Mandatory Minimum Prison Sentencing

Hey all,

Not the biggest political person in the world. I know a few bits and bobs and I'd be somewhat clued into the political sitcom we call the Dail, but not overly involved or intelligent to the inner workings of it all.

But... I was wondering; how would a person go about trying to get the ball rolling on altering the legislation/judicial system in the country to introduce mandatory minimum prison sentencing?

Do you just get on to your local TDs and keep pestering them or what do you actually need to do to get it in motion?


Cheers

eth0

Mandatory minimum sentences are a load of bollix.

Real life isn't black and white enough for such a thing to work, there are always unusual cases that deserve shorter sentences and its a bad idea to take that discretion away from the judge.

Shoite you read in the daily fail about someone 'only' getting 2 years for a murder leave out a lot of detail and the articles are designed to stir up outrage. if you knew the full story a lot of the time you'd understand why the short sentence was given.

There was a case in the states where some young lad got a mandatory life sentence for killing his ma, turned out he was getting abused all his life by her, then one day he lost the head and killed her. Judge could do nothing other than put him in jail for life

eth0, in Drogheda a while ago a scumbag attacked and stabbed 7 people. He was given a suspended sentence.

I personally know someone (unfortunately) who fought with two Gardaí and bit one of them on the arm. Suspended sentence.

Just recently a taxi driver was repeatedly stabbed in the neck and head for no reason. People were caught but not charged yet (publicly), i'd guess they'll receive a suspended sentence.


Minimum sentence doesn't have to be life in prison (I'd love to know if anyone has ever served a full life sentence in an Irish prison) but it should be a deterrent. There is no reason to fear the law in this country. The judicial system is broken and needs fixing. I believe this could be a first step in the right direction.

Zaph

I know a guy in the States whose 23 year old nephew became addicted to prescription painkillers after an accident. He had two previous convictions for possession when he was arrested after trying to use a forged prescription to obtain more painkillers. As Florida has a third strike law, he's now serving 25 years with no chance of parole in a maximum security prison. Hardly a proportionate response to his crime. As eth0 mentioned, life isn't always black and white and I agree that sentences should be appropriate. But making one rule for all without taking into account individual circumstances inevitably results in some people being treated unfairly.

Doc Ruby

Another question is how effective is prison as a) a deterrent and b) in preventing repeat offences. Clearly its not that great a deterrent and there's something like a 70% repeat offence rate last time I checked.

Maybe we need to look beyond prison to something more constructive.

My name is URL

The problem doesn't stem from a broken system of sentencing.. it stems from a broken and ill-equipped prison service.

People will say they'd like to see harsher/longer sentences being handed out but at the same time don't want their tax dollars to be spent on allowing that to be the case.

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

The problem doesn't stem from a broken system of sentencing.. it stems from a broken and ill-equipped prison service.

People will say they'd like to see harsher/longer sentences being handed out but at the same time don't want their tax dollars to be spent on allowing that to be the case.

But why does so much money have to be spent on prison? The biggest expense in a prison should be the officer's wages. Prison life in Ireland doesn't exactly seem very tough. No one fears it.

If more people were forced into prison there'd be more people to a cell, making the living conditions a little rougher. We could make some money to cover the costs of housing the new prisoners by selling anything worth any money that's in the prison.

Born to Die

My name is URL wrote: »

The problem doesn't stem from a broken system of sentencing.. it stems from a broken and ill-equipped prison service.

People will say they'd like to see harsher/longer sentences being handed out but at the same time don't want their tax dollars to be spent on allowing that to be the case.

Are you in one of the countries that have dollars as the currency?

Ellis Dee

I'm against mandatory prison sentencing.:D

Well, except for bankers.;);)

And Bertie.:)

And ---

My name is URL

Deleted User wrote: »

But why does so much money have to be spent on prison? The biggest expense in a prison should be the officer's wages. Prison life in Ireland doesn't exactly seem very tough. No one fears it.

If more people were forced into prison there'd be more people to a cell, making the living conditions a little rougher. We could make some money to cover the costs of housing the new prisoners by selling anything worth any money that's in the prison.

The UN already take a dim view of our prison service.

