M9 crash - Tractor involved

AugustusMinimus

Being reported so far as a serious crash. Involved a car and a tractor towing a trailer.

If the tractor driver is still alive, I hope they throw the book at him. Will it take a death to actually start to get Gardai enforcing rules banning tractors, cyclists and pedestrians from using motorways ? I'm **** sick of seeing all 3 on motorways without the Gardai doing a thing.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0316/breaking56.html

Plug

When I was driving Kilkenny to Waterford back late last year for a few months I kept seeing tractors on that stretch and one day I seen one pulled in by the gaurds.

AugustusMinimus

Plug wrote: »

When I was driving Kilkenny to Waterford back late last year for a few months I kept seeing tractors on that stretch and one day I seen one pulled in by the gaurds.

Prob breathalyzed the driver and sent himon his way :rolleyes:

Mycroft H

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Being reported so far as a serious crash. Involved a car and a tractor towing a trailer.

If the tractor driver is still alive, I hope they throw the book at him. Will it take a death to actually start to get Gardai enforcing rules banning tractors, cyclists and pedestrians from using motorways ? I'm **** sick of seeing all 3 on motorways without the Gardai doing a thing.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0316/breaking56.html

As the current law stands, if the tractor can do 50km/h its allowed on the motorway whether its doing the 50km/h or not. Its a ridiculous situation at the minute.

Hope no one is badly injured or worse

dudara

It's kind of hard to drive into a tractor on a motorway (they are pretty visible after all), so I'd like to know more details about what happened here.

But yes, the tractor thing needs to be tackled. I thought there was some recent change limiting tractors to 40 km/h, which overwrites the 50 km/h motorway limit.

padd b1975

It's been reported that there was one person was killed.

ottostreet

I've also heard that a man died in the crash.

Mycroft H

dudara wrote: »

It's kind of hard to drive into a tractor on a motorway (they are pretty visible after all), so I'd like to know more details about what happened here.

But yes, the tractor thing needs to be tackled. I thought there was some recent change limiting tractors to 40 km/h, which overwrites the 50 km/h motorway limit.

Someone wasn't paying attention and rear ended the tractor, they're really isn't much else that could happen.

Gary ITR

I only drove that stretch a couple of hours before

S28382

padd b1975 wrote: »

It's been reported that there was one person was killed.

Yeah 1 person killed on the section of motorway between knocktopher and danesfort it is closed off, I travel that motorway everyday there is always tractors on it driving way too slow, very sad to hear some1 has died,

Figerty

It's very easy to hit a tractor on the motor way.. Tractor is doing say 40 km/hr and you are legally doing 120 km/h. You will come up very fast on its rear and it can be difficult to slow downq quickly or move out in traffic.

Same thing applies with slow drivers on the motorway. If your concentration slips then you are up on their rear very fast.

dudara wrote: »

It's kind of hard to drive into a tractor on a motorway (they are pretty visible after all), so I'd like to know more details about what happened here.

But yes, the tractor thing needs to be tackled. I thought there was some recent change limiting tractors to 40 km/h, which overwrites the 50 km/h motorway limit.

fricatus

BX 19 wrote: »

Someone wasn't paying attention and rear ended the tractor, they're really isn't much else that could happen.

Not necessarily. That section of motorway has a few curves, so even if you were doing the legal maximum of 120 and the tractor was doing the legal minimum of 50 then you could suddenly find yourself closing fast on the tractor. Then anything can happen - you move out but someone's in your blind spot for example...

RIP to the poor bugger involved. I drive that stretch of motorway every day, though I just happen to be off work today, and it's shocking the sh1t that I see. Unfortunately today's tragedy is no surprise to me :mad:

I had a near miss myself a while back - see this thread.

Mycroft H

fricatus wrote: »

Not necessarily. That section of motorway has a few curves, so even if you were doing the legal maximum of 120 and the tractor was doing the legal minimum of 50 then you could suddenly find yourself closing fast on the tractor. Then anything can happen - you move out but someone's in your blind spot for example...

