Post Accident Query

Wishbone Ash

Hi all,

I had my first real accident today. I wanted to go for a long spin and, as my wife was doing some business 'down the country', I travelled with her with the intention of cycling back to Dublin. While passing through a large provincial town with stationary traffic a car passenger door flew open suddenly. Needless to say it wasn't pleasant.

I'd like to thank those who came to my assistance on the street although the passenger didn't seem particularly interested in me once he saw that I was still breathing and headed off. I exchanged details with the driver who seems like a decent man and was concerned for my condition. We agreed to report the matter at the local Garda Station. I then attended the local A & E, X-rays etc. Nothing seems broken but the doctor said I'll be very sore for a while. My shoulder struck the edge of the door. My lower back is also painful and I skinned my right leg and elbow.

My front wheel is buckled and the forks seem damaged. The handle bars and front brakes are also misaligned.

I have a couple of queries:

1. The Gardai seemed overly officious and harsh with the driver. After all he didn't do it but they quoted various RT Acts to him, subsection this/that etc. I tried to make it clear that I was doing it as a formality and wasn't seeking to apportion blame. Does reporting an accident imply that one is seeking compensation?

2. I'm relatively easy going and would never try to pull a fast one but I think this man is frightened by the whole thing. I'd be interested in getting my bike repaired but I wouldn't bother chasing anyone for it. As someone said here recently "Leave the big stuff for the big stuff".

3. I received a call from another Garda this evening saying that the passenger is at fault. Why would he say that? I exchanged details with the driver as this is normal practise in RTAs.

4. The Gardai want me to return to the station to make an official statement. Why would they want this since I did not indicate that I was pressing charges nor did I apportion blame to any party.

They seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill (unless they know something I don't). I've reported accidents before and they just took a few details.

Thanks for your help/comments.

WA

Eamonnator

1) No, but All accidents involving personal injury have to be reported to the Gardai.

2) If the passenger is found to be at fault, you are entitled to be compensated.
The driver's insurance should cover all your damages, whether to you or your bike.

3) don't know. All accidents, involving injuries, are reported, by the investigating Garda, to the local Superintendant. He then makes a decision, on whether or not a prosecution is started. It is not up to the garda to apportion blame. If no prosecution is instigated, the matter is left to "Civil remedy", in other words, left to the two parties to sort out among themselves.

4)As in 3, the accident, once reported, has to be investigated. To do this the Garda will need to take statements from all concerned. It is not up to you "to press charges". The Gardai make this decision. You would simply be a witness in any prosecution.

Dermot Illogical

Sorry to hear about your spill, sounds very unpleasant!
Accidents involving personal injury must be reported, and gardai are obliged to investigate them fully. Of course it's up to you if you want to make a statement or not, but they have to follow up as best they can anyway.
As to why they're being so serious, who knows? Possibly previous cases they've dealt with, personal experience etc. Or maybe the fact that the person who did the damage left the scene. Could be any of a number of things. Also, bear in mind that there are things which they have to say, quoting legislation usually, which sound quite serious but are actually just standard fare for any accident. "I must warn you that the question of prosecuting you under Section 51a, 52 etc etc etc" is just a standard warning given in all cases whether it's needed or not.
Hopefully you'll get sorted out without too much hassle.

Wishbone Ash

Thanks Eamonnator.

Eamonnator wrote: »

1)All accidents involving personal injury have to be reported to the Gardai

That makes sense alright. Previous accidents I reported (motor related) involved material damage only.

The driver's insurance should cover all your damages, whether to you or your bike

That's what I thought and hence got his details.

It is not up to you "to press charges". The Gardai make this decision

I'm pretty sure the Garda asked me if I was pressing charges as I thought it was an awkward question in the presence of the driver.

Wishbone Ash

Thanks RT66

RT66 wrote: »

Or maybe the fact that the person who did the damage left the scene

They driver provided the passenger's name and contact details.

Another thing I'm concerned about - I know it's done all the time by cyclists but was I breaking the law by cycling alongside stationary traffic?

Mycroft H

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Thanks Eamonnator.

That makes sense alright. Previous accidents I reported (motor related) involved material damage only.


That's what I thought and hence got his details.

I'm pretty sure the Garda asked me if I was pressing charges as I thought it was an awkward question in the presence of the driver.

A Garda statement that upholds the blame with the car passenger will be very very handy should the time come that the driver no longer wants to deal with you. The insurance company will have to listen to you then should you have any problem.

