U20 squads throughput to provinces

padraig.od

I love the under 20s. The possibilities are endless!

From what people are saying on the U-20 6N thread and from what I've seen myself the consensus is that most from Henderson Hanrahan Conan McGrath Gilsenan Layden Farrell Jackson will all make it (by make it I mean get a pro contract) (yes I know some of these guys might have contracts already but none are regular first choice with their provinces). So thats 8 of the 23 (35% of the squad) named for the final 6 Nation match this season.

I've had a trawl through the news archives and pulled out the squads for the Junior RWC from 2008 to 2011 (would love to see 2007, 2006 and 2005 U21 squads if anyone can find them). Unfortunately they don't list position as I'd be interested in where our underage props are disappearing to.

I've highlighted those that I *think* have picked up development/pro contracts in Ireland or are contracted abroad. Feel free to point out where I'm wrong, or players that I missed. I'm not familiar with the Connacht academy so apologies Connacht fans. Do any names stick out of guys that were expected the be the next big thing but haven't fulfilled their potential?

I'm interested in what % of guys who are elite at under age level make it in the pro game.... I'd also be interested in names that didn't make the elite under age squad but have come through for their provinces anyway. Some of the names overlap, so I've doubled counted them so, say, Jackson is in this years batch and last years so he is counted twice.

2011 - 11/26 (42%)

Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Finlay Bealham (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Andrew Boyle (UCD/Leinster)*
Shane Buckley (Garryowen/Munster)
Conor Carey (Ballymena/Ulster)
Aaron Conneely (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Andrew Conway (Blackrock College/Leinster)*
David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)*
Peter du Toit (UCD/Leinster)
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Dominic Gallagher (Dublin University/Ulster)
Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster) - Provincial regular
JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Iain Henderson (Queen's University/Ulster)
Paddy Jackson (DungannonUlster)
Michael Kearney (Clontarf/Leinster)
Alex Kelly (UCD/Leinster)
Brendan Macken (Blackrock College/Leinster)*
Kieran Marmion (UWIC/Exile)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Eoin McKeon (Galwegians/Connacht)
James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)*
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Tiernan O'Halloran (Galwegians/Connacht)*
Daniel Qualter (Buccaneers/Connacht)
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)

2010 - 16/26 (61%)
Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Denis Buckley (Corinthians/Connacht)
Patrick Butler (Shannon/Munster)
Bryan Cagney (UCC/Munster)
Andrew Conway (Blackrock/Leinster)
John Cooney (UCD/Leinster)
David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)
Eoin Griffin (Corinthians/Connacht)
Brian Hayes (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Michael Heaney (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Darren Hudson (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Brendan Macken (Blackrock/Leinster)
Stewart Maguire (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Ben Marshall (UCD/Leinster)
James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)
David McSharry (UCD/Leinster)
Jordi Murphy (Blackrock/Leinster)
David O'Callaghan (UCC/Munster)
Jack O'Connell (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Tiernan O'Halloran (Galwegians/Connacht)
Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Noel Reid (UCD/Leinster)
Rhys Ruddock (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster

2009 12/26 (46%)

Andrew Burke (Garryowen/Munster)
Shane Gahan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Matthew Healy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Michael Keating (Clontarf/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Ian McKinley (UCD/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Ronan O'Mahony (Garryowen/Munster)
Eamonn Sheridan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonny Shiels (Queen's University/Ulster)
Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster)

Mark Flanagan (UCD/Leinster)
Adam Macklin (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Paddy McAllister (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
David McGregor (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Michael Noone (Seapoint/Leinster)
David O'Callaghan (UCC/Munster)
Jack O'Connell (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) (capt)
Rhys Ruddock (Millfield School/Exiles)
Ciaran Ruddock (Neath/Exiles)
Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Thomas Sexton (Old Belvedere/Leinster)


2008 10/26 (39%)

Stephen Archer (UCC/Munster)
Ben Barclay (UCD/ Leinster)
Stephen Douglas (Ballymena/Ulster)
Michael Entwistle (Ballymena/Ulster)
Kieran Essex (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Jason Harris-Wright (Greystones/Leinster)
Conor Higgins (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paul Karayiannis (Queen's University/Ulster)
Patrick Mallon (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Ian Nagle (UCC/Munster)
David Nolan (Galwegians/Connacht)
Paul Ryan (Blackrock College/Leinster) (capt)
James Sandford (Queen's University/Ulster)
Eoin Sheriff (Lansdowne/Leinster)

Eoin O'Malley (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Cleary (Greystones/Leinster)
Chris Cochrane (Queen's University/Ulster)
Martin Dufficy (Dublin University/Leinster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
David Moore (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Niall Morris (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Ian Porter (Queen's University/Ulster)
Sean Scanlon (UCC/Munster)
Eamonn Sheridan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jamie Smith (Ballymena/Ulster)

Going by the numbers above you'd expect maybe one or two more to get pro contracts from the 2012 batch, which is encouraging. That 2010 squad was something else!

Below I've listed those that I think have played HC for their province and those that have picked up an international cap. Again feel free to fill in the gaps.

Paddy Jackson (I think)
Andrew Conway
Craig Gilroy
Eoin Griffin
Tiernan O'Halloran
Rhys Ruddock
Simon Zebo
Nevin Spence
Dominic Ryan
David Kearney
Ian Madigan
Conor Murray
Paddy McAllister
David O'Callaghan
Peter O'Mahony
Stephen Archer
Jason Harris-Wright (no longer contracted I think)
Eoin O'Malley not sure on him....
Niall Morris (gone to Leicester)
Jamie Smith (not 100% on him, where is he now?)

So that is 20 HC players and 5 internationals (I'd almost count Madigan, Ryan, Conway and Griffin as nailed on future internationals too). 13 backs, 7 forwards.

So is this output good enough for professional rugby in Ireland to sustain itself? 5 internationals in the last 5 years? The guys in the 2008 team would be 23/24 now and should really be pushing on and making a name for themselves at this stage in their career.

Is the lack of professional teams holding these guys back? Or are they not good enough? Is it the central contract system that keeps older more experienced players at home that is keeping them out of squads?