RIP to the poor bugger involved. I drive that stretch of motorway every day, though I just happen to be off work today, and it's shocking the sh1t that I see. Unfortunately today's tragedy is no surprise to me :mad:

I had a near miss myself a while back - see this thread.

Is there blind curves where you could be up on a tractor without time to break? Still comes under not paying attention.


Either way its a sad day for the families involved

fricatus

BX 19 wrote: »

Is there blind curves where you could be up on a tractor without time to break? Still comes under not paying attention.

No there aren't - it's a motorway after all, but there are some nice long curved sections. Some of them remind me of the A1 in the North.

And no of course you're not going to come suddenly upon a tractor like that, but anyone who drives daily on a motorway will know what it's like to come up behind someone who's going too slow, or else a big tailback. You're tootling along at 120, minding your own business, overtaking, being overtaken, and then all of a sudden you have to brake and lash on the hazards, or else disengage the cruise control because some tool is doing 80 kph and there are already cars behind you in the overtaking lane.

We don't know the particulars of this accent, so I think it's a bit unfair to simply call it as "not paying attention". Motorway driving is so monotonous that there has to be a big margin for safety. This is why you're not allowed to stop, and why pedestrians and cyclists aren't allowed. They only work when everyone is bombing along together. One idiot going significantly slower or significantly faster than 100-130 km/h disrupts this balance and cause a dangerous situation.

ottostreet

There are tractors regularly on the M9, driving halfway in the hard shoulder, half blocking the driving lane, I can't see how someone can be so thick as to drive one on a motorway.

rdjzb

Its hard to not spot a tractor/trailer in the middle of the day ... R.I.P to the driver of the car

Yawns

dudara wrote: »

It's kind of hard to drive into a tractor on a motorway (they are pretty visible after all), so I'd like to know more details about what happened here.

I was on the M9 the other night and there was a tractor towing a trailer with 0 lights on the back. Tractors shouldn't be on the motorway at all full stop. Too dangerous because of the difference in speeds that they go compared to cars. I firmly believe a minimum limit should be placed on motorways.

I don't mind cars driving at 90 km/h on motorways as you can overtake. Even if someone is currently overtaking you, you can slow down for a few seconds and then move out when safe, overtake the slower driver and be on your way. Of course you will get the numpties driving in the "fast lane".

rdjzb

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

If the tractor driver is still alive, I hope they throw the book at him. Will it take a death to actually start to get Gardai enforcing rules banning tractors, cyclists and pedestrians from using motorways ? I'm **** sick of seeing all 3 on motorways without the Gardai doing a thing.

Sorry but that accident was not the fault of the trailer driving so there should be no "throw(ing) the book at him". If you were rear ended would you expect to be blamed?

and tractors are LEGALLY allowed on the motorway!!

staker

If it's a tractor capable of doing more than 50kmh there's only gonna be one loser in an accident with a car.

Unfortunately someone has:mad:

sean1141

Yawns wrote: »

I was on the M9 the other night and there was a tractor towing a trailer with 0 lights on the back. Tractors shouldn't be on the motorway at all full stop. Too dangerous because of the difference in speeds that they go compared to cars. I firmly believe a minimum limit should be placed on motorways.

I don't mind cars driving at 90 km/h on motorways as you can overtake. Even if someone is currently overtaking you, you can slow down for a few seconds and then move out when safe, overtake the slower driver and be on your way. Of course you will get the numpties driving in the "fast lane".

is 50k not the mininuim limit??

slimjimmc

sean1141 wrote: »

is 50k not the mininuim limit??

No. It is the minimum top speed a vehicle must be capable of doing safely but there's no requirement to keep driving above 50km/h.

Rovi

sean1141 wrote: »

is 50k not the mininuim limit??

Nope, 50km/h is the minimum speed of which a vehicle must be capable.
There's no minimum limit.

ottostreet

I don't think anyone can argue with a tractor being a 'slow vehicle'.

staker

Heard once the 50kmh was brought in for builders during the boom. Cheaper to buy a tractor-trailer outright and run their own transportation to move landfill etc. than hire outside hauliers to do the job by lorry.

