Household charge.... March deadline

NJS007

I am just really looking to get your feedback on the household charge.. As we all know, it is due to be paid by the end of the month and if I heard correctly on the radio today, that only 12% of households have paid..... And I believe they are going to figure out who had paid and who has not by the utility providers

What if we dont pay, realistically what can the government do.... Will they charge everyone the late payment fee or will the household charge be disbanded?

barrackali

There is no getting away with this charge, it will be enforced. We are billions in debt, what are you going to do when we have full blown property tax.

NJS007

barrackali wrote: »

There is no getting away with this charge, it will be enforced. We are billions in debt, what are you going to do when we have full blown property tax.

Unfortunately, I do realise that it needs to be paid and the uk haver bren paying the poll tax for years, but do you think you should post it before the deadline or not?

barrackali

NJS007 wrote: »

Unfortunately, I do realise that it needs to be paid and the uk haver bren paying the poll tax for years, but do you think you should post it before the deadline or not?

You should post it if you want to avoid fines/hassle.

zumi

Im one of the 88% who hasn't paid and I never will.
Im educated and I pay my taxes.
This tax is wrong wrong wrong.
I'll pass away someday long from now knowing we fought this and won.
Don't register don't pay.

Honestly!

NJS007 wrote: »

I am just really looking to get your feedback on the household charge.. As we all know, it is due to be paid by the end of the month and if I heard correctly on the radio today, that only 12% of households have paid..... And I believe they are going to figure out who had paid and who has not by the utility providers

What if we dont pay, realistically what can the government do.... Will they charge everyone the late payment fee or will the household charge be disbanded?

Despite Councillor Derek Mitchell's totalitarian calls for attachment to wages, the Government have NO such powers currently. Do not pay this charge and they will not pursue. Why? the last thing the Govt want is people on the streets over fines/court cases. Mass non-payment will be the majority showing they do not accept the charge, an acceptance that is required for it to be enforceable.

Michael Noonan said last night that Anglo bonholders will be paid €46bn in full, that is money that CAN be held back without IMF sanction. That is the answer to the supporters of this capitualtion to EU bankers when they ask you how the deficit can be funded.

We pay management fees from €300 to €1,500 and get zero services from the local authority. They even charged Charlesland residents €7000 for gritting the roundabout on the dual carriageway in Jan/Feb 2011!

No way I am paying this charge, absolutely not.

barrackali

Don't pay and see the consequences. I personally welcome annual property taxation, this is what is needed to prevent fools from creating another speculator led property boom.

This kind of progressive taxation is normal in other E.U countries.

rasper

barrackali wrote: »

Don't pay and see the consequences. I personally welcome annual property taxation, this is what is needed to prevent fools from creating another speculator led property boom.

This kind of progressive taxation is normal in other E.U countries.

There won't be a property boom here for a long time , why would anyone ever want to buy here for next 20 years , much better to rent while on housing list , this isn't progressive tax and I don't buy the everywhere else line that they are throwing around
Imagine I will have to pay it eventually as we're broke but gonna wait 12 months anyway as it's a small fine to retain my dignity.

barrackali

rasper wrote: »

There won't be a property boom here for a long time , why would anyone ever want to buy here for next 20 years , much better to rent while on housing list , this isn't progressive tax and I don't buy the everywhere else line that they are throwing around
Imagine I will have to pay it eventually as we're broke but gonna wait 12 months anyway as it's a small fine to retain my dignity.

It is a small fine atm but the gov are obliged to bring in this charge under the terms of the EU-IMF deal....there can be no wishing it away. Regarding your point on there being no property boom for the next twenty years........no more property booms are acceptable...not even in 20 years. Property is what got us in the hole we are in, annual property taxation will keep speculation to a minimum.

NJS007

Honestly! wrote: »

NJS007 wrote: »

I am just really looking to get your feedback on the household charge.. As we all know, it is due to be paid by the end of the month and if I heard correctly on the radio today, that only 12% of households have paid..... And I believe they are going to figure out who had paid and who has not by the utility providers

What if we dont pay, realistically what can the government do.... Will they charge everyone the late payment fee or will the household charge be disbanded?

Despite Councillor Derek Mitchell's totalitarian calls for attachment to wages, the Government have NO such powers currently. Do not pay this charge and they will not pursue. Why? the last thing the Govt want is people on the streets over fines/court cases. Mass non-payment will be the majority showing they do not accept the charge, an acceptance that is required for it to be enforceable.