Interested in your thoughts:D

CIARAN_BOYLE

padraig.od wrote: »

I love the under 20s. The possibilities are endless!

From what people are saying on the U-20 6N thread and from what I've seen myself the consensus is that most from Henderson Hanrahan Conan McGrath Gilsenan Layden Farrell Jackson will all make it (by make it I mean get a pro contract) (yes I know some of these guys might have contracts already but none are regular first choice with their provinces). So thats 8 of the 23 (35% of the squad) named for the final 6 Nation match this season.

I've had a trawl through the news archives and pulled out the squads for the Junior RWC from 2008 to 2011 (would love to see 2007, 2006 and 2005 U21 squads if anyone can find them). Unfortunately they don't list position as I'd be interested in where our underage props are disappearing to.

I've highlighted those that I *think* have picked up development/pro contracts in Ireland or are contracted abroad. Feel free to point out where I'm wrong, or players that I missed. I'm not familiar with the Connacht academy so apologies Connacht fans. Do any names stick out of guys that were expected the be the next big thing but haven't fulfilled their potential?

I'm interested in what % of guys who are elite at under age level make it in the pro game.... I'd also be interested in names that didn't make the elite under age squad but have come through for their provinces anyway. Some of the names overlap, so I've doubled counted them so, say, Jackson is in this years batch and last years so he is counted twice.

2011 - 11/26 (42%)

Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Finlay Bealham (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) Connacht subacademy
Andrew Boyle (UCD/Leinster)* Leinster academy
Conor Carey (Ballymena/Ulster) Ulster academy
Aaron Conneely (Galway Corinthians/Connacht) Connacht academy
Peter du Toit (UCD/Leinster) Sharks Academy in SA
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) Leinster Academy
Michael Kearney (Clontarf/Leinster) Connacht professional 10 connacht caps including 3 HEC caps
Alex Kelly (UCD/Leinster) Leinster academy
Kieran Marmion (UWIC/Exile) Connacht academy
Eoin McKeon (Galwegians/Connacht) Connacht academy 5 Connacht caps
Daniel Qualter (Buccaneers/Connacht) Connacht academy
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster) Leinster academy

2010 - 16/26 (61%)
Denis Buckley (Corinthians/Connacht) academy in Connacht doing well will get pro deal next year
John Cooney (UCD/Leinster) pro in Leinster 5 leinster caps 14 A caps
Brian Hayes (Cork Constitution/Munster) Still in Munster Academy
Darren Hudson (St. Mary's College/Leinster) Still in Leinster academy has had a few games this season
Ben Marshall (UCD/Leinster) Still in Leinster academy
Jack O'Connell (Lansdowne/Leinster) Still in Leinster academy
Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster) Still in Munster academy


2009 12/26 (46%)
Michael Keating (Clontarf/Leinster) professional in Doncaster
Ian McKinley (UCD/Leinster) retired due to injury
Ronan O'Mahony (Garryowen/Munster) Munster academy

Adam Macklin (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) pro in Ulster
Jack O'Connell (Lansdowne/Leinster) in Leinster academy likely to get full contract for next season
Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster) in Munster academy
Ciaran Ruddock (Neath/Exiles) still in Leinster academy
Thomas Sexton (Old Belvedere/Leinster) pro in Leinster


2008 10/26 (39%)

Paul Ryan (Blackrock College/Leinster) (capt) had a pro deal but retired due to injury


Jason Harris-Wright (no longer contracted I think) Bristol

Some info for you nice thread btw I think a lot of those still in academies could make it so I listed them too

irishbucsfan

Jamie Smith plays for Dragons now.

Tbh most of those players are still involved in.academies or pro teams.

bilston

Just a couple of pedantic points.

I'm pretty sure Adam Macklin is on at least a development contract at Ulster if not a full one, he's also played in the HEC.

I don't think Eoin O'Malley has been capped by Ireland. Did David Kearney get off the bench against Wales? I can't actualy remember!

You should be able to find the earlier squads on the news arcive at irishrugby.ie going back to the early 2000s.

padraig.od

padraig.od wrote: »

2011 - 26/26 (100%)

Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) - Ulster
Finlay Bealham (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) - Connacht
Andrew Boyle (UCD/Leinster) - Leinster
Shane Buckley (Garryowen/Munster) - Munster
Conor Carey (Ballymena/Ulster) - Ulster
Aaron Conneely (Galway Corinthians/Connacht) - Connacht
Andrew Conway (Blackrock College/Leinster)* - Leinster
David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)* - Leinster
Peter du Toit (UCD/Leinster) - Sharks
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) - Leinster
Dominic Gallagher (Dublin University/Ulster)
Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster) - Provincial regular
JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster) - Munster
Iain Henderson (Queen's University/Ulster) - Ulster
Paddy Jackson (DungannonUlster) - Ulster
Michael Kearney (Clontarf/Leinster) - Connacht
Alex Kelly (UCD/Leinster) - Leinster
Brendan Macken (Blackrock College/Leinster)* - Leinster
Kieran Marmion (UWIC/Exile) - Connacht
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster) - Ulster
Eoin McKeon (Galwegians/Connacht) - Connacht
James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)* - Ulster
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)* - Leinster
Tiernan O'Halloran (Galwegians/Connacht)* - Connacht
Daniel Qualter (Buccaneers/Connacht) - Connacht
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster) - Leinster

2010 - 24/26 (92%)
Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) - Ulster
Denis Buckley (Corinthians/Connacht) - Munster
Patrick Butler (Shannon/Munster) - Munster
Bryan Cagney (UCC/Munster)
Andrew Conway (Blackrock/Leinster) - Leinster
John Cooney (UCD/Leinster) - Leinster
David Doyle (UCD/Leinster) - Leinster
Eoin Griffin (Corinthians/Connacht) - Connacht
Brian Hayes (Cork Constitution/Munster) - Munster
Michael Heaney (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Darren Hudson (St. Mary's College/Leinster) - Leinster
Brendan Macken (Blackrock/Leinster) - Leinster
Stewart Maguire (Old Belvedere/Leinster) - Connacht
Ben Marshall (UCD/Leinster) - Leinster
James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster) - Ulster
David McSharry (UCD/Leinster) - Connacht
Jordi Murphy (Blackrock/Leinster) - Leinster
David O'Callaghan (UCC/Munster) - Munster
Jack O'Connell (Lansdowne/Leinster) - Leinster
Tiernan O'Halloran (Galwegians/Connacht) - Connacht
Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster) - Munster
Noel Reid (UCD/Leinster) - Leinster
Rhys Ruddock (UCD/Leinster) (capt) - Leinster
Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster) - Leinster
Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster) - Ulster
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster - Munster