Could be pure codswallop...

0066ad

Was there not a new rule put in place for tractors,
not to go faster than 40 km/h. If that is the case
the tractor should not have been on the motorway

Trying to find a link about this and this is the best
i could find http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/What-Category-is-my-vehicle/Tractors-/


I fcking hate tractors there is millions of them where
i live. I was once stuck behind one from Baltinglass all
the way to hollywood in wicklow

Rovi

0066ad wrote: »

Was there not a new rule put in place for tractors,
not to no faster than 40 km/h. If that is the case
the tractor should not have been on the motorway

Trying to find a link about this and this is the best
i could find http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/What-Category-is-my-vehicle/Tractors-/

There was talk of making tractors of Category 5 in the above link (Wheeled tractors with a maximum design speed of more than 40 km/h) liable for commercial rates of tax, VRT, insurance, testing, and use of white diesel.
I don't know if anything ever came of it or if it's still being considered.

Gary ITR

staker wrote: »

Heard once the 50kmh was brought in for builders during the boom. Cheaper to buy a tractor-trailer outright and run their own transportation to move landfill etc. than hire outside hauliers to do the job by lorry.

Could be pure codswallop...

It is, those signs were on the M50 when it first opened before boom time

Kxiii

Just came down that stretch about twenty minutes ago and the Guards still have it closed. As you re entering the motorway at Knocktopher you can see a lot of blue lights still flashing about half a mile up the road.

john reilly

considering hgv's arent allowed to use the outside lane. this in theory means that a lorry would have to sit behind a tractor doing 35kmh. from dundalk to cork. get them to f..k off the motorway

john reilly

the signs on the motorway used to be 50mph then when they changed to kmh they changed that part but didnt put 80kmh for some reason

dr.fuzzenstein

It's a complete farce that these things are allowed on the motorway at all.
If a tractor was to end up on the Autobahn in Germany, every radio station would broadcast announcements, people would be diverted to other routes, police would call out and, if nothing else happens, people would talk about it for weeks.
It's lazy and sloppy law making without a thought put into it, other than to go for another tea break.
The tractor drivers are only to happy to exploit the situation and I'm sure the tractor drivers defense will be "I Am Entitled!".
Yes, the driver of the car mustn't have been paying attention, but a tractor on a motorway would just be unthinkable anywhere else.

Marcusm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's a complete farce that these things are allowed on the motorway at all.
If a tractor was to end up on the Autobahn in Germany, every radio station would broadcast announcements, people would be diverted to other routes, police would call out and, if nothing else happens, people would talk about it for weeks.
It's lazy and sloppy law making without a thought put into it, other than to go for another tea break.
The tractor drivers are only to happy to exploit the situation and I'm sure the tractor drivers defense will be "I Am Entitled!".
Yes, the driver of the car mustn't have been paying attention, but a tractor on a motorway would just be unthinkable anywhere else.

But he is entitled as he's been driving that route for 30 years even if the road is only 5 years old. Logistically,it is very hard to mix traffic moving at 120kph and 50kph without the possibility of serious accidents. This increases greatly during "lighting up" hours due to reduced visibility.

galwaytt

Marcusm wrote: »

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's a complete farce that these things are allowed on the motorway at all.
If a tractor was to end up on the Autobahn in Germany, every radio station would broadcast announcements, people would be diverted to other routes, police would call out and, if nothing else happens, people would talk about it for weeks.
It's lazy and sloppy law making without a thought put into it, other than to go for another tea break.
The tractor drivers are only to happy to exploit the situation and I'm sure the tractor drivers defense will be "I Am Entitled!".
Yes, the driver of the car mustn't have been paying attention, but a tractor on a motorway would just be unthinkable anywhere else.

But he is entitled as he's been driving that route for 30 years even if the road is only 5 years old. Logistically,it is very hard to mix traffic moving at 120kph and 50kph without the possibility of serious accidents. This increases greatly during "lighting up" hours due to reduced visibility.