I was in a car accident a few years ago where I broke my arm and I do remember the Guards doing the very same and looking for official statements after words. Its a formality and its there for a very good reason where personal injury is involved.

I should add that I hope you recover from your injuries quickly, geting doored is not a nice experience.

woody_2000

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

4. The Gardai want me to return to the station to make an official statement. Why would they want this since I did not indicate that I was pressing charges nor did I apportion blame to any party.

Maybe because you may also be considered a state witness to a potential/identified/prosecutable road traffic offence. Bringing the matter to the Gardai's attention may also have brought the matter into the domain/jurisdiction of the state as a potential prosecutable state offence. In this regard, the Gardai may have no option but to follow up on it if such a matter comes to their attention. If there are ground to bring the matter further, they may have no choice but to do so. It could be possible that this matter may also be considered totally separate from your own civil personal injury situation. That's just my guess anyway.

deandean

Sorry to hear of your accident Wishbone Ash. Sounds like car driver is ultimately responsible.

Assuming that both you and the driver are reasonable people, I suggest you put together a reasonable bill for the damage & send it to the driver, hope to get a payment from him in full and final settlement.

Beasty

deandean wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your accident Wishbone Ash. Sounds like car driver is ultimately responsible.

Assuming that both you and the driver are reasonable people, I suggest you put together a reasonable bill for the damage & send it to the driver, hope to get a payment from him in full and final settlement.

No, it sounds like the passenger was initially responsible. Ultimate responsibility probably lies with the driver's insurance company.

Hope you're OK Wishbone Ash, and get everything sorted out with minimum hassle

galwaycyclist

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Another thing I'm concerned about - I know it's done all the time by cyclists but was I breaking the law by cycling alongside stationary traffic?

Not as long as you were passing on the right hand side. If you were passing on the left then probably yes but the passenger likely still had a duty of care before opening the door.

rollingscone

A driver is legally responsible for the actions of his passengers per the rules of the road.

If there was a broken white line and you were on the right you were simply filtering (overtaking a number of stationary vehicles).

On the left you could argue you were giving way per the rules of the road.

Even if this was disputed nothing would obviate the passenger/driver obligation under law to ensure it was safe to open the door.

Also watch the pain levels. It takes around 72hrs for your adrenaline levels to drop to normal.

You may be slightly anaesthesised until then.

Wishbone Ash

galwaycyclist wrote: »

If you were passing on the left then probably yes

Unfortunately I was passing on the left. In saying that though there was adequate space as I was moving along nicely. The same thing could have happened while travelling along a cycle lane beside stopped traffic.

rollingscone wrote: »

Also watch the pain levels. It takes around 72hrs for your adrenaline levels to drop to normal

:eek: :eek: :eek:

monument

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Another thing I'm concerned about - I know it's done all the time by cyclists but was I breaking the law by cycling alongside stationary traffic?

Not as long as you were passing on the right hand side. If you were passing on the left then probably yes but the passenger likely still had a duty of care before opening the door.

Disagree, strongly.

When the Dail / minister passed such they were most likely not intending for the sideaffect of it on cyclists, and the government has said as much and it intents to addust the law.

Our laws are not just what is written down.

Eamonnator

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Thanks RT66

They driver provided the passenger's name and contact details.

Another thing I'm concerned about - I know it's done all the time by cyclists but was I breaking the law by cycling alongside stationary traffic?

This was well covered in a thread last year. I can't find it.
the gist of it was, that you're in the right.

galwaycyclist

monument wrote: »

Disagree, strongly.

When the Dail / minister passed such they were most likely not intending for the sideaffect of it on cyclists, and the government has said as much and it intents to addust the law.

Our laws are not just what is written down.

Neverthless I am aware of incidents where a cyclist came into conflict with a motorist while passing on the left and the Garda took the view that it was their fault for passing on the wrong side.

And yes the previous minister had stated his intent to change this law, by that fact acknowledging that passing on the left by cyclists is not provided for in the Irish regulations. This is a matter of public record.

When I sought a legal opinion on this I was given to understand that a cyclist could point at this intent as defence in such cases.

Edit: Actually I just reread it and the opinion I have does not say anything about us having such a defence it just points out the law and the previous ministers stated intent to change it.

However the current Ministerial team does not appear anything like as sympathetic to cycling as their predecessors so I would not count on any laws being changed in our favour - indeed there is good reason to fear the opposite.