Bought sub standard fuel - court?

sincere113

I bought sub standard diesel a month ago from a well known supplier. When I was filing the car they were also filling their tanks.

Anyway a few miles after filling up the car stalled and wouldn't run right. I had the car recovered and cutting a long story short I had some fuel drained and I have 4 failed fuel injectors. The drained diesel has a similar colour as bio-fuel or olive oil. I reported my problems to the garage and they said to provide them with a sample of the fuel and they would get it tested - that was a month ago. Now when I call them they are telling me that they don't have the report of the results back yet. Its a month since I gave them a sample of fuel.

I have made my own enquiries and I can get a sample of fuel tested and a report supplied for €250. It takes them 1-2 days to test the fuel. I also have a report from the diesel injection specialists stating that the injector failure is down to sub-standard fuel. In their opinion the damage done is similar to that of water being in the fuel and that the failure of the injectors doesn't take long after coming in to contact with water.

Does anyone know of any case being brought to court where the plaintiffs claim was successful for sub standard fuel sale? I'm unsure as to which way to go.....Any opinions?

pred racer

Tbh, get your sample tested! World+dog put alot of failures down to dodgy diesel. Im not saying this one isnt, but until you get it tested you cannot proceed.

GavMan

Best to speak to a solicitor really.

They can find out if there any cases pending. Also, a solicitors letter might expedite their response to you

Oh, and get yours tested too!!!

sincere113

Picture of a sample of the diesel.

ironclaw

That looks like its the dirt and grit from the bottom of the tank. But definitely not right.

Playing devils advocate, you may have a hard time proving that their diesel was at fault. And subsequently that it was their diesel at all in your tank, seeing as you had left and then the damage occurred. Also when it was drained, you should have had someone from the garage on hand to verify it. To be fair to them, that jar could be from anywhere.

Was your tank absolutely empty when you arrived at the station? You couldn't prove that and it creates reasonable doubt as to the fuel that caused the problem.

Did you take a sample from the pump on the day and seal it? Giving one to the garage and keeping one yourself? Thats the only way you could possibly link the two.

I believe you OP, don't get me wrong. But I'd stop spending money now. Repair the damage and move on. I'd put money on you would probably lose the case or at the very best go 50:50 on damages. Its a terrible situation to be in but in the eyes of the law, I think they have reasonable doubt.

Jimdagym

A friend of mine filled up with diesel and two miles down the road the car crapped itself. He phoned the petrol station who immediately arranged for the car to be towed and he then spent the whole weekend saying how the garage was at fault and would have to replace the car. Turns out the car had ingested its swirl flaps :rolleyes:.

FAir play to the petrol station though. OP, you will have to get the sample tested and go from there. Its your only hope.

MidlandsM

sincere113 wrote: »

Picture of a sample of the diesel.

feck ,thats a BIG URINE SAMPLE!:p

djimi

ironclaw wrote: »

That looks like its the dirt and grit from the bottom of the tank. But definitely not right.

Playing devils advocate, you may have a hard time proving that their diesel was at fault. And subsequently that it was their diesel at all in your tank, seeing as you had left and then the damage occurred. Also when it was drained, you should have had someone from the garage on hand to verify it. To be fair to them, that jar could be from anywhere.

Was your tank absolutely empty when you arrived at the station? You couldn't prove that and it creates reasonable doubt as to the fuel that caused the problem.

Did you take a sample from the pump on the day and seal it? Giving one to the garage and keeping one yourself? Thats the only way you could possibly link the two.

I believe you OP, don't get me wrong. But I'd stop spending money now. Repair the damage and move on. I'd put money on you would probably lose the case or at the very best go 50:50 on damages. Its a terrible situation to be in but in the eyes of the law, I think they have reasonable doubt.

I suppose the OP has the fact that the car drove perfectly well into the petrol station, then conked out just after leaving. It could be argued that the dodgy fuel was put into the car prior to entering the station, but honestly how likely is it that to have happened. If the OP has evidence from the mechanic that dodgy fuel caused the problem, and can prove that they purchased fuel in the station just prior to the car breaking down, then Id say they have a reasonable case.

How that translates to legal terms I dont know though. Im sure to anyone looking at the evidence it is pretty obvious that it was from the station in question that he got the dodgy fuel, but it would take a solicitor to tell them whether or not its enough to proceed with taking it further.

djimi

OP can you find anyone else who had the same problem you had? If the fuel caused your car to break down then chances are it might have caused damage to somoene elses car also.

sincere113

This is a sample of the fuel and I didn't remove all of it from the car. The car isn't fixed yet and still has the same diesel in it. I got a sample of diesel from the same pump the day after. I asked them if they wanted a sample and they refused. The sample I took the day after is fairly clear and I have 5 litres of it.

The car had a little under a 1/4 tank left in it. I understand in one sense that why I get the second sample - but the chemical anaysis of the diesel from the car and the sample I took a day later will not match because I already had fuel in the car with has obviously mixed with the diesel I put in it.

It makes it nearly impossible in that case to prove without doubt that the fuel I got that day was substandard and in effect they can sell any old fuel without repercussion.

The report that I got from the injector test house states that the damage caused to my injectors is not damage done over time but because of substandard fuel being put in the car not long before failure. In their opinion the contaminant in my diesel would cause failure within miles not over a prolonged period.