It's time for a proper, mandated,minimum speed on the motorway.

argosy2006

Its actually the trailer been towed that is issue, All trailers towed by trucks need a doe, But not tractor trailers, TheY go around with no markings on the back of them, No side markings, No side lights, No rear lights most of them
THAT'S CRAZY IN 2012

Not only that but the trailer been towed hides tractor towing it,
So now you have a slow tractor pulling a trailer is very hard to see,And blocks the tractor too,,So people driving up behind this at speed see nothing, It blends in
Nothing to made it stand out
LIKE BIG RED MARKINGS AND LIGHTS LIKE A TRUCK TRAILER HAS



Imagine approaching this at 120,
Looks like a fecking tree

pred racer

galwaytt wrote: »

It's time for a proper, mandated,minimum speed on the motorway.

True. About 119Kph!

slimjimmc

john reilly wrote: »

the signs on the motorway used to be 50mph then when they changed to kmh they changed that part but didnt put 80kmh for some reason

Er, no. Before metric speed limits the slow vehicle signs were 30mph not 50mph.



Sorry it's a small pic but you can just about read 30 mph.

carbon nanotube

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Being reported so far as a serious crash. Involved a car and a tractor towing a trailer.

If the tractor driver is still alive, I hope they throw the book at him. Will it take a death to actually start to get Gardai enforcing rules banning tractors, cyclists and pedestrians from using motorways ? I'm **** sick of seeing all 3 on motorways without the Gardai doing a thing.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0316/breaking56.html

only in Ireland could a tractor be seen on a motorway... retarded.

If a tractor was on a motorway in the uk people would look at it and go ...wtf..

GaryIrv93

At one stage about 2 years ago I saw a few of those Mowag Pirahna APC's the army use in a line of 4 on the M50. They're much larger than tractors and from what I remember, they weren't driving at near the same speed as everyone else. If someone had hit one of those it could have been much more serious. Even though I don't even drive, slow vehicles on roads such as tractors, JCB's etc annoy me to no end as a lot of the time they're too dangerous to overtake safely, can be very frustrating when you're in a hurry,

Annuv

The tractor driver is entitled to be driving on the motorway by law but it's shocking that the law permits this, especially when you consider that he is likely to be travelling anywhere between 80-100 kmph slower than most other vehicles on the motorway

Some people are wondering how hard it can be to see a tractor on a motorway, well seeing the tractor isn't the only problem, recognizing it's a slow moving tractor up ahead and not just another faster vehicle such as a flat bed lorry for example is another, accurately judging the speed of the tractor and the braking distances required are other problems and the possible inability to change lanes due to other cars is yet another. When you add in the motorway induced boredom and possible resultant dimished attention of drivers, well all these problems can spell disaster.

julyjane

Marcusm wrote: »

But he is entitled as he's been driving that route for 30 years even if the road is only 5 years old. Logistically,it is very hard to mix traffic moving at 120kph and 50kph without the possibility of serious accidents. This increases greatly during "lighting up" hours due to reduced visibility.

The section of motorway between Danesfort and Knocktopher is only open about 2 years - most of the roads that were being used by tractors and all other traffic previous to that are still there, there are flyovers in some parts. Tractors using a road that's designed for high speed traffic is lazy and dangerous. May the man who died Rest In Peace

AugustusMinimus

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

At one stage about 2 years ago I saw a few of those Mowag Pirahna APC's the army use in a line of 4 on the M50. They're much larger than tractors and from what I remember, they weren't driving at near the same speed as everyone else. If someone had hit one of those it could have been much more serious. Even though I don't even drive, slow vehicles on roads such as tractors, JCB's etc annoy me to no end as a lot of the time they're too dangerous to overtake safely, can be very frustrating when you're in a hurry,

I don't mind them as long as they pull in now and then when they can to leave cars behind them past.

However, there's always the odd idiot who won't pull in for anyone and give's all tractor drivers a bad name.

Cantona's Collars

One of these can do 80kph and are used as an alternative to trucks.



