Collins "Criminal Card"

salutations

On the front of the Times. I'd love to get a look at this

http://irishtimes.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

jonniebgood1

salutations wrote: »

On the front of the Times. I'd love to get a look at this

http://irishtimes.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

From http://irishtimes.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

mikemac1

The big fella was not so big it seems

And in a recent post it seemed he was a large framed bull of a man
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77447295&postcount=4

According to the criminal card he's around average with a slight frame

Which is correct?

He seems a large impressive man here

tac foley

He wasn't called 'The Big Fella' for nothing, or as a joke. My dad, who was 'six feet and a bit' tall at 18, remembered General Collins as about his height, maybe a little shorter, but built like a heavyweight boxer. No small man, then, even if he was not 6ft 6in.

Mind you, with a bit of imagery analysis I could probably figure out how tall he was, given a good photo and some handy nearby heighting measurements to use for comparison.

On the other paw - does anybody ACTUALLY know?

On thing I DO know, there'll be no midget Tom Cruise acting the part of Michael Collins, the way he frawked his way into playing the six-foot-six, one-eyed and one-armed Stauffenberg in 'Valkyrie'.

tac

Judgement Day

Looks a fascinating piece of historical ephemera and I hope it ends up in the National Museum. I suppose if the British were searching for a 5'7" priest with a false moustache instead of a burly 6'1" man it would account for their failure to capture him.

MarchDub

The 'Big Fella' tag didn't so much come from Collins' physical size - which may or may not have been large - but from admiration for his attitude. He was often described as swanning around like a 'big fella' - fearless and indomitable, especially in the face of having a large bounty on his head.

Tim Pat Coogan in his Collins biography:

...despite his “Big Fellow”, swash buckling side, Collins could shun publicity when he wanted to.

Generally in his London years women of his own class found him ‘cheeky’ his ‘Big Fellow” sobriquet indicating swollen headedness, as much as height, just under six feet.

wolfpawnat

This is not a great photo as all three men are wearing hats, but going by the height of DeV's and Collin's noses, you can see there is some bit of a difference and DeV was recorded to be either 6ft1/6ft2 so it is clear he is no taller than 5ft10! He was never known as a tall man and having seen his uniform when it was on display, I can confirm it was about that!



The English, as much as I don't want to give it to them, were great at collecting intelligence on the Irish. They were even able to establish Dan Breen's approximate weight! Not to mention they were accurate with his and most other's heights.

jonniebgood1

MarchDub wrote: »

The 'Big Fella' tag didn't so much come from Collins' physical size - which may or may not have been large - but from admiration for his attitude. He was often described as swanning around like a 'big fella' - fearless and indomitable, especially in the face of having a large bounty on his head.

Any more info on where the big fella nickname originated? Was'nt it a name given at Frongach camp (according to Meda Ryan in 'Michael Collins and the Women Who Spied for Ireland' <Edit> It was page 28 of Ryans book)? I can't get further detail on it.

MarchDub

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Any more info on where the big fella nickname originated? Was'nt it a name given at Frongach camp (according to Meda Ryan in 'Michael Collins and the Women Who Spied for Ireland')? I can't get further detail on it.

I didn't see your post until after I added the Coogan quotes to my above post - will look around further but Coogan seems to be indicating that he had it even in his young years in London. But I did hear it frequently referred to as an attitude rather than a size attribution.

MarchDub

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Any more info on where the big fella nickname originated? Was'nt it a name given at Frongach camp (according to Meda Ryan in 'Michael Collins and the Women Who Spied for Ireland' <Edit> It was page 28 of Ryans book)? I can't get further detail on it.

I see it on page 28 all right -

His high spirits, his cheerfulness, his daring, his leadership and organisational ability led to the name Michael being affectionately replaced by 'Mick'. It was at this time in Frongoch that the nickname 'The Big Fellow' was first used about Michael.

and the notes at the back indicate that Meda Ryan got the information directly from Ned Barrett. She interviewed him in 1974 for information on Collins. Sounds right to me. It could have been a name that followed him there - a nickname from earlier on and then became established, as nicknames tend to do. But I do think that it was an affectionate title concerning his ability to swagger - and his 'daring' as described above - and just not give a damn about danger.

paky

i read somewhere that the nick name big fella developed from a sarcastic scorn and it had nothing to do with collins been big.

it would seem accurate from irish peoples disdain of successful people

James1964

tac foley wrote: »

He wasn't called 'The Big Fella' for nothing, or as a joke. My dad, who was 'six feet and a bit' tall at 18, remembered General Collins as about his height, maybe a little shorter, but built like a heavyweight boxer. No small man, then, even if he was not 6ft 6in.

Mind you, with a bit of imagery analysis I could probably figure out how tall he was, given a good photo and some handy nearby heighting measurements to use for comparison.

On the other paw - does anybody ACTUALLY know?

On thing I DO know, there'll be no midget Tom Cruise acting the part of Michael Collins, the way he frawked his way into playing the six-foot-six, one-eyed and one-armed Stauffenberg in 'Valkyrie'.

He was 5ft ll, 6ft in shoes or boots. His measurements are in army archives and were also in the shop in Dame Street where he bought he had his uniforms made.

dubhthach

I recall reading in Irish Times a couple years ago that the average height of men in Ireland in the 1920's was something like 5'8 however I don't have a link to that. If Collins was indeed 5'11 he was taller then average.