2009 20/26 (77%)

Andrew Burke (Garryowen/Munster)
Shane Gahan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Matthew Healy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) - Leinster
Michael Keating (Clontarf/Leinster) - Donacster
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) - Leinster
Ian McKinley (UCD/Leinster) - retired due to freak eye injury - capped at Leinster
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) - Munster
Ronan O'Mahony (Garryowen/Munster) - Munster
Eamonn Sheridan (Lansdowne/Leinster) - Leinster
Jonny Shiels (Queen's University/Ulster)
Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster) - Ulster
Mark Flanagan (UCD/Leinster) - Leinster
Adam Macklin (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) - Ulster
Paddy McAllister (Ballynahinch/Ulster) - Ulster
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) - Leinster
David McGregor (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Michael Noone (Seapoint/Leinster) - Donacaster
David O'Callaghan (UCC/Munster) - Munster
Jack O'Connell (Lansdowne/Leinster) - Leinster
Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster) - Munster
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) (capt) - Munster
Rhys Ruddock (Millfield School/Exiles) - Leinster
Ciaran Ruddock (Neath/Exiles) - Leinster
Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster) - Leinster
Thomas Sexton (Old Belvedere/Leinster) - Leinster


2008 14/26 (53%)

Stephen Archer (UCC/Munster) - Munster
Ben Barclay (UCD/ Leinster)
Stephen Douglas (Ballymena/Ulster)
Michael Entwistle (Ballymena/Ulster)
Kieran Essex (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Jason Harris-Wright (Greystones/Leinster) - Leinster capped, went to Bristol - apparently released?
Conor Higgins (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paul Karayiannis (Queen's University/Ulster)
Patrick Mallon (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Ian Nagle (UCC/Munster) - Munster
David Nolan (Galwegians/Connacht) - Connacht
Paul Ryan (Blackrock College/Leinster) (capt) - Leinster capped, retired from pro rugby
James Sandford (Queen's University/Ulster)
Eoin Sheriff (Lansdowne/Leinster) - Leinster
Eoin O'Malley (Old Belvedere/Leinster) - Leinster
Conor Cleary (Greystones/Leinster)
Chris Cochrane (Queen's University/Ulster) - Ulster
Martin Dufficy (Dublin University/Leinster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) - Leinster
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) - Leinster
David Moore (Blackrock College/Leinster) - Connacht
Niall Morris (Blackrock College/Leinster) - Leinster capped, now at Leicester
Ian Porter (Queen's University/Ulster) - Ulster
Sean Scanlon (UCC/Munster) - Munster
Eamonn Sheridan (Lansdowne/Leinster) - Leinster
Jamie Smith (Ballymena/Ulster) - Ulster capped, now at Newport-Gwent Dragons

great thread / post
Edited above with players still involved in pro rugby.

irishbucsfan

Emmet of the 2011 group there both Doyle and Gallagher are still involved.

Doyle playing for Leinster A and is in the Leinster academy at some level. Dom Gallagher just got quite badly injured playing for Ulster but he's rated very highly up there.


Edit: there are more but I'm stuck in traffic so can't look at it properly!

From 08, Scanlon, Moore, Cochrane and Nolan all still playing at provincial level. Cochrane just scored for Ulster... He's that blondey winger chap.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Emmet of the 2011 group there both Doyle and Gallagher are still involved.

Doyle playing for Leinster A and is in the Leinster academy at some level. Dom Gallagher just got quite badly injured playing for Ulster but he's rated very highly up there.

didn't realise he'd signed up for Ulster. I've seen him play maybe 10/12 times for DUFC over the past 2 seasons. He's one of the few natural opensides that I've managed to see come through the age groups

will edit above

irishbucsfan

And Tom Sexton is still playing. Had an injury plagued year but has played for Leinster A this year. I'm sure he's capped at full provincial level.

GerM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And Tom Sexton is still playing. Had an injury plagued year but has played for Leinster A this year. I'm sure he's capped at full provincial level.

Yup, he is capped at senior level. Played yesterday for Leinster A too.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Emmet of the 2011 group there both Doyle and Gallagher are still involved.

Doyle playing for Leinster A and is in the Leinster academy at some level. Dom Gallagher just got quite badly injured playing for Ulster but he's rated very highly up there.


Edit: there are more but I'm stuck in traffic so can't look at it properly!

From 08, Scanlon, Moore, Cochrane and Nolan all still playing at provincial level. Cochrane just scored for Ulster... He's that blondey winger chap.

Apart from that I think that's about right.

Whatever happened to Cagney?

I remember Andrew Burke was very highly rated and then never came through.

ormond lad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Apart from that I think that's about right.

Whatever happened to Cagney?

I remember Andrew Burke was very highly rated and then never came through.

Burke was offered contracts by munster but didnt want to turn pro. Is still playing UBL with munsters
Cagneys playing UBL with Cons

Amazotheamazing

Michael Noone is over with Doncaster.

GerM

Is Burke the lad who didn't want to move AIL club and put some noses out of joint, OL? It was said on MF that he wanted to complete his time in UCC rather than head to one of the big Limerick clubs. Might be getting my wires crossed here and thinking of someone else!

shaungil

Mikey Sherlock full back last year Year 1 Leinster Academy injured all season.

ormond lad

GerM wrote: »

Is Burke the lad who didn't want to move AIL club and put some noses out of joint, OL? It was said on MF that he wanted to complete his time in UCC rather than head to one of the big Limerick clubs. Might be getting my wires crossed here and thinking of someone else!

