at one end.

the problem?

ex_infantry man

OS119 wrote: »

yes.

its big, grey, its got engines and a big gun by the pointy bit at one end.

the problem?

i served aboard her twice as a member of the then "slua muiri" (NSR now) it was refitted with restraints for containers for the liberia deployment and i'm sure to this day are still in place?? it well never and i mean EVER have a helicoptor land or take off from her, as there needs to be an air corps crew attached to it for air traffic control and other operations that it takes to operate aircraft from a vessel, the aircraft that is suitable for eithne (dauphin) aint flown by the air corps no more!!! and i'm pretty sure the naval service don't practice trying to land aircraft on her either so the expertise just aint there for it!!!!

OS119

ex_infantry man wrote: »

... it well never and i mean EVER have a helicoptor land or take off from her, as there needs to be an air corps crew attached to it for air traffic control and other operations that it takes to operate aircraft from a vessel, the aircraft that is suitable for eithne (dauphin) aint flown by the air corps no more!!! and i'm pretty sure the naval service don't practice trying to land aircraft on her either so the expertise just aint there for it!!!!

INS crewmen have refueled and controlled RAF/RN SAR helicopters waaay out in the north atlantic on HIFR jobs, if they can do it there, they can do it for Lynx/Merlin/Seahawk in the Indian Ocean.

the Irish NS must be deeply sh1t of not one member if Eithnes crew can operate an Oxy-Acetaline torch, or welding kit, or use the most basic fueling kit, or aircraft signalling wands. one hopes, for the sake of Ireland, that you are not representative of the skills and qualities of its members.

balkanhawk

OS119 wrote: »

INS crewmen have refueled and controlled RAF/RN SAR helicopters waaay out in the north atlantic on HIFR jobs, if they can do it there, they can do it for Lynx/Merlin/Seahawk in the Indian Ocean.

the Irish NS must be deeply sh1t of not one member if Eithnes crew can operate an Oxy-Acetaline torch, or welding kit, or use the most basic fueling kit, or aircraft signalling wands. one hopes, for the sake of Ireland, that you are not representative of the skills and qualities of its members.

Sure while we're at it we may as well weld some maverick missiles to the wings of a casa and go pirate hunting!!

I dont quite think this pirate mission has quite the same urgency as the Falklands war but I appreciate the dramatisation of the scenario. Helicopter ops from a ship would require extensive training by the crew. It is a skill that was never maintained (to my knowledge) and the equipment onboard was either pulled or does not meet current specs.

Do the naval service currently do HIFR? I certainly have never heard of it happening. That would require them to carry JETA1 which according to you they dont as they would need to flush the tanks.

If a pirate fleet decided to approach Bantry im sure they would break out the welding torches then and give you a ring :cool:

MaxSteele

Quarantine that anarchic, backward, hellhole already and let nature take its course. You know survival of the fittest and all that. Barbed wire, a few dozen HMS destroyers and border patrol guards. Lost money spent on a lost cause. Let's be done with Somalia already and never speak of it again.

ex_infantry man

OS119 wrote: »

INS crewmen have refueled and controlled RAF/RN SAR helicopters waaay out in the north atlantic on HIFR jobs, if they can do it there, they can do it for Lynx/Merlin/Seahawk in the Indian Ocean.

the Irish NS must be deeply sh1t of not one member if Eithnes crew can operate an Oxy-Acetaline torch, or welding kit, or use the most basic fueling kit, or aircraft signalling wands. one hopes, for the sake of Ireland, that you are not representative of the skills and qualities of its members.

when was it that they did HIFR jobs in the north atlantic??? i'm starting to wonder are you imagining all this?????

mikeym

From what ive seen on documentaries other EU navies who operate on the Gulf of Aden do their refueling at sea.

Im not sure if Irish Naval Service Vessels have ever refueled at sea.

goldie fish

ex_infantry man wrote: »

i served aboard her twice as a member of the then "slua muiri" (NSR now) it was refitted with restraints for containers for the liberia deployment and i'm sure to this day are still in place?? it well never and i mean EVER have a helicoptor land or take off from her, as there needs to be an air corps crew attached to it for air traffic control and other operations that it takes to operate aircraft from a vessel, the aircraft that is suitable for eithne (dauphin) aint flown by the air corps no more!!! and i'm pretty sure the naval service don't practice trying to land aircraft on her either so the expertise just aint there for it!!!!

I hope you got a medal for your service. Because the bull**** you are spouting here as a member of the NSR does the Naval Service a huge disservice. During your service aboard, which was probably spent hiding in your bunk in case the proper navy dunked you overboard, you must have missed the big steel plate in the centre of the Helideck, which is bolted to the honeycomb. This plate is in place so people like yourself don't lose their keys in it. Its purpose was, and is, to accept the harpoon of any suitably equipped 5 tonne naval heli, such as Lynx, Dauphin, A109 or any similar type currently in use. The only things the Air Corpse detachment aboard eithne had to do(when their sea legs permitted) was 4 of them fly the heli(2 pilots & 2 in the back) and the remainder carried out daily maintenance on the aircraft, when they remained, including folding it up to fit into the Hangar. All the handling, vectoring, comms was done by NS people. Unfortunately the First(and last) FDO retired about 10 years ago. The DA05 is still there though, and functioning. It was upgraded some years ago, in time for GWBs visit.
The Tie down points for Deck cargo has no impact whatsoever on whether or not a heli can land on the deck. The only issue is whether the siderails can still fold out. VERTREP is still possible. The Problem with the AVTUR tanks is their location, which is prone to condensation, causing fuel contamination. However, if needs must, it would be just as easy to have an AVTUR TEU in the hangar, for use when needed.