Shooting deer for a farmer?

Chiparus

I already shoot on a Coillte lease, but a local farmer has asked me to cull some deer on his land.
What are the requirements? ie hoops i need to jump through, and are the seasons the same ?

PippaSpaniel

When does the landowner want the deer shot? If it is now the landowner will have to apply for a section 42 from n.p.w.s and fill it out saying what damage is been done i.e crop damage,fence damage etc. Its may state if the landowner gets the section 42 what is to be shot i.e stags or hinds all depends on time of year.

garv123

Chiparus wrote: »

I already shoot on a Coillte lease, but a local farmer has asked me to cull some deer on his land.
What are the requirements? ie hoops i need to jump through, and are the seasons the same ?

As pippaspaniel said the same seasons apply as a lease and the farmer can apply for a section 42 and nominate you as the stalker.
Someone will come out and check the numbers and inspect the damage too before granting him a section 42.

Chiparus

Do you apply to npws or to the department of agriculture?

garv123

Chiparus wrote: »

Do you apply to npws or to the department of agriculture?

NPWS
Forms available to download there too.
http://www.npws.ie/licences/disturbance/tostopdamagetofloraandfaunabywildanimals/

Fallow01

Chiparus like you I often have farmers asking me to shoot deer out of season but I rarely do unless there is "genuine" crop damage, I say "genuine" cause a lot of the time there is not a problem and the farmer has just seen deer on his land and wants them gone. If there is not damage I normally fire a shot over their heads or fire with a shot gun at a safe distance, if you do this once or twice they won't be seen again.

We have a 6 month season which is more than enough time to cull them and especially with the season just gone they got a real hammering in most areas from poachers and hunters with more time on their hands than ever. If you are left with no choice and have to apply for a section 42, shooting females is not a good idea in my experience as they are either very heavily pregnant now or in late May/June they will have a calf/fawn hidden which will starve to death cause the mother has been shot - not what genuine deer stalkers want to do.

I hear the game dealers have stopped buying deer shot out of season, because they are worried about the low numbers, so be prepared to eat what you shoot.

daithi55

Fallow01 wrote: »

Chiparus like you I often have farmers asking me to shoot deer out of season but I rarely do unless there is "genuine" crop damage, I say "genuine" cause a lot of the time there is not a problem and the farmer has just seen deer on his land and wants them gone. If there is not damage I normally fire a shot over their heads or fire with a shot gun at a safe distance, if you do this once or twice they won't be seen again.

We have a 6 month season which is more than enough time to cull them and especially with the season just gone they got a real hammering in most areas from poachers and hunters with more time on their hands than ever. If you are left with no choice and have to apply for a section 42, shooting females is not a good idea in my experience as they are either very heavily pregnant now or in late May/June they will have a calf/fawn hidden which will starve to death cause the mother has been shot - not what genuine deer stalkers want to do.

I hear the game dealers have stopped buying deer shot out of season, because they are worried about the low numbers, so be prepared to eat what you shoot.

the only person that can say theres genuine crop damage done is a wild life ranger that inspects the damage before a section 42 is issued
what you have just wrote sounds like your shooting them without a section 42 once there is crop damage done and you see a genuine reason to cull them at your own discretion

also firing a shot in the general direction of deer
or at them is what the wildlife ranger will interpret
will get you into a lot of trouble

Fallow01

I am not suggesting you ever shoot or at deer out of season without a section 42. But as you will know the section 42 is requested by the farmer not the hunter and what I am describing is if you find yourself as a nominated stalker on a section 42, where there isn't really a problem and you want to keep the landowner happy. I have had rangers agree with the frighten off approach rather than shoot them every time, cause remember deer will be attracted to a particular farm at certain times i.e. after fertilizer has been spread or there is major disturbance else where, so the problem can be temporary.

In my experience if a section 42 has been granted previously, no inspection of crop damage takes place on that land on the new section 42 application. If you do the proper research such as trail cameras etc it will tell you if their is genuine crop damage.

Sadly I have seen more and more people abuse Section 42's for financial gain or to extend their season by canvassing farmers, rather than the reasons they are meant for.

Spunk84

Lads what's the story if you come across a deer who is stuck in barb wire or is suffering from an injury ? Can you shoot at anytime or do you have wait for a NPW lad to come see it first ? Also what happens if you have a lower caliber than the legal one ?

Cass

AFAIK you must call a ranger and they will attend themselves or sometimes they have a "nominated person" they use if the ranger is unavailable to go out to such locations and put the animal down.

A few years ago a friend of the cousins hit a deer. He had his rifle (deer legal), and put the deer down. He then called the ranger, and a s**t storm began. In the end it came to nothing, but he was tormented for months about shooting a deer out of season, etc.

Moral of the story even if the animal is suffering, cruel as it may sound, you are better off going through the proper channels to save yourself a load of grief. You know what they say about best intentions.

garv123

Spunk84 wrote: »

Lads what's the story if you come across a deer who is stuck in barb wire or is suffering from an injury ? Can you shoot at anytime or do you have wait for a NPW lad to come see it first ? Also what happens if you have a lower caliber than the legal one ?

