Can a believer make any sense of this

cowzerp

The population of the earth is said to be over 7 Billion, that is 7,000,000,000 or 7 thousand million people.

I always think of how hard it is to keep track on ants if there is about 100 of them all moving about, add to that if they where all praying to me and i could hear them, that would be too many for me to keep track of, 100 is considerably smaller than 7 Billion!!

How does God know if all these are living within his set rules, and how can he keep up with their prayers, problems or just in general what they're doing.

I like to look at things logically and this is just a step too far to me that god can keep tabs on all these people.

Santa maybe but he has lots of elves and gets letters sent to his address.

Opinions from Believers would be most welcome, and non believers too

im invisible

Ah shur isnt he impotent, or something

robindch

cowzerp wrote: »

just a step too far to me that god can keep tabs on all these people.

Hey, the christian deity can not only do all of that, but even more:

Luke 12:6-7 wrote:

Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

So there you go. Your hair is bar-coded and you're worth more than lots of pennies. You should be able to feel the love now.

It's got something to do with omniscience, omnipotence, omnibeneficence and omnivorosity.

jhegarty

My computer has 300GB harddrive. So it tracks 300 billion bits of information. Or 42 bits for everyone in the world.

If you believe in a God who created the universe it's not a leap to assume he can keep track of more information then Dell's latest offering.

GLaDOS

Does he keep track of insects? Bacteria? Viruses? Prions??

cowzerp

jhegarty wrote: »

My computer has 300GB harddrive. So it tracks 300 billion bits of information. Or 42 bits for everyone in the world.

If you believe in a God who created the universe it's not a leap to assume he can keep track of more information then Dell's latest offering.

Are you saying we're robots?!

Edit; Also your computer does not understand what the typing means.

jhegarty

cowzerp wrote: »

Are you saying we're robots?!

gbee

I find it an amazing question. But it's a sort of who cares in this forum, isn't it?

MagicMarker

Well, since you're looking for opinions from believers, and I happen to believe that Heinz Ketchup is far superior to Chef's Ketchup, then my opinion on the matter is this....

CTRL-A

.

God doesn't exist.

Mena

robindch wrote: »

It's got something to do with omniscience, omnipotence, omnibeneficence and omnivorosity.

And obfuscation of course!

robindch

cowzerp wrote: »

Also your computer does not understand what the typing means.

Yes, but jhegarty doesn't understand how his computer works, but he can work it all the same. And the little bright dots on the screen make letters, but do they understand the letters? No, but they convey a message all the same.

This is, like, just so super-deep, brother(*).

(*) could be sister.

Tzetze

jhegarty wrote: »

My computer has 300GB harddrive. So it tracks 300 billion bits of information. Or 42 bits for everyone in the world.

If you believe in a God who created the universe it's not a leap to assume he can keep track of more information then Dell's latest offering.

Sorry to be so annoyingly pedantic but 300GB = 2,576,980,377,600 bits or 368 bits for everyone in the world.

robindch

Tzetze wrote: »

Sorry to be so annoyingly pedantic but 300GB = 2,576,980,377,600 bits or 368 bits for everyone in the world.

Being substantially more annoying and pedantic, 300Gb storage is 2.4x10^12 bits of physical memory, since disks traditionally use a multiplier of 1,000, rather than the 1,024 multiplier used for memory. See here for more info. Western Digital was successfully sued for this confusion some years ago:

http://betanews.com/2006/06/28/western-digital-settles-capacity-suit/

Which indicates that, in California at least, there are only ~343 bits available for each living human, though that's likely to be enough to enumerate the hairs on each person's body, as well as the number of deistic pennies they're worth.

Ellis Dee

Numbers are measurable; in other words, they have to do with reality. Belief in a sky fairy, djinn, universal spirit, god or what are you having yourself has nothing to do with reality. Therefore it is not at all difficult for believers to "know" that the deity is capable of micromanaging not only every quadrillion ant or termite, every quintillion virus, and not only on this planet, but also throughout the universe with its quadrillions of quintillions of planets and all the gazillions of creatures on them. And that's only our universe, not to even look at the possibly infinite number of them in the multiverse ---:rolleyes:

The OP's question was doomed to failure from the moment he put "believer" and "sense" in the same sentence.

token56

My understanding of it is, as long we repent for any sins we commited before we die and accept god everything is ok? I know this is probably a very crude approximation of what the church actually believes. But if this is remotely true, he probably doesn't need to check on people until we die and see if we confessed our sins and accept him or not. So this cuts down the number of people he needs to keep tabs on dramatically. If he was smart he could also cut out people who belong to other religions such as Islam or Zoroastrianism too, so he is really starting to cut down his numbers now. I imagine god is a shrewd character so probably has it down to a fine art at this stage.

swampgas

A believer doesn't really try to make sense of anything - they rely on "faith" instead.