Michael Noonan said last night that Anglo bonholders will be paid €46bn in full, that is money that CAN be held back without IMF sanction. That is the answer to the supporters of this capitualtion to EU bankers when they ask you how the deficit can be funded.

We pay management fees from €300 to €1,500 and get zero services from the local authority. They even charged Charlesland residents €7000 for gritting the roundabout on the dual carriageway in Jan/Feb 2011!

No way I am paying this charge, absolutely not.

Yeah I think that you are right and I dont think I will be paying either until they come a knockin....

& if I remember it correctly the fine is only €20 so the way I see it is that €100 is better off in my pocket for as long as possible..

zumi

The people will have their say and the scaremongering won't work. We are tired of being ignored, trampled on and we are pushing back and we will win.
If the government continues to push this it will be their downfall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXIIieaQf-w

Maggie the Kat

I can afford to pay the charge but on principle i refuse too. for the simple reason workers here are s highly taxed and yet we do not have first class services here. in some instances we have none. Ifr we had amazing services here like in places like Sweden i would be happy paying mopre taxes and this charge. But we have nothing. Its time for the people to wake up and refuse to pay this charge. Make a stand now. This charge is going to bailout tha banks and not on services. And its our children who will be paying it off for the next 30 or so years.
My father was recently ill, and does not have health cover. He was put on a waiting list and got an appointment dated June 2014. I would never leave him sick and scared. So i paid 250 Euro to get him seen privately. 250 euro and his appointment was changed to the following week.... its a joke. his app lasted all of 10 minutes. its a scandal. Dont even get me started on the insane prices of going to the dentist.

elaverty

http://nohouseholdtax.org/
Dont forget folks you can join the campaign here,,your 5euro will go to paying the expenses of the campaign for such things as Printing,maning the helpline,and towards a legal challenge should the case arise,,,remember if the goverment do persist with this and fineing people and bringing them to court,you will not be alone on the day,,there will be mass demonstrations outside the courthouses...the only way to beat this unfair tax is by Mass Non registeration,People Power......

Remember Dont Register,Dont Pay......Dont be bullied into paying for the greed of bankers and gambeling bondholders..

antoinolachtnai

The financial consequences of not paying are pretty severe. The fines don't end at 20 euros, they keep mounting up. You will have to pay, including fines, anyway when the house is sold.

If you are going to get involved in a protest, be sure that you can either afford to pay the fines and any legal fees if they do decide to collect before you sell, or you can get the protest organizers to agree to pay your costs.

elaverty

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The financial consequences of not paying are pretty severe. The fines don't end at 20 euros, they keep mounting up. You will have to pay, including fines, anyway when the house is sold.

If you are going to get involved in a protest, be sure that you can either afford to pay the fines and any legal fees if they do decide to collect before you sell, or you can get the protest organizers to agree to pay your costs.

Protest organisers wont commit to paying the fine for anybody,why would they,,The protest organisers as you call them are only adviseing people on what to do,,they are not telling them what to do,unlike the goverment...The Dont Pay campaign are well aware the ordinary people are smart and intelligent enough to make up there own mind on this issue and decide for themselves on wheather to pay this unfair tax or not..

antoinolachtnai

If someone is advising you to break the law, and they are not willing to take the responsibility for their advice, you need to consider carefully what their agenda is and whether you can afford to run up a bill in order for them to further their own ends.

Lantus

barrackali wrote: »

Don't pay and see the consequences. I personally welcome annual property taxation, this is what is needed to prevent fools from creating another speculator led property boom.

This kind of progressive taxation is normal in other E.U countries.

As it was in part an excess of money from property tax that predominantly led to massive uncontrolled growth and a boom I'm not sure how you can reasn further property taxation can prevent a boom?

It was an unregulated market, politics in bed with business believing that they could not only beat God at his own game but become him and surpass him and sheer greed that led us to the mess we are in (as well as whole host of other factors.) We valued our things much more than people.

The inefficiencies and waste and our corrupt systems that refuse to change are still in place today. In that regard nothing can ultimatley change until we change that FIRST and foremost.

elaverty

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

If someone is advising you to break the law, and they are not willing to take the responsibility for their advice, you need to consider carefully what their agenda is and whether you can afford to run up a bill in order for them to further their own ends.

