How "friend" you are with your IT support supplier AND how much trust you can have !?

rolion

Hi,

Just thinking to how much trust you can pay to your current IT support guy,consultant or company !?

Of course,the question has to be addressed to four different categories of,so called,end users:

-home users,that they always know somebody that can fix "my computer" and,by making a call his best buddy ,he is around to try latest fix or swap the component(s);

-small business,that they might have somebody internal to run IT support and backup,hoping that IT guy knows what is doing and praying that they cut charges of other IT support call out;

-medium sized business,that might have a junior on-site while having contracts (maintenance or per call out charges) with a proper setup IT Support partner ;

-large business,way out of my question...possible !!!


So,if your home computer breaks down,can you trust the chap or repair shop beside your local shopping centre !? Can you bring him the PC and hope for a fair deal and honest quote ,diagnose and repair price and time !??

What about a business...can they afford an external IT support to be their trusted partner,leaving IT day to day running in their hands !??

What exactly an end user expects from a support /repair provider !?
What exactly an IT Support Provider expects from this cooperation and,possible win-win situation !?
How we differentiate from a good support and a bad support !??

PS
i'm asking this Q after speaking with another IT Consultant,complaining that business is slow and he's chasing a payment of €150 for a call out done to a customer.The reason the customer does not wants to pay is that ...how he justify the charge for one hour of work in her office !!! He mentioned that while driving to collect laptop,backing data,reinstall Windows,apply Service Packs,get CDs and serial number and activations for Line of Business Apps,restore data,drive back to site,install on the network,training with users for "new" laptop...we know that is suming up at a full day very easy !!!


Also,few days ago,a plumber got to my house to service my 'utility' machine (never thought how hard is without it...) and after few mintes,confirmed that main PCB gone,it will cost me €400 to replace.Said no thanks and issued a payment for ... €90 ! Can i argue with the guy's charges and highly qualification that he holds !???



Also,plenty of online ads for " repairing your PC,laptop for €30" !!!
How in the name of DOS' ROOT can he cover his costs with that charge !??
I can't and i know maybe few other people that they cannot do it for that money ! What he's doing different than other people that cannot get out to customer site for less than €120/€440 per hour !? (got a quote to check status of my client copier at €140 from local and €600 per hour from erox !!!!)


PPS
If the IT market,if the IT world keep advancing and progressing at this rate,at this type ,i reckon,we,the IT Support SysAdmins/SysEngs will be left with no other option that to get training as...Gas Installers or ... dunno !!!

Torqay

Well, recession/depression is everywhere, we all have to get by somehow, don't we?

As for you plumber, you should ditch his business card. TBH, I'd never charge for a diagnose. Didn't do it in the "good times" either. I'd tell you what's wrong with it and what it costs to repair, if I get the job. More often than not, I'm getting tipped for my efforts and it earned me a good degree of loyalty from my customers.

What I don't do anymore is selling hardware. No more stocking hard drives, memory, PSUs and other spares. Need anything, I'll gladly advise where to get the best deal, but that's it, lost too much money on that.

U_Fig

my IT supported is Google..no matter what's wrong a solution is to be found somewhere on the web..now in saying over the past number of years I've developed a good knowledge of the most common errors and scenarios and I have a good knowledge of most computer and technology related stuff.. so I help out my mates with their problems mostly free with the odd donation accepted (I never ask for payment, nor refuse payment either ) but I do charge for parts.

I occasionally do some IT support for my place of work but minor things they have a company but they charge €250 per call out and I only charge 2 hours extra in my wages.

I'm thinking of branching out to create a small business from my home... I could easily undercut the cost of any IT troubleshoot shop in my area by a good margin but mostly for something to do (i don't like being idle).

With any computer repair (the ones I have under warranty, or ones that I deem to be more hassle than it's worth) I always remove my HDD. I know how easy information can be obtained (even deleted info) so I don't take risks.. it's not that i don't trust people ( at the end of the day they are a business and "should" comply with business ethics. I'd rather not take chances with sensitive information. I say to people who give me a computer to fix "i will find out what's wrong with it and in doing so will probably find the source of the problem so if they don't want me to know then they can fix it themselves"

The main reason why people in IT support Businesses and computer repair shops chaarge as much as they do is well.
1) OVERHEADS: staff wages, Light and heat, Rent (a portion of all theses over heads adds to the cost of your support
2) PROFIT: At the end of the day the goal of any business is to make a profit so they have to first cover their cost then make money after that thus higher prices
3) THEY CAN: most people are in general "computer illiterate" (yes that's changing constantly as more becoming aware) but in general a computer now is such a big part of alot of people's lives that they are willing to pay over the odds for a quick fix instead of going out and performing some troubleshooting themselves.

fionny

Ill format / reinstall windows on anyones computer for 50euro if they meet me somewhere with me and have all the relevant disk...

Personally id never use a business as a home user I dont believe they have any "specialist" knowledge that cannot be found online etc... and I feel the prices they charge are OTT.