Think you are correct, think he was asked to play with YM but he stayed playing with College

padraig.od

Deleted User wrote: »

great thread / post
Edited above with players still involved in pro rugby.

Good man, that's far more comprehensive than my guess work above. So it looks like the majority of U20 pick up development contracts or involved with their provincial academies at one stage or another, thats not surprising really. 100% of last years team for example.

The earliest list I could find (2008) has the lowest numbers still involved with pro rugby at 53%. Was it a bad crop that year or is the case that as the years go by the numbers involved drop out of the academy/ or don't make it as professionals? And if we had earlier squads would the % decrease?

Bilston - can't remember if Dave Kearney got a cap so I'll take him off the list. Same as EOM.

So of the players listed we have 3 internationals, one of whom would be considered for a start if we named an injury free squad. (I'm being a little unfair on Ruddock & POM but there are better players ahead of them at international level I think)

Rhys Ruddock
Conor Murray
Peter O'Mahony

I would love to see the 2004 - 2007 squads to get a number of those that have been capped and played HC. Names like Healy, SOB etc. would stand out.

(Whats the story with Du Toit? Is he South African?)

ormond lad

padraig.od wrote: »

I would love to see the 2004 - 2007 squads to get a number of those that have been capped and played HC. Names like Healy, SOB etc. would stand out.

From 2008 there was only an u20 junior world cup. Before that there was an u19 and u21 world cups so some players will have made 1 of these squads and others will have made both

bamboozle

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Michael Noone is over with Doncaster.

As is Michael Keating

Sherlock and Furlong are both coming back from long term injuries, both underage for the 20's this season.

padraig.od

ormond lad wrote: »

From 2008 there was only an u20 junior world cup. Before that there was an u19 and u21 world cups so some players will have made 1 of these squads and others will have made both

What time of the year were the tournaments played? I can't find anything on the irishrugby site.

ormond lad

padraig.od wrote: »

What time of the year were the tournaments played? I can't find anything on the irishrugby site.

Im not sure if they were played at the same time of year every year but the u19 world cup in 2007 was played in Belfast and played in april. This is the comps wiki page

padraig.od

I've picked out a few U 21 6 Nations squads from 2005 - 2007.

This team played Wales in 2007 - Luke Fitz was injured so didn't start.

2007 (14/22 - 64%)
15 - Felix Jones Seapoint/Leinster
14 - Shane Monahan Dublin University/Leinster
13 - Darren Cave Belfast Harlequins/Ulster
12 - Aidan Wynne Buccaneers/Connacht
11 - Keith Earls Thomond/Munster
10 - Ian Keatley UCD/Leinster
9 - Paul O'Donohoe UCD/Leinster
1 - David Millard NEC Harlequins/Exiles
2 - Richard Sweeney St. Mary's College/Leinster
3 - Jamie Hagan Greystones/Leinster
4 - Conor McInerney UCD/Leinster
5 - Andrew Browne Galwegians/Connacht
6 - Thomas Anderson Dungannon/Ulster
7 - David Pollock Captain QUB/Ulster Pollock had to retire, was a smashing player by all accounts.
8 - Sean O'Brien UCD/Leinster

Replacements:
16 - Ger Slattery Young Munster/Munster
17 - Ruaidhri Murphy Lansdowne/Leinster (is this the fella in Oz?)
18 - Neilus Keogh UCC/Munster
19 - Tommy O'Donnell UL Bohemians/Munster
20 - David Drake Ballymena/Ulster
21 - Niall O'Connor Belfast Harlequins/Ulster
22 - Kyle Tonnetti Blackrock College/Leinster


This is the 2006 team named to play France

2006 (16/22 72%)

15. Fionn Carr (Blackrock College)
14. Peter Durcan (Galwegians)
13. Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins)
12. Conan Doyle (Garryowen) Is he still involved with Munster?
11. Matthew Williams (Bristol Shoguns / Hartpury College)
10. Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College)
9. Paul Marshall (Ballynahinch)

1. Darragh Hurley (UCC)
2. Stuart Philpott (Belfast Harlequins) (CAPTAIN)
3. Paul Doran-Jones (Dublin University) Traitor!
4. Daniel Touhy (Gloucester / Hartpury College)
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne)
6. Ross Noonan (UCC)
7. Ejike Uzoigwe (Hartpury College)
8. Billy Holland (UCC)

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin (Shannon)
17. Callum Black (Worcester Warriors / Hartpury College)
18. David McGowan (Buccaneers)
19. Sean O'Brien (UCD)
20. Duncan Williams (UCC)
21. Tom Gleeson (Cork Constitution)
22. Fergus McFadden (UCD)

2005 team that played Italy

2005 (9/22 - 40%)

15) Mark Kettyle (Belfast Harlequins)
(14) Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins)
(13) Tom Gleeson (UCC)
(12) Andrew Trimble (Ballymena)
(11) Paul McKenzie (Belfast Harlequins)
(10) Gareth Steenson (Dungannon) (Captain)
(9) Cillian Willis (UCD)
(1) Michael Diffley (Buccaneers)
(2) Joseph Merrigan (Corinthians)
(3) John Andress (Belfast Harlequins)
(4) Lewis Stevenson (Belfast Harlequins)
(5) Mark Melbourne (Garryowen)
(6) Brett McNamee (Northampton)
(7) Anthony Kavanagh (Garryowen) (
8) Stephen Ferris (Dungannon)

Replacements:

(16) Stuart Philpott (Saracens)
(17) Eamonn Bracken (Buccaneers) (
(18) Trevor Richardson (Buccaneers)
(19) Chris Henry (Malone)
(20) David O'Leary (UCC)
(21) Barry Keeshan (Cork Constitution)
(22) Kieran Geraghty (London Irish)

There doesn't seem to be much of a pattern - varies from year to year.

padraig.od

padraig.od wrote: »

14 - Shane Monahan Dublin University/Leinster
12 - Aidan Wynne Buccaneers/Connacht
4 - Conor McInerney UCD/Leinster - Played for Ospreys but unfortunately had to retire after knee problems

three adjustments. Consistent throughout each year to be honest, that's a very impressive conversion rate from underage to being in the mix at provincial levels.

jm08

2004 U21 world cup squad
Ireland Under 21 coach Mark McDermott will take a 22 strong squad to Scotland for pre-World Cup warm-up games against Scotland and the Scotland Barabrians.