If someone advises you to jump into a burning building and you do it,is that person responsible for the outcome..No there not...at the end of the day there is individual responsibility on what a individual does and they take the consequences based on there decision taken...

ebixa82

OP by all means don't pay the tax if you don't want to.

BUT be prepared to pay the fines!

I paid the charge yesterday, feel all the better for it.

100e is nothing compared to what is down the road!

3DataModem

The government ultimately don't need to collect too hard. When houses are sold or passed on in probate, the transaction won't complete without the tax and fines being paid... in full. Much better for the government to wait and let the fines accumulate and let time just bring the tax to them.

alibaba12

zumi wrote: »

Im one of the 88% who hasn't paid and I never will.
Im educated and I pay my taxes.
This tax is wrong wrong wrong.
I'll pass away someday long from now knowing we fought this and won.
Don't register don't pay.

I agree with this. If we pay 100 now you can be almost guaranteed it will be 1000 next year. They cant put everyone in jail. Take a stand and stop being the typical Irish who roll over and take any crap this government throws at us.

This tax is not a tax like the poll tax in the UK - at least they see the benefits of it (bins, common areas being maintained by council etc). We wont see any benefit from this.

Blizzard

We won't be paying. Paid a huge amount of stamp duty in 2004 and that, if applied to this ridiculous tax, should leave us another (at least) 15 years household tax free. Why aren't they off-setting the huge amounts of stamp duty to home-owning taxpayers? Are they just going to milk more funds out of us? I'd rather go to jail at this point. Why not charge all the bankers and builders and politicians who got us into this mess a 75% tax on all their savings and assets and that should allow us some breathing space?

I totally agree with alibaba12, what do we really get for paying this tax? We will still have to pay for our bins and many of us already pay a residents fee for the upkeep of our estates, so what exactly is this for? Stand together and DO NOT PAY!

RTE news just mentioned 85% of households haven't paid and someone commented that if a million households refrain from paying that the government will have no choice but to back down on this.

stevedublin

ebixa82 wrote: »

100e is nothing compared to what is down the road!

Another good reason not to pay the home tax.
This problem needs to be nipped in the bud before it gets out of control.
Don't register, don't pay!!!

donalg1

NJS007 wrote: »

I am just really looking to get your feedback on the household charge.. As we all know, it is due to be paid by the end of the month and if I heard correctly on the radio today, that only 12% of households have paid..... And I believe they are going to figure out who had paid and who has not by the utility providers

What if we dont pay, realistically what can the government do.... Will they charge everyone the late payment fee or will the household charge be disbanded?

No definitely wont be disbanded the Household charge will remain against your property until paid, this is going to be replaced by the Property tax which will be calculated using site valuations and will probably be collected in a different way to the household charge as self declaration hasnt worked for that.

silja

I paid. I am not happy with this charge, and the fact that my small one bed is paying the same as a huge mansion, but I live abroad and am renting the flat out and I don't want any hassle with the revenue.

Shannonsider

We bought our place in 2007 and are one of the lucky (or very unlucky one's) who are entitle to decent mortgage interest relief. So I am not going to jeopardise that by not paying 100.

handlemaster

3DataModem wrote: »

The government ultimately don't need to collect too hard. When houses are sold or passed on in probate, the transaction won't complete without the tax and fines being paid... in full. Much better for the government to wait and let the fines accumulate and let time just bring the tax to them.

I won't go along with that. At the next election the opposition will want to get into power which is natural. A great vote winner would the abolising of this tax.

handlemaster

NJS007 wrote: »

Unfortunately, I do realise that it needs to be paid and the uk haver bren paying the poll tax for years, but do you think you should post it before the deadline or not?

do they also pay stamp duty ?

Zamboni

Shannonsider wrote: »

We bought our place in 2007 and are one of the lucky (or very unlucky one's) who are entitle to decent mortgage interest relief. So I am not going to jeopardise that by not paying 100.

Why would MIS be in jeopardy from a non paying of a household charge?
Both of which operate through completely separate entities.

PatA

handlemaster wrote: »

do they also pay stamp duty ?

Yes, they do - and it's 3% on houses £250000 to £500000, so not a small sum.

Mikros

Not paying here.

I just opened an invoice for annual management fees of €1600. I pay for lights, cleaning, bins, grass cutting, insurance, water pumps and on and on to keep our development just about functioning.