Tbh, your ideas are just ranty and kneejerky. It might seem like a great idea to do the things you state above, but Ireland would be in breach of many International Laws then, and quite possibly alienated because of it.

woodoo

I think we need a complete clear out of the people deciding on sentencing in this country. I don't know if its the law society or who but it is so damn lenient. Give judges more power to hand out tough sentences. Sack judges who are too soft.

Murder should be nearer 40 years not 17 or 12 as it can end up.

44leto

No I would not support mandatory prison sentences, there are different circumstances to each crime.

But us the public also have to be protected from out of touch judges living in some ivory cuckoo land. Hence the mandatory sentences.

Take Claire Nolan this week, I think that judge must have been HI.

mawk

jesus christ no. non violent crimes are so much more frequent that prisons would be full in days and then violent or sexual offenders would have nowhere to be put and would get suspended sentences

44leto

mawk wrote: »

jesus christ no. non violent crimes are so much more frequent that prisons would be full in days and then violent or sexual offenders would have nowhere to be put and would get suspended sentences

I am all for building more prisons, but not for mandatory sentences.

twinytwo

Zaph wrote: »

I know a guy in the States whose 23 year old nephew became addicted to prescription painkillers after an accident. He had two previous convictions for possession when he was arrested after trying to use a forged prescription to obtain more painkillers. As Florida has a third strike law, he's now serving 25 years with no chance of parole in a maximum security prison. Hardly a proportionate response to his crime. As eth0 mentioned, life isn't always black and white and I agree that sentences should be appropriate. But making one rule for all without taking into account individual circumstances inevitably results in some people being treated unfairly.

He was given not one not two but 3 chances... he has on one to blame but himself.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.lawreform.ie/news/consultation-paper-on-mandatory-sentences.357.html

The Commission also examined other “presumptive” mandatory sentences, such as those introduced in 1999 for certain drugs offences and in 2006 for certain firearms offences. The drugs offence law states that 10 years should be imposed where the “street value” is over €13,000, but also allows for a lesser sentence in exceptional circumstances.

AFAIK no one has received the 10 year sentence that was supposed to be the minimum according to the Criminal Justice Act, 1999

every case so far has "exceptional circumstances" because AFAIK no one yet has received the legislated for sentence.

Just to clarify on something, when I say mandatory minimum prison sentencing, I don't mean 10 years for stealing a sliced pan out of Tesco.

I mean major crimes (murder, any degree of assault (except where in the course of self-defence), rape, kidnapping, etc.).

I do believe there should be minimum sentencing for smaller crimes (fixed fines, etc.) but I'm talking about an absolute minimum of years in prison for serious crimes that must be handed down.


Most of the "exceptional circumstances" that I hear of are "Sorry judge, i was drunk at the time I stabbed the random stranger in the face repeatedly".

If Ireland could write an autobiography it'd be called Suspended Sentence. There's genuinely no fear of going to court in this country by the scumbags out there (and this means that the Gardaí are forever running after the same criminals).

Three strikes rule would be a welcome change in my opinion. There are people out there with hundreds of convictions. It's like a parody of how a judicial system should be run.

El Weirdo

woodoo wrote: »

Sack judges who are too soft.

How will that work, exactly?

dvpower

El Weirdo wrote: »

How will that work, exactly?

You poke them with a stick and measure the resistance.

amacachi

The trouble is we have only manslaughter and murder. There's a tiny amount of murder convictions each year which leads to all kinds of cases ending up being treated as manslaughter. Should a thump when one thinks one is going to be attacked be treated the same as someone driving a car into someone and crushing them against a wall? No IMO.

Zaph

twinytwo wrote: »

He was given not one not two but 3 chances... he has on one to blame but himself.

I don't disagree that he had been given chances, but is 25 years an appropriate sentence for forging a prescription? The judge even said as much at the sentencing but that the law meant that he was unable to exercise his discretion and impose a more appropriate sentence. And that's the problem with mandatory sentencing, it removes the human element which is an essential part of the legal system and turns it into a machine.

woodoo

amacachi wrote: »

The trouble is we have only manslaughter and murder. There's a tiny amount of murder convictions each year which leads to all kinds of cases ending up being treated as manslaughter. Should a thump when one thinks one is going to be attacked be treated the same as someone driving a car into someone and crushing them against a wall? No IMO.

We could do with a few more types of convictions in between.