The Ireland U21 squad from which the team and replacements to play an international against Scotland U21's prior to the Scotland Barbarians game on Saturday May 22nd at Murrayfield Scotland kick off 12.45hrs is as follows;

Forwards (12): Declan Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins), Denis Fogarty (Cork Constitution), David Gannon (Blackrock College), Conor Geoghegan (UCD), Jamie Heaslip (DU), Oisin Hennessy (Dungannon), Neil McComb (Dundee HSFP), David O'Brien (Old Belvedere), Brendan O'Connor (Cork Constitution), Shane O'Connor (Cork Constitution), John Wickham (Clontarf), Keith Doyle (UCD).

Backs (10): Tommy Bowe (QUB), Andrew Finn (Dolphin), Michael Glancy (Loughborough University), John Hearty (Blackrock College), Richard Lane (UCC), Breiffne O'Donnell (UL Bohemians), Tomas O'Leary (Cork Constitution), Robbie Shaw (London Wasps), Gareth Steenson (QUB), Glen Telford (Dungannon)

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/10385.php

Matches are here:
http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/index.php?includeref=3012&season=2004-2005&team=1660


U19 Matches 2004 are here:
http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/index.php?includeref=3012&season=2004-2005&team=1825

2005 U21s - world cup squad

** The Ireland Under-21 squad to take part in the IRB Under-21 World Cup in Argentina is as follows:

Forwards: John Andress (Belfast Harlequins), Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon), Michael Diffley (Buccaneers), Stephen Ferris (Dungannon), Chris Henry (Malone), Anthnony Kavanagh (Garryowen), Ronan Loughney (Galwegians), Gary Maxwell (Dungannon), Kevin McLaughlin (UCD), Mark Melbourne (Garryowen), Joseph Merrigan (Corinthians), Ross Noonan (UCC), Stuart Philpott (Saracens), Trevor Richardson (Buccaneers).

Backs: Conan Doyle (Garryowen), Gerry Hurley (Garryowen), Paul Hurley (UCC), Mark Kettyle (Belfast Harlequins), Ross McCarron (UCD), Paul McKenzie (Belfast Harlequins), Daniel Riordan (Corinthians), Jonathon Sexton (St. Mary's College), Greg Stafford (Lansdowne), Gareth Steenson (Dungannon) (Capt), Andrew Trimble (Ballymena), Cillian Willis (UCD).

Management:

Coach: Mark McDermott Assistant Coach: Niall Malone Manager: David Haslett Doctor: Eanna Falvey Physiotherapist: Tara O'Meara Masseur: Regina Flanagan Fitness Advisor: Brad Harrington Technical Advisor: Nigel Carolan Video Analyst: George Murray Baggage Master: John O'Hagan


Matches here: http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/index.php?includeref=3012&season=2005-2006&team=1660


World cup squad 2006
IRELAND U-21 SQUAD (IRB U-21 World Championship, Auvergne, France):

Forwards (14):
Callum Black (Worcester)
Sean Cronin (Shannon)
Paul Doran Jones (Dublin University)
Billy Holland (UCC)
Daragh Hurley (UCC)
Diarmuid Laffan (Blackrock College RFC)
David McGowan (Buccaneers)
Ross Noonan (UCC)
Sean O'Brien (UCD)
Stuart Philpott (Belfast Harlequins) (captain)
David Pollock (Queens University)
David Ryan (Highfield)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne)
Dan Tuohy (Hartpury College/Gloucester)

Backs (12):
Fionn Carr (Blackrock College RFC)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins)
Conan Doyle (Garryowen)
Peter Durcan (Galwegians)
Tom Gleeson (Cork Constitution)
Kieran Hallet (Bedford Blues)
Ian Hanley (UL Bohemians)
Paul Marshall (Ballynahinch)
Fergus McFadden (UCD)
Jonathon Sexton (St. Mary's College)
Duncan Williams (UCC)
Matthew Williams (Bristol)


matches here: http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/index.php?includeref=3012&season=2006-2007&team=1660

bilston

padraig.od wrote: »

I've picked out a few U 21 6 Nations squads from 2005 - 2007.

This team played Wales in 2007 - Luke Fitz was injured so didn't start.

2007 (14/22 - 64%)
15 - Felix Jones Seapoint/Leinster
14 - Shane Monahan Dublin University/Leinster
13 - Darren Cave Belfast Harlequins/Ulster
12 - Aidan Wynne Buccaneers/Connacht
11 - Keith Earls Thomond/Munster
10 - Ian Keatley UCD/Leinster
9 - Paul O'Donohoe UCD/Leinster
1 - David Millard NEC Harlequins/Exiles
2 - Richard Sweeney St. Mary's College/Leinster
3 - Jamie Hagan Greystones/Leinster
4 - Conor McInerney UCD/Leinster
5 - Andrew Browne Galwegians/Connacht
6 - Thomas Anderson Dungannon/Ulster
7 - David Pollock Captain QUB/Ulster Pollock had to retire, was a smashing player by all accounts.
8 - Sean O'Brien UCD/Leinster

Replacements:
16 - Ger Slattery Young Munster/Munster
17 - Ruaidhri Murphy Lansdowne/Leinster (is this the fella in Oz?)
18 - Neilus Keogh UCC/Munster
19 - Tommy O'Donnell UL Bohemians/Munster
20 - David Drake Ballymena/Ulster
21 - Niall O'Connor Belfast Harlequins/Ulster
22 - Kyle Tonnetti Blackrock College/Leinster


This is the 2006 team named to play France

2006 (16/22 72%)

15. Fionn Carr (Blackrock College)
14. Peter Durcan (Galwegians)
13. Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins)
12. Conan Doyle (Garryowen) Is he still involved with Munster?
11. Matthew Williams (Bristol Shoguns / Hartpury College)
10. Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College)
9. Paul Marshall (Ballynahinch)