We asked the local council to take in charge the common areas of the estate and were told basically not a chance.

I get no tax relief or benefit for paying to maintain my estate as opposed to the public purse maintaining it. Nor am I arguing for any relief. But given that is the case I cannot see the justification for paying an additional property charge of any amount.

flutered

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The financial consequences of not paying are pretty severe. The fines don't end at 20 euros, they keep mounting up. You will have to pay, including fines, anyway when the house is sold.

If you are going to get involved in a protest, be sure that you can either afford to pay the fines and any legal fees if they do decide to collect before you sell, or you can get the protest organizers to agree to pay your costs.

i take it by your post that you are a spokesperson for long phil, i live near jp mcmanus, he has to pay the same as me, i live near a council estate, but far away enough to enjoy life, the residents of the council estate do not have to pay, to mcmanus the hundred is not even chicken feed, what will i get for the hundred if i pay it zilch, i pay for water, i pay for bin collection, i have no street lighting, the roadway has not seen a council repair crew in ten years, you should be on to all officials to take a salary cut, then an expenses cut, as well as unvouched expenses they have a laundry allowance, telefone allowance, two yes two mobiles per year they can buy, then i am expected to survive on 193 euro per week, my income has been chopped a lot in recent years, as i cannot walk each and every chore requires someone to come in and do them, this costs money, last week i had to get my garden done, 100 euro the guy charged from 9.30am to 4.30pm. the interns should be working for the likes of me where they would come across a wide range of issues and have to learn to over come them this would give them better life skills than packing shelves for tesco.

3DataModem

handlemaster wrote: »

3DataModem wrote: »

The government ultimately don't need to collect too hard. When houses are sold or passed on in probate, the transaction won't complete without the tax and fines being paid... in full. Much better for the government to wait and let the fines accumulate and let time just bring the tax to them.

I won't go along with that. At the next election the opposition will want to get into power which is natural. A great vote winner would the abolising of this tax.

Quite possibly correct.

But you can be sure that it won't be retrospective. Tax doesn't work like that. If you dodge a tax that is later abolished, you are still liable.

The govt will collect at time of transfer, mark my words. Solicitors won't be able to close a conveyance without discharging any tax liability, same way they can't do it currently for Stamp Duty.

NJS007

handlemaster wrote: »

NJS007 wrote: »

Unfortunately, I do realise that it needs to be paid and the uk haver bren paying the poll tax for years, but do you think you should post it before the deadline or not?

do they also pay stamp duty ?

Don't know if they do or dont....
Interesting.....

snugglebear

We haven't paid it yet- bought our house in May 2010.
We could afford it but i'm worried that if we pay it will just keeping going up and up.
As an aside part of the reason I don't want to pay this is because I had to pay out €12k from my savings last year for CAT on the taxman on a house I inherited a one fifth share of. The house is still on the market but the tax I paid was based on the value of the house in 2009- my share was valued at €49k in 2009 - but now I will be lucky now to get back the tax amount I paid.
In other other words I just feel like I've paid enough tax and want to be left alone- never gonna happen though

Gingermagic

Stamp duty is also paid in the UK. Poll tax is not paid as they done away with it after the riots years ago. Then then renamed it to council tax and everyone has to pay this unless on benefits. Water rates and Council Tax are 2 of the houshold charges that everyone is supposed to pay no choice or its fine and prison....not so much now as there are no spaces in the prisons. However what they do do....and what the Irish gov will probably do is those who are on benefits and fail to pay, they take the money directly out of your benefits, you have no choice, the council and water rates companies can apply directly to the benefits agency and request a deduction in payments and you don't have a choice in the matter....

The one thing that the Irish Gov cannot do is imprison everyone who refuses to pay, but they will make someone pay for it.......When a Government lies consistently and then make demands of its people, this is what happens. Confusion disent and distrust.........

Readyhed

NJS007 wrote: »

I am just really looking to get your feedback on the household charge.. As we all know, it is due to be paid by the end of the month and if I heard correctly on the radio today, that only 12% of households have paid...

The government have repeatedly told that that a large number of properties are exempt from the tax ?? I know this is spin but On Vincent Browne last night someone made a very good point:

Anyone who is exempt still has to register to get the exemption. It seems reasonable that most people who are exempt will register so a good proportion of the 12% would be