It's the smaller,slow tractors that shouldn't be on the motorway but it happens,I've seen them on the Gorey bypass crawling along.Although that stretch of road seems to be special,I've seen cyclists,walkers & even a couple of bikers having tea on the hard shoulder.If you did any of the above in another country you'd end up in court or at least get a nice fine.

Mc Love

Was heading up to Dublin two weeks ago on a Sunday evening On the M7 and all of a sudden there was an enormous tailback (i thought there must have been an accident) but no there was tractor and trailed tipping along at what must have been 40/45 km/h!

Absolutely scandalous

unkel

Not just tractors, I see cars being driven at 50-60km/h on Irish motorways regularly. I've driven on motorways in dozens of countries but Ireland is the only country where I've seen that

Anywhere in continental Europe where one car is doing 60km/h and the other is doing 180km/h on a motorway, guess who the traffic police go after straight away?

johnos1984

unkel wrote: »

Anywhere in continental Europe where one car is doing 60km/h and the other is doing 180km/h on a motorway, guess who the traffic police go after straight away?

I've heard of the Italian police giving people a right bollocking for that

eire-kp

argosy2006 wrote: »

Its actually the trailer been towed that is issue, All trailers towed by trucks need a doe, But not tractor trailers, TheY go around with no markings on the back of them, No side markings, No side lights, No rear lights most of them
THAT'S CRAZY IN 2012

Not only that but the trailer been towed hides tractor towing it,
So now you have a slow tractor pulling a trailer is very hard to see,And blocks the tractor too,,So people driving up behind this at speed see nothing, It blends in
Nothing to made it stand out
LIKE BIG RED MARKINGS AND LIGHTS LIKE A TRUCK TRAILER HAS



Imagine approaching this at 120,
Looks like a fecking tree

To be fair most of the tractors and trailer combination are of a high specification and have good lighting. Judging by the size of that trailer and the tyre choice its made for going on to bogs. I doubt it would be economical to tow that down the motorway.

Mycroft H

zerks wrote: »

One of these can do 80kph and are used as an alternative to trucks.



It's the smaller,slow tractors that shouldn't be on the motorway but it happens,I've seen them on the Gorey bypass crawling along.Although that stretch of road seems to be special,I've seen cyclists,walkers & even a couple of bikers having tea on the hard shoulder.If you did any of the above in another country you'd end up in court or at least get a nice fine.

I have no problem with a fastrack on a motorway, its the slower vehicles that are the danger.

Mycroft H

Sitec wrote: »

And they don't enforce any of them!

L Drivers - Yep see them on an almost daily bases.
Vehicles Under 50cc - I saw a moped on the M50 once, not sure if was >50cc
Invalid Carriages - Not seen any of them yet
Pedal Cycles - Seen one between J9-J10 on the M50.
Pedestrians - Cant remember any walkers tbh
Animals - Not yet

johnos1984

L Drivers - Constantly spot them......and their obsessions with being in the overtaking lane
Vehicles Under 50cc - Spot them on the motorway near Dublin regularly
Invalid Carriages - Not seen any of them
Pedal Cycles - spotted regularly
Pedestrians - today at 4pm walking towards the Mad Cow
Animals - Regularly spot deer on the M11 near Ashford.......nearly hit one during the summer.......saw one being taken out by a truck a week later :eek:

dr.fuzzenstein

johnos1984 wrote: »

L Drivers - Constantly spot them......and their obsessions with being in the overtaking lane
Vehicles Under 50cc - Spot them on the motorway near Dublin regularly
Invalid Carriages - Not seen any of them
Pedal Cycles - spotted regularly
Pedestrians - today at 4pm walking towards the Mad Cow
Animals - Regularly spot deer on the M11 near Ashford.......nearly hit one during the summer.......saw one being taken out by a truck a week later :eek:

Ouch.
Though much harder to keep deer in check, not like you can give them points on their licence!;)

johnos1984

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Ouch.
Though much harder to keep deer in check, not like you can give them points on their licence!;)

The exit just before Ashford.....Coynes corner? where the speed limit changes is a regular spot for deer spotting and splatting