If religious people cared about making sense of the world more than they needed to believe in fairy tales for grown-ups, they wouldn't be religious in the first place.

(In my humble opinion, obviously ....)

MrStuffins

The answer is:

"Because he's God".

That's the answer to everything!

Zombrex

God is so powerful and intelligent that he can and does know everything that has happened, is happening and will happen in the entire universe, which he designed and then created.



Always amusing when this description of god is combined with the argument that the universe is too complex to just exist. :P

gillad

God doesnt keep tabs on us.We have free will to do what we like and thats why theres so much bad in the world, because of our animal instinct to survive and be top dog.

Monty Burnz

jhegarty wrote: »

My computer has 300GB harddrive. So it tracks 300 billion bits of information. Or 42 bits for everyone in the world.

If you believe in a God who created the universe it's not a leap to assume he can keep track of more information then Dell's latest offering.

42 bits isn't going to be enough to track all of your molecules, or indeed atoms. And that's just for the people - what about the sparrows? :)

gillad

gillad wrote: »

God doesnt keep tabs on us.We have free will to do what we like and thats why theres so much bad in the world, because of our animal instinct to survive and be top dog.

if i programmed something to break and then punished it for breaking, id be called a crazy person

Monty Burnz

bluewolf wrote: »

if i programmed something to break and then punished it for breaking, id be called a crazy person

Yeah, but the broken thing would call you 'god'.

Zombrex

bluewolf wrote: »

if i programmed something to break and then punished it for breaking, id be called a crazy person

Also if you knew someone was going to do something criminal, like harm a child, and did nothing to prevent it you would be arrested.

God knows what we are going to do and stands back and lets it happen. Apparently he has to otherwise it will break "free will" and that would be bad, though strangely no one makes that argument when the police stop a suicide bomber just before he boards a plane ... :P

MrStuffins

Anyone who thinks God doesn't move us around like Chess pieces and make everything happen as he sees fit has obviously never heard an American Sportsman speak after a victory!

It's all about the Yahweh!!

gillad

bluewolf wrote: »

if i programmed something to break and then punished it for breaking, id be called a crazy person

God doesnt punish anybody.
Thats something the catholic church made up to keep you all scared and in line

Monty Burnz

gillad wrote: »

God doesnt punish anybody.

So we all go to heaven? SWEET!

Although I'd hate to be rooming with Hitler.

gillad

Monty Burnz wrote: »

So we all go to heaven? SWEET!

Although I'd hate to be rooming with Hitler.

Yes we all go to that place you call heaven, if your spiritually strong enough.
I dont think hitler was too spiritual so his energy just dissipated into the universe and that was the end of him forever so you wont be rooming with him:D

Monty Burnz

gillad wrote: »

Yes we all go to that place you call heaven, if your spiritually strong enough.
I dont think hitler was too spiritual so his energy just dissipated into the universe and that was the end of him forever so you wont be rooming with him:D

Who makes us spiritually strong or weak?

gillad

You are in charge of your own spiritual destiny so its up to you to strenghten it or ignore it.God doesnt care if you ignore him because its your loss not his but he is happy when people find him.

Zombrex

gillad wrote: »

You are in charge of your own spiritual destiny so its up to you to strenghten it or ignore it.God doesnt care if you ignore him because its your loss not his but he is happy when people find him.

By "doesn't care" you mean "will be so angry he throws you into a lake of fire to suffer for all eternity", right?

Monty Burnz

gillad wrote: »

You are in charge of your own spiritual destiny so its up to you to strenghten it or ignore it.

But surely some people are predisposed to focus on their spiritual side and others are just more practical? I was never going to be a religious person - I question too much.

gillad

gillad wrote: »

You are in charge of your own spiritual destiny so its up to you to strenghten it

is there a workout video i can do?

gillad

Zombrex wrote: »

By "doesn't care" you mean "will be so angry he throws you into a lake of fire to suffer for all eternity", right?

"doesnt care" means he doesnt care so he wont do anything to you or for you:( ... would you care about someone who didnt give a **** about you?

gillad

Monty Burnz wrote: »

But surely some people are predisposed to focus on their spiritual side and others are just more practical? I was never going to be a religious person - I question too much.

you are the same i was 3 months ago.
40 years of atheism

gillad

bluewolf wrote: »

is there a workout video i can do?

ya,get down on your knees and pray:)
just stay away from the church and do it at home
talk to god rather than pray

Zombrex

gillad wrote: »

"doesnt care" means he doesnt care so he wont do anything to you or for you:( ... would you care about someone who didnt give a **** about you?

Probably not. But then I also wouldn't wish that they suffered in a lake of fire for all eternity either.