I know its a tricky one though.

Jimdagym

sincere113 wrote: »

This is a sample of the fuel and I didn't remove all of it from the car. The car isn't fixed yet and still has the same diesel in it. I got a sample of diesel from the same pump the day after. I asked them if they wanted a sample and they refused. The sample I took the day after is fairly clear and I have 5 litres of it.

The car had a little under a 1/4 tank left in it. I understand in one sense that why I get the second sample - but the chemical anaysis of the diesel from the car and the sample I took a day later will not match because I already had fuel in the car with has obviously mixed with the diesel already in it.

It makes it nearly impossible in that case to prove without doubt that the fuel I got that day was substandard and in effect they can sell any old fuel without repercussion.

The report that I got from the injector test house states that the damage caused to my injectors is not damage done over time but because of substandard fuel being put in the car not long before failure. In their opinion the contaminant in my diesel would cause failure within miles not over a prolonged period.

I know its a tricky one though.

But if the fuel was bad enough to knock out all 4 of your injectors, surely the car before and after you at the same pump would have also encountered problems?

djimi

Jimdagym wrote: »

But if the fuel was bad enough to knock out all 4 of your injectors, surely the car before and after you at the same pump would have also encountered problems?

I thought the same (hence my question above). It sounds like a very serious issue and I find it hard to believe it was only your car that was affected.

sincere113

I asked them and they said that no else complained. I don't think they would tell me though even if they did. By doing that it would be an admission of guilt from them and a disaster PR wise. If the local newspaper found out they may as well just close the station.

If I get a sample tested and it is dirty diesel and they have paper work to say that they got their tanks filled at the same time and I have an independant report saying that the damaged injectors is cause by dirt/water then I think that I have a chance of recovering loses. Thats just my opinion though.

djimi

sincere113 wrote: »

I asked them and they said that no else complained. I don't think they would tell me though even if they did. By doing that it would be an admission of guilt from them and a disaster PR wise. If the local newspaper found out they may as well just close the station.

If I get a sample tested and it is dirty diesel and they have paper work to say that they got their tanks filled at the same time and I have an independant report saying that the damaged injectors is cause by dirt/water then I think that I have a chance of recovering loses. Thats just my opinion though.

Have you got anything to prove the fact that the sample that you took from their pump is actually from their pump?

The burden of proof on this one is on you to show that the diesel came from their pumps.

sincere113

I've got the receipt and witnessed by one of their staff. Its noted on the report that I made to them.

Jimdagym

sincere113 wrote: »

I've got the receipt and witnessed by one of their staff. Its noted on the report that I made to them.

And did anyone witness you bring this sample unmolested all the way to the lab for testing?

sincere113

Jimdagym wrote: »

And did anyone witness you bring this sample unmolested all the way to the lab for testing?

I didn't send anything to be analysed yet. I told them that I was intending on getting the fuel analysed independantly as they were taking so long to get it tested. I have informed them of my intentions and asked them if they want to witness fuel being taken. The person in this supplier that I'm dealing with said that she needs to get legal advise before answering.

If they have sent a sample to be tested and I get my own test done then the chemical analysis will match in both samples.

wes31

This is why i never fill up at a station that is getting there tanks filled i heard stories before about the crap and sludge in the forecourt tanks been churned up when there been filled. And its then passed through the pumps in use at the time.

sincere113

wes31 wrote: »

This is why i never fill up at a station that is getting there tanks filled i heard stories before about the crap and sludge in the forecourt tanks been churned up when there been filled. And its then passed through the pumps in use at the time.

Yes I agree and am kicking myself now. But if I can get the supplier to give me evidence that they were filling the tanks at the same time I got my diesel this would add strength to my case. Surely they will have a document saying what time/date they got a fuel drop? The problem is getting that information from them. I wonder if there is any legal mechanism for getting that info?

xzodia

you could ask for the CC TV footage from the time and day you got the fuel and if your lucky might show the tanker being filled

Dadda31

Hi Sincere.

That sample has water in it and probably dirt from the tank in the forecourt. The DERV should be clear.

Most forecourts don't clean their fuel tanks at all let alone properly. There are a number of companies being taken to court now over this and once you have the report you will be ok to get action taken.

Theres a company in Cork called Scarletts Fuel Solutions that are very good at looking at this kind of thing. Its what they specialise in and they work as an independant tester for a lot of companies. If you check them out online they might be able to help you.

Dadda31

Just reread the post you have there. the fuel companies will not stand by your case at all as they are the ones supplying the fuel therefore they wont want to know anything about it in case its their deliveries.

This is happening an awful lot too by the way. Not just you having a bit of bad luck.

Happy hunting

Dadda31

I didn't send anything to be analysed yet. I told them that I was intending on getting the fuel analysed independantly as they were taking so long to get it tested. I have informed them of my intentions and asked them if they want to witness fuel being taken. The person in this supplier that I'm dealing with said that she needs to get legal advise before answering.

If they have sent a sample to be tested and I get my own test done then the chemical analysis will match in both samples.[/QUOTE]

They wont match at all i expect. their legal team will tell them not to sample, It will expose them and cost them business. As mentioned in the last post if you talk to any supplier 'THEY HAVE NO PROBLEMS' as they cannot afford to be seen to have them but it is well known that they do. the biodiesel is causing them fierce hassle as well as lack of maintenance.