1. Darragh Hurley (UCC)
2. Stuart Philpott (Belfast Harlequins) (CAPTAIN)
3. Paul Doran-Jones (Dublin University) Traitor!
4. Daniel Touhy (Gloucester / Hartpury College)
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne)
6. Ross Noonan (UCC)
7. Ejike Uzoigwe (Hartpury College)
8. Billy Holland (UCC)

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin (Shannon)
17. Callum Black (Worcester Warriors / Hartpury College)
18. David McGowan (Buccaneers)
19. Sean O'Brien (UCD)
20. Duncan Williams (UCC)
21. Tom Gleeson (Cork Constitution)
22. Fergus McFadden (UCD)

2005 team that played Italy

2005 (9/22 - 40%)

15) Mark Kettyle (Belfast Harlequins)
(14) Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins)
(13) Tom Gleeson (UCC)
(12) Andrew Trimble (Ballymena)
(11) Paul McKenzie (Belfast Harlequins)
(10) Gareth Steenson (Dungannon) (Captain)
(9) Cillian Willis (UCD)
(1) Michael Diffley (Buccaneers)
(2) Joseph Merrigan (Corinthians)
(3) John Andress (Belfast Harlequins)
(4) Lewis Stevenson (Belfast Harlequins)
(5) Mark Melbourne (Garryowen)
(6) Brett McNamee (Northampton)
(7) Anthony Kavanagh (Garryowen) (
8) Stephen Ferris (Dungannon)

Replacements:

(16) Stuart Philpott (Saracens)
(17) Eamonn Bracken (Buccaneers) (
(18) Trevor Richardson (Buccaneers)
(19) Chris Henry (Malone)
(20) David O'Leary (UCC)
(21) Barry Keeshan (Cork Constitution)
(22) Kieran Geraghty (London Irish)

There doesn't seem to be much of a pattern - varies from year to year.

The only addition to that is that Paul McKenzie from the 2005 side played a bit for Ulster. I think he went to Exeter while they were still a Championship club. I'm not sure where he is now though.

bilston

jm08 wrote: »

2004 U21 world cup squad
Ireland Under 21 coach Mark McDermott will take a 22 strong squad to Scotland for pre-World Cup warm-up games against Scotland and the Scotland Barabrians.

The Ireland U21 squad from which the team and replacements to play an international against Scotland U21's prior to the Scotland Barbarians game on Saturday May 22nd at Murrayfield Scotland kick off 12.45hrs is as follows;

Forwards (12): Declan Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins), Denis Fogarty (Cork Constitution), David Gannon (Blackrock College), Conor Geoghegan (UCD), Jamie Heaslip (DU), Oisin Hennessy (Dungannon), Neil McComb (Dundee HSFP), David O'Brien (Old Belvedere), Brendan O'Connor (Cork Constitution), Shane O'Connor (Cork Constitution), John Wickham (Clontarf), Keith Doyle (UCD).

Backs (10): Tommy Bowe (QUB), Andrew Finn (Dolphin), Michael Glancy (Loughborough University), John Hearty (Blackrock College), Richard Lane (UCC), Breiffne O'Donnell (UL Bohemians), Tomas O'Leary (Cork Constitution), Robbie Shaw (London Wasps), Gareth Steenson (QUB), Glen Telford (Dungannon)

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/10385.php

That 2004 side reached the U21 World Cup final losing to NZ. They beat Australia in the Semi Final. IIRC they did it mostly without Tommy Bowe who got injured the Q/F and was replaced in the squad by Andrew Trimble.

Given that, it's a bit of a surprise that only 3 players have played for Ireland (4 if you include Trimble).

padraig.od

Deleted User wrote: »

three adjustments. Consistent throughout each year to be honest, that's a very impressive conversion rate from underage to being in the mix at provincial levels.

When did the different provincial academies get up and running? Early 2000s?

Hype710

Cave, Pollock and O' Brien making the U21 World Cup squad in '06 despite being U19 is pretty impressive.

irishbucsfan

padraig.od wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

three adjustments. Consistent throughout each year to be honest, that's a very impressive conversion rate from underage to being in the mix at provincial levels.

When did the different provincial academies get up and running? Early 2000s?

They really came on at different standards at different times.

They've been improving the whole time and that shows now in how many players they are converting to professional standard.

Amazotheamazing

bilston wrote: »

That 2004 side reached the U21 World Cup final losing to NZ. They beat Australia in the Semi Final. IIRC they did it mostly without Tommy Bowe who got injured the Q/F and was replaced in the squad by Andrew Trimble.

Given that, it's a bit of a surprise that only 3 players have played for Ireland (4 if you include Trimble).

I don't think it's that odd tbh, the jump is massive from u21/u20 to even the lower reaches of the Irish International side. you need so many things to go right for you to make it.

Tox56

Good thread, those 2005-2007 squads have produced so much talent, which obviously bodes well for more recent squads.

Just look at the players the Grand Slam winning 2007 team have produced. Looks good for 2012.

ormond lad

padraig.od wrote: »

When did the different provincial academies get up and running? Early 2000s?

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They really came on at different standards at different times.

They've been improving the whole time and that shows now in how many players they are converting to professional standard.

There was a national academy before the provinces each had their own academy.
Munsters started in 2004 http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/490.php

DeDoc

good thread.

I posted something a few months ago on the old planet-rugby bored (now gone so I can't find it) comparing progression of Irish players from U20 to senior pro level to that in England. It is pretty dramatic how many more come through their system and how much more quickly. Now we can tee-hee-hee about it fairly easily - they're gym monkeys at an early age, they've 12 ordinary teams etc, but I do think we can (and are more recently) learning from them in terms of bringing young players through - it also helps them that there are so many options out there for younger players in terms of pro and semi-pro teams

irishbucsfan

I remember having a look around the leicester academy a couple of years ago and thinking it was superior to anything in Ireland.

At this point though I'd be confident that our academies are among the best in Europe. It's making a huge difference as well these days.

its_phil

Peter Durcan is playing with Montaban in France in Federale 1 playing out-half.