I was watching one of field sport britains new episodes last week or the week before and one of the lads out stalking for doe's spotted a limping stag and shot him on camera. Said its best to put him out of his misery.
Thats the UK though.
Most people wont sit and wait watching an animal suffering waiting for a ranger to come out though

I also know of lads who shot wounded deer on the side of the road after they were hit by cars. They were helped into the field first though and were in season.

Spunk84

Ezridax wrote: »

AFAIK you must call a ranger and they will attend themselves or sometimes they have a "nominated person" they use if the ranger is unavailable to go out to such locations and put the animal down.

A few years ago a friend of the cousins hit a deer. He had his rifle (deer legal), and put the deer down. He then called the ranger, and a s**t storm began. In the end it came to nothing, but he was tormented for months about shooting a deer out of season, etc.

Moral of the story even if the animal is suffering, cruel as it may sound, you are better off going through the proper channels to save yourself a load of grief. You know what they say about best intentions.

Wow now that's sad ! You would think that if an animal was suffering you could do it but then do u really want the grieve after wards.

kildare.17hmr

When i was about 12 the oul lad hit a deer with the car, 4 broken legs the thing was in bits. He got a knife from the car and cut its throath and into the boot it went.

ssl

I'd call a Ranger and/or a Garda. But if the animal was in a very bad way and there was no sign of them coming I go ahead with it

323

Ezridax wrote: »

AFAIK you must call a ranger and they will attend themselves or sometimes they have a "nominated person" they use if the ranger is unavailable to go out to such locations and put the animal down.

A few years ago a friend of the cousins hit a deer. He had his rifle (deer legal), and put the deer down. He then called the ranger, and a s**t storm began. In the end it came to nothing, but he was tormented for months about shooting a deer out of season, etc.

Moral of the story even if the animal is suffering, cruel as it may sound, you are better off going through the proper channels to save yourself a load of grief. You know what they say about best intentions.

Ridicules, isn't it?

Could have been worse for him though, involved in some discussions over this sort of issue a few years ago, Council/Garda/NPW etc.
Lot of very grey areas, i.e. just by reporting it could actually have been charged by the council for cost of removing and disposing of the carcass, amazing but no joke as can mean a bill of many thousands.

Gave away HCAP manual but pretty sure the law states any firearm can be used to dispatch a suffering animal regardless of season.

kildare.17hmr

323 wrote: »

Gave away HCAP manual but pretty sure the law states any firearm can be used to dispatch a suffering animal regardless of season.

that makes sense

Grizzly 45

Giving away the HCAP manual or being able to use any firearm for dispatch??:p
TBH..Use common sense senseibly in these matters!:)

Birdnuts

323 wrote: »

Gave away HCAP manual but pretty sure the law states any firearm can be used to dispatch a suffering animal regardless of season.

That is probably the case for species with a season like deer - for fully protected species like dolphins, swans etc. I beleive its compulsory to report injured individuals before action is taken. I say that based on an experiece I had a few years back when I came across a beached dolphin on the shore just below my landholding in North Mayo. The poor divil was clearly in distress and gasping for air. Me and a few neighbours did our best to get him into deeper water but he beached again on the next tide and was in an even worse state with foam coming out his mouth and blowwhole. At that stage the situation was clearly hopeless so having rang the NPWS already and had the lady ranger down to see the situation herself(she informed us that this was indeed a notifiable situation), she gave me the all clear to put the creature down with an old .28 remmie deer rifle.

fallowbuck

Imo, I think the most humane thing to do is put the animal to sleep, Sometimes the law is far from right, you can buy a shotgun at sixteen but not a box of fags, Just do the moral thing. But its a matter of choice.

Fallow01

Spunk84 wrote: »

Lads what's the story if you come across a deer who is stuck in barb wire or is suffering from an injury ? Can you shoot at anytime or do you have wait for a NPW lad to come see it first ? Also what happens if you have a lower caliber than the legal one ?

The law says you can dispatch it yourself but you must inform a NPWS Ranger afterwards, here's the bit in the Wildlife Acts, I can't see the piece on the NPWS ranger but the HCAP manual does.

(7) Notwithstanding subsection (5) of this section, it shall not be an offence for a person—

(a) while engaged in agriculture, fishing or forestry, or in zoology or in any other scientific pursuit, unintentionally to injure or kill a protected wild animal, or

(b) while so engaged to interfere with or destroy the breeding place of such an animal, or

(c) while constructing a road or while carrying on any archaeological operation, building operation or work of engineering construction, or while constructing or carrying on such other operation or work as may be prescribed, to kill or injure such an animal or to destroy or injure the breeding place of such an animal, or

(d) to capture an injured or disabled protected wild animal for the purpose of killing it humanely or with the intention of tending it and of later releasing it, or

(e) to kill humanely a protected wild animal which is either injured in the manner described in paragraph (a) of this subsection or captured in the manner described in paragraph (d) of this subsection, or so to kill a protected wild animal injured in the circumstances described in paragraph (c) of this subsection,

clivej

I also read somewhere that any caliber can be used to dispatch a Deer, save an air powered firearm.

German pointer

It is good to know we can do that with out getting into grief with the Dept. I don't think I could let one suffer until NPWS Ranger got to site.