Monty Burnz

gillad wrote: »

you are the same i was 3 months ago.
40 years of atheism

You consciously decided to become religious? I couldn't pretend to believe something that I don't - that's just how I was made.

gillad

Zombrex wrote: »

Probably not. But then I also wouldn't wish that they suffered in a lake of fire for all eternity either.

suffering in a lake of fire is something the catholic church made up.
there is NO hell

gillad

Monty Burnz wrote: »

You consciously decided to become religious? I couldn't pretend to believe something that I don't - that's just how I was made.

I didnt decide to be religious and i dont call myself religious.Im not sure what i am now but everything(life/death/ghosts/big bang theory/jesus/muhamed/buddah)makes sense to me now and it all fits together into one big picture.....Im quiet amazed at the clarity that i have now and never expected this to happen to me but im delighted it did happen:):):)

Monty Burnz

gillad wrote: »

I didnt decide to be religious and i dont call myself religious.Im not sure what i am now but everything(life/death/ghosts/big bang theory/jesus/muhamed/buddah)makes sense to me now and it all fits together into one big picture.....Im quiet amazed at the clarity that i have now and never expected this to happen to me but im delighted it did happen:):):)

So this was a change that came externally?

gillad

Monty Burnz wrote: »

So this was a change that came externally?

It was a sequence of events that happened to me in the real world(usual life problems)and in the process of getting things back to normal i started to get answers(in my own mind) to what we are and why we are here....they call it becoming enlightened....Im not there yet but im on the right track

Monty Burnz

gillad wrote: »

It was a sequence of events that happened to me in the real world(usual life problems)and in the process of getting things back to normal i started to get answers(in my own mind) to what we are and why we are here....they call it becoming enlightened....Im not there yet but im on the right track

And if somebody is not lucky enough to have this happen to them - they are goosed?

gillad

Monty Burnz wrote: »

And if somebody is not lucky enough to have this happen to them - they are goosed?

It can happen to us all because it happened to me.
Dont know if you can force it and i hate to say this because im not a preacher and dont want to be, but praying can get you there.
I prayed and i didnt believe in a god but it was kind of a mantra to get my mind off things and to get to sleep at night and "BINGO" i started to get answers and now im here and i dont even pray much anymore cause i dont need to pray anymore.Praying opens the door even if you dont believe it will and once the door is open praying isnt as important..you can just talk to god then

Monty Burnz

gillad wrote: »

It can happen to us all because it happened to me.
Dont know if you can force it and i hate to say this because im not a preacher and dont want to be, but praying can get you there.

That's a bit circular though - I won't pray because I don't believe in that stuff. And you're saying that you can bring about belief by praying. Do you see the problem?

gillad

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That's a bit circular though - I won't pray because I don't believe in that stuff. And you're saying that you can bring about belief by praying. Do you see the problem?

ya,i see the problem but when life get f`d up and you can find no help or way out a lot of people pray to god as a last resort.Thats what happened to me.So its a bit crazy that most people will have to go through a bad patch before they find the truth.
Try it out anyway as an experiment,it only takes a couple of minutes a day to pray and keep it up for a few weeks.
Youv nothing to lose

Monty Burnz

gillad wrote: »

Youv nothing to lose

Unfortunately, due to the way that I am, I also believe I've nothing to gain!

gillad

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Unfortunately, due to the way that I am, I also believe I've nothing to gain!

As long as your happy and live a good life thats all that matters.:)

This has happened to me and iv always been a logical person who needs to understands how everything works and now i have something new to figure out and its all very interesting and amazing

swampgas

gillad wrote: »

Try it out anyway as an experiment,it only takes a couple of minutes a day to pray and keep it up for a few weeks.
Youv nothing to lose

Yes I have - my grip on reality.

gillad

swampgas wrote: »

Yes I have - my grip on reality.

your view on reality is not my view on reality:eek:

MagicMarker

gillad wrote: »

your view on reality is not my view on reality:eek:

Well, reality is constant, just because your view of it changes doesn't mean it changes.

Adamas

token56 wrote: »

My understanding of it is, as long we repent for any sins we commited before we die and accept god everything is ok? I know this is probably a very crude approximation of what the church actually believes. But if this is remotely true, he probably doesn't need to check on people until we die and see if we confessed our sins and accept him or not. So this cuts down the number of people he needs to keep tabs on dramatically. If he was smart he could also cut out people who belong to other religions such as Islam or Zoroastrianism too, so he is really starting to cut down his numbers now. I imagine god is a shrewd character so probably has it down to a fine art at this stage.

Wow, thanks for the heads-up Token. I'm off to the takeaway with my shotgun, safe in the knowledge that if I feel remorse and 'accept God' before I die (I'm sure I will), then I'll save myself €9.50 for dinner box and a Coke...great stuff this belief!