A format and reinstall of windows practically looks after itself these days.. big whoop.

From a business perspective there is alot more going on, they must support group policies, server backups, UPS units etc.... its alot more specialist and if the IT infrastructure of a business goes it could result in that company losing money.

rolion

Torqay wrote: »

What I don't do anymore is selling hardware. No more stocking hard drives, memory, PSUs and other spares. Need anything, I'll gladly advise where to get the best deal, but that's it, lost too much money on that.

I confess that sometimes,a 5-10% on top of the purchase cost of the hardware is too much and presents a risk of losing the deal !
I reckon ,soon,i will sell hardware at cost price,delviered directly to customer and make my wages from designing ,implementing and training/troubleshouting the solution !!

Torqay

fionny wrote: »

Ill format / reinstall windows on anyones computer for 50euro if they meet me somewhere with me and have all the relevant disk...

And how does that work out for ya?

fionny wrote: »

Personally id never use a business as a home user I dont believe they have any "specialist" knowledge that cannot be found online etc...

Maybe so, but tracking down this knowledge can be a pain and quite time consuming.

fionny wrote: »

and I feel the prices they charge are OTT.

There is still a lot of scam going on in the trade alright.

fionny

Well I dont do it but if someone on boards or something was in need or a friend of a friend etc...

Torqay

I mean the "have all the relevant disks" part.

fionny

Ya i hear ya :P luckily most computers these days have the recovery partitions on them which eliminates the need.

rolion

Mention that there is no intention on personal offence to anyone here or working in IT !!!

This kind of replyes and behaviour has brought us here...these kind of professional ethics,rules,conduit and customer feedback has fcuked up the IT market !
There is no any kind of barrier to entry to market...anyone with a minimum knowledge is labelled Computer Repair Technician,or maybe Engineer or even Consultant and possible tomorrow,i'll see Architects...
No problem with little competion but...from old professional meetings,scheduled calls and nice figures wages and charges,these day to reinstall OS for less than dunno,my taxable expenses for a day !??
Who is losing here:the good support company (laying off people that then go home and open 'big' repair shop) or end user that complains about poor quality of service,data lost during repair and high charges !?

I read an article somewhere here: to charge almost or near to nothing for repair is like providing free service !!!


How can an end user puts his/their IT device in the hands of an unknown or friend of friend' hands and skills !???
How can a business trust an IT support to do what is supposed to do !?
How can a business sign a contract with IT supplier but there is only one way communication,from support provider'accounts department to client account's department !??


I remember good old times,when company i worked for was selling PCs for 1000-1500 irish pounds,making a good 30-50 percent margins and people was buying them and paying for support !!!
These days,i know progress...these days,i sell a PC for €400,make a barely 10% = €40 and the end user expects 3 years warranty,phone support and to get fixed reinstalled OS for free ,if possible after business hours !!!
Good for end users ,customers but not for other side of the ... cable !!


I reckon soon,the Computer Repair shop will be only a parts/components swap place,where you go and buy/swap a new "desktop" ,bring it home,plug to network and resume your work like nothing happened while IT support sings... Fcuk the cloud...


I'm online for comments...

Duggy747

Loyality is a big thing. The average home user are very weary of small businesses and are in the mindset that the likes of big places like PC World are the only areas they can get their stuff repaired / get good information.

I don't charge for diagnosis and do a no fix / no charge policy. Gaining a customer's respect can be of huge benefit as they'll sing your praises and send more people your way.

I do be shocked at the insane prices some businesses do be charging customers for the most basic of problems. One girl came into me after having been charged €150 after a format where none of her stuff was backed up (Very common thing alot of places do, wiping without backing up)

Close to €200 on screen repairs is another shocker. I do stick a reasonable percentage on the repair item I get in but I don't charge nowhere near insane prices like that.

People are still very ignorant of IT but majority of them do appreciate honesty.

rolion

Duggy747 wrote: »

I don't charge for diagnosis and do a no fix / no charge policy. Gaining a customer's respect can be of huge benefit as they'll sing your praises and send more people your way.

Thanks and sorry for picking your good valid message...

i'm puzzled...why some people don't do free diagnosis !??
why do i have to pay 90 just to be told it cost me 400 !!????
why do we pay that charge !??

why IT doesn't charge that...charge !???
i mean...to keep the pace with latest certification is not coming free ? Is Microsoft or HP gives me free training and free tools and ... free time of my personal or business time !??
To get where you are now,you'll need good training,a good knowledge bag ,experience and hard/soft skills !!
Why in IT is different ... ???

Torqay

Duggy747 wrote: »

One girl came into me after having been charged €150 after a format where none of her stuff was backed up (Very common thing alot of places do, wiping without backing up)

I can relate to that. Had a very similar case only a few weeks ago, the lady has been charged 180 Euro for the installation of XP (SP1!!!) on her 9 yr old Dimesion 2400 (this particular company is in 'de business' for more than 10 years). No updates or drivers have been installed, and of course none of here documents were backed up.