Turned down deal in Connacht after graduating (had a great game vs Boks pre WC) and went to La Rochelle then to US Limoges (just missed out on promotion twice).

Happy out in France from what I hear.

liam12989

wonder would durcan at outhalf be any better than NOC,Jarvis or nakora?

bilston

padraig.od wrote: »

2011 - 11/26 (42%)

Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Finlay Bealham (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Andrew Boyle (UCD/Leinster)*
Shane Buckley (Garryowen/Munster)
Conor Carey (Ballymena/Ulster)
Aaron Conneely (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Andrew Conway (Blackrock College/Leinster)*
David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)*
Peter du Toit (UCD/Leinster)
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Dominic Gallagher (Dublin University/Ulster)
Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster) - Provincial regular
JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Iain Henderson (Queen's University/Ulster)
Paddy Jackson (DungannonUlster)
Michael Kearney (Clontarf/Leinster)
Alex Kelly (UCD/Leinster)
Brendan Macken (Blackrock College/Leinster)*
Kieran Marmion (UWIC/Exile)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Eoin McKeon (Galwegians/Connacht)
James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)*
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Tiernan O'Halloran (Galwegians/Connacht)*
Daniel Qualter (Buccaneers/Connacht)
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)

2010 - 16/26 (61%)
Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Denis Buckley (Corinthians/Connacht)
Patrick Butler (Shannon/Munster)
Bryan Cagney (UCC/Munster)
Andrew Conway (Blackrock/Leinster)
John Cooney (UCD/Leinster)
David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)
Eoin Griffin (Corinthians/Connacht)
Brian Hayes (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Michael Heaney (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Darren Hudson (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Brendan Macken (Blackrock/Leinster)
Stewart Maguire (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Ben Marshall (UCD/Leinster)
James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)
David McSharry (UCD/Leinster)
Jordi Murphy (Blackrock/Leinster)
David O'Callaghan (UCC/Munster)
Jack O'Connell (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Tiernan O'Halloran (Galwegians/Connacht)
Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Noel Reid (UCD/Leinster)
Rhys Ruddock (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster

2009 12/26 (46%)

Andrew Burke (Garryowen/Munster)
Shane Gahan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Matthew Healy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Michael Keating (Clontarf/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Ian McKinley (UCD/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Ronan O'Mahony (Garryowen/Munster)
Eamonn Sheridan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonny Shiels (Queen's University/Ulster)
Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Mark Flanagan (UCD/Leinster)
Adam Macklin (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Paddy McAllister (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
David McGregor (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Michael Noone (Seapoint/Leinster)
David O'Callaghan (UCC/Munster)
Jack O'Connell (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) (capt)
Rhys Ruddock (Millfield School/Exiles)
Ciaran Ruddock (Neath/Exiles)
Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Thomas Sexton (Old Belvedere/Leinster)


2008 10/26 (39%)

Stephen Archer (UCC/Munster)
Ben Barclay (UCD/ Leinster)
Stephen Douglas (Ballymena/Ulster)
Michael Entwistle (Ballymena/Ulster)
Kieran Essex (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Jason Harris-Wright (Greystones/Leinster)
Conor Higgins (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paul Karayiannis (Queen's University/Ulster)
Patrick Mallon (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Ian Nagle (UCC/Munster)
David Nolan (Galwegians/Connacht)
Paul Ryan (Blackrock College/Leinster) (capt)
James Sandford (Queen's University/Ulster)
Eoin Sheriff (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Eoin O'Malley (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Cleary (Greystones/Leinster)
Chris Cochrane (Queen's University/Ulster)
Martin Dufficy (Dublin University/Leinster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
David Moore (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Niall Morris (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Ian Porter (Queen's University/Ulster)
Sean Scanlon (UCC/Munster)
Eamonn Sheridan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jamie Smith (Ballymena/Ulster)

Since our GS winning 2007 U20 side we've had the '08, '09, '10, '11 and now '12 U20 sides and guess how many internationals those teams have produced?

Well the magic number is 3. Conor Murray, Rhys Ruddock and Peter O'Mahony are the only players from the last five years of U20 rugby to have gone on to play for Ireland and Ruddock has one cap off the bench in an emergency when there weren't any Irish back rowers left standing.

Current age of players from each of those age groups.

2008 - 22-24 (0)
2009 - 21-23 (3)
2010 - 20-22 (1)*
2011 - 19-21 (0)
2012 - 18-20 (0)

*Rhys Ruddock played in both 2009 and 2010 so he's counted twice above.

So that's three test players from 5 years of U20 rugby (well 4 strictly speaking 1/2 years as we're still in the 2012 season).

Here are some and maybe all players aged 24 and under who have been capped by the other "home" nations in that time. These are just based on the 2012 6Ns squad of these countries so there could be others that weren't involved in the 6Ns.

SCOTLAND (9)
Richie Gray
David Denton
Richie Vernon
Ruaridh Jackson
Duncan Weir
Matt Scott
Jack Cuthbert
Lee Jones
Stuart Higg

WALES (11)
Ryan Bevington
Justin Tipuric
Lloyd Williams
Jonathan Davies
Scott Williams
Alex Cuthbert
George North
Leigh Halfpenny
Lou Reed
Rhys Webb
Aaron Shingler

ENGLAND (11)
Dan Cole
Alex Corbisiero
Courtney Lawes
Ben Morgan
Joe Simpson
Ben Youngs
Owen Farrell
Manu Tuilagi
Jordan Turner Hall
Chris Ashton
Charlie Sharples

IRELAND (3)
Rhys Ruddock
Conor Murray
Peter O'Mahony

Blackheath

bilston wrote: »

Since our GS winning 2007 U20 side we've had the '08, '09, '10, '11 and now '12 U20 sides and guess how many internationals those teams have produced?

Well the magic number is 3. Conor Murray, Rhys Ruddock and Peter O'Mahony are the only players from the last five years of U20 rugby to have gone on to play for Ireland and Ruddock has one cap off the bench in an emergency when there weren't any Irish back rowers left standing.

Current age of players from each of those age groups.

2008 - 22-24 (0)
2009 - 21-23 (3)
2010 - 20-22 (1)*
2011 - 19-21 (0)
2012 - 18-20 (0)

*Rhys Ruddock played in both 2009 and 2010 so he's counted twice above.

So that's three test players from 5 years of U20 rugby (well 4 strictly speaking 1/2 years as we're still in the 2012 season).

Here are some and maybe all players aged 24 and under who have been capped by the other "home" nations in that time. These are just based on the 2012 6Ns squad of these countries so there could be others that weren't involved in the 6Ns.

SCOTLAND (9)
Richie Gray
David Denton
Richie Vernon
Ruaridh Jackson
Duncan Weir
Matt Scott
Jack Cuthbert
Lee Jones
Stuart Higg

WALES (11)
Ryan Bevington
Justin Tipuric
Lloyd Williams
Jonathan Davies
Scott Williams
Alex Cuthbert
George North
Leigh Halfpenny
Lou Reed
Rhys Webb
Aaron Shingler

ENGLAND (11)
Dan Cole
Alex Corbisiero
Courtney Lawes
Ben Morgan
Joe Simpson
Ben Youngs
Owen Farrell
Manu Tuilagi
Jordan Turner Hall
Chris Ashton
Charlie Sharples

IRELAND (3)
Rhys Ruddock
Conor Murray
Peter O'Mahony

This is a sad statistic

irishbucsfan

It's a good thing were focusing on ranking points

Hype710

For the record, Richie Vernon, Lou Reed, Aaron Shingler, Dan Cole and Chris Ashton are all born in 1987, same year as Healy, Earls, Fitzgerald, O' Brien, Cave, Jones and Keatley who are all capped by Ireland.

Hype710

And our 1988s were a terrible year in comparison with others. Eoin O' Malley was their best player and he's not far off a cap. Plenty of the 89s and 90s will be capped.

Tox56

Hype710 wrote: »

And our 1988s were a terrible year in comparison with others. Eoin O' Malley was their best player and he's not far off a cap. Plenty of the 89s and 90s will be capped.

Nagle has been notoriously well hyped, he might get there eventually.

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's a good thing were focusing on ranking points

Isn't it just? Remind me what ranking we are again...

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Isn't it just? Remind me what ranking we are again...

I believe we're in 8th place, battling away tooth and nail to prevent ourselves being passed out by the rugby playing behemoth that is Tonga.

This really is a high-point for Irish rugby, when fear of being bettered by a pacific nation prevents us our incompetent national management from forming any sort of long-term plan. What an utterly shambolic organisation.

bilston

Hype710 wrote: »

For the record, Richie Vernon, Lou Reed, Aaron Shingler, Dan Cole and Chris Ashton are all born in 1987, same year as Healy, Earls, Fitzgerald, O' Brien, Cave, Jones and Keatley who are all capped by Ireland.

Well take them out then but the stats are still pretty telling.

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I believe we're in 8th place, battling away tooth and nail to prevent ourselves being passed out by the rugby playing behemoth that is Tonga.

This really is a high-point for Irish rugby, when fear of being bettered by a pacific nation prevents us our incompetent national management from forming any sort of long-term plan. What an utterly shambolic organisation.

The thing is the IRFU are obsessed about our ranking yet they don't subscribe to the four year world cup cycle in terms of rebuilding.

goreyguy

Sherriff is with Saracens now and signed up for next year too.

LemonPudding

[QUOTE=So that's three test players from 5 years of U20 rugby (well 4 strictly speaking 1/2 years as we're still in the 2012 season).

Here are some and maybe all players aged 24 and under who have been capped by the other "home" nations in that time. These are just based on the 2012 6Ns squad of these countries so there could be others that weren't involved in the 6Ns.

SCOTLAND (9)
Richie Gray
David Denton
Richie Vernon
Ruaridh Jackson
Duncan Weir
Matt Scott
Jack Cuthbert
Lee Jones
Stuart Higg

WALES (11)
Ryan Bevington
Justin Tipuric
Lloyd Williams
Jonathan Davies
Scott Williams
Alex Cuthbert
George North
Leigh Halfpenny
Lou Reed
Rhys Webb
Aaron Shingler

ENGLAND (11)
Dan Cole
Alex Corbisiero
Courtney Lawes
Ben Morgan
Joe Simpson
Ben Youngs
Owen Farrell
Manu Tuilagi
Jordan Turner Hall
Chris Ashton
Charlie Sharples

IRELAND (3)
Rhys Ruddock
Conor Murray
Peter O'Mahony[/QUOTE]

If true - and don't know if it is. That means Munster has supplied 2 players, Exiles 1 and Ulster/Connacht/Leinster 0. That can't be right?:eek:

Tox56

LemonPudding wrote: »

If true - and don't know if it is. That means Munster has supplied 2 players, Exiles 1 and Ulster/Connacht/Leinster 0. That can't be right?:eek:

Does Rhys Ruddock not count as Leinster?

LemonPudding

Tox56 wrote: »

Does Rhys Ruddock not count as Leinster?

Played for the exiles, went to school in UK. Played Wales 18s&19s. Didn't come through the normal Leinster pathway - schools/Youths etc so probably.

Tox56

LemonPudding wrote: »

Played for the exiles, went to school in UK. Played Wales 18s&19s. Didn't come through the normal Leinster pathway - schools/Youths etc so probably.

It's the speed the players are introduced that is the issue, teammates of those guys will get a chance eventually, people like D Kearney, Madigan, Nevin Spence, Dominic Ryan, Mark Flanagan, David O'Callaghan, Zebo, Conway, O'Halloran, Griffin should be given a chance at some point, most of them at least.

The quality is there but they need to be veterans before they even get a look in.

Amazotheamazing

Before comparing ourselves to Wales or Scotland it's worth remembering their regions/districts are fairly dysfunctional. The promote young players faster because they have to. This feeds into the national teams. Take Nagle or Conway as examples, they are trying to break into the best teams in Europe at club level, whereas they'd probably stroll into several other Pro12 teams already.