The machine (2.4 GHz Northie P4 w 256 MB RAM) is worth maybe 20 quid at a boot sale, if that.

Really makes you feel sorry for people being so badly ripped off, no wonder people are driven into the arms of charlatans.

At least I was able to recover a great deal of her data. I then sold her a refurb Dimension 5150 (Pentium D, 3 GB RAM and ATI HD3450 graphics) for a total of 110 Euro, nothing fancy but light years ahead of what she had and it will keep her going for a while.

mach1982

Duggy747 wrote: »

Loyality is a big thing. The average home user are very weary of small businesses and are in the mindset that the likes of big places like PC World are the only areas they can get their stuff repaired / get good information.

honesty.

PC word is a joke , they have got a got a clue.

I was watching one the matrix movies the other night and one characters said that " people don't care how something works as along as it works"

With computers, people don't understand how much time it take to resolve issue , you got to troubleshoot the issue , and 99% what they think is the issue is not case.

150 to reinstall windows, on a few machine is not much. It usually that about 30 -45 mins to reinstall then another 15- 20 to set up everything,

Torqay

Duggy747 wrote: »

Loyality is a big thing.

I don't charge for diagnosis and do a no fix / no charge policy. Gaining a customer's respect can be of huge benefit as they'll sing your praises and send more people your way.

Amen to that.

fionny

Yup lots of companies just treat customers with disdain.

Duggy747

mach1982 wrote: »

I was watching one the matrix movies the other night and one characters said that " people don't care how something works as along as it works"

Definitely this.

Sometimes the customer doesn't understand why something like a universal charger can be priced at €20 while another is priced at €60. They don't understand the difference between quality and just want the thing to work, now! Only when their cheap product eventually dies do they realise what quality of product they've bought.

Sold a customer a universal charger, she didn't have the correct head put on it, went to PC World where they told her it was incompatible and I had just essentially flogged her a piece of shìt (a high quality universal charger, mind)

She came back in demanding a refund after PC World told her this AND sold her one of their own cheap chargers. She was basically regurgating whatever PC World had told her.

I showed her what she did wrong, showed that it worked on her laptop and sent her on her merry way, letting her know that she was conned / some inexperienced guy at PC World told her fibs.

rolion

Duggy747 wrote: »

She came back in demanding a refund after PC World told her this AND sold her one of their own cheap chargers. She was basically regurgating whatever PC World had told her.

I showed her what she did wrong, showed that it worked on her laptop and sent her on her merry way, letting her know that she was conned / some inexperienced guy at PC World told her fibs.

Sorry...what exactly went wrong here !???
Let's talk about your name,your voice,face,shop presentation,shop location,price,colour of your hair !??

HOW come an end user will go to your shop,asking for your services,get's what she asked for then...she feels betrayed and has to go to ... other shop !?? Does end user keeps going from shop to shop until finds soemthing that he/she likes the smell or colour of it!?

How do we differentiate ourselves compared with ...the others !??
Me compared to you AND/OR you compared to me !!

I can be in your shop or i can work in PCx !!

Torqay

Duggy747 wrote: »

Sold a customer a universal charger, she didn't have the correct head put on it, went to PC World where they told her it was incompatible and I had just essentially flogged her a piece of shìt (a high quality universal charger, mind)

She came back in demanding a refund after PC World told her this AND sold her one of their own cheap chargers. She was basically regurgating whatever PC World had told her.

I showed her what she did wrong, showed that it worked on her laptop and sent her on her merry way, letting her know that she was conned / some inexperienced guy at PC World told her fibs.

Well, there isn't really anything you can do about... just forget it then.

Ages ago when I was kid, there was a sign in the little barber shop in town, it read something like this:

"If you're happy with my service, tell others. If you're not, tell me!"

Funny how I remember it to this day.

_AVALANCHE_

U_Fig wrote: »

my IT supported is Google..no matter what's wrong a solution is to be found somewhere on the web

You won't find a solution to this...



Had that warning on startup with a new machine awhile back, I broke alot of stuff that was within arms reach (pens & stuff:rolleyes:) that week with frustration.

I would have happily paid for someone to troubleshoot that bitch.

WOOSA!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtjO8Nl6Mek

U_Fig

_AVALANCHE_ wrote: »

You won't find a solution to this...




WOOSA!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtjO8Nl6Mek

i have once before came across this issue

The first Google link led me to a thread which gave one possibly cause "installing a new driver without removing the old one can cause this"

turns out that was all that was wrong.

the best way I can see to avoid this is to get an Intel CPU with Nvidia GPU..

but seriously you're only taking into account some of my post.. I know that some issues mainly hardware based might not be able to be solved by a Google search but I pay for "Specialised IT support" as a absolute final option...I've taken laptops apart before going to a shop unless of course it's under warranty the remove HDD and on she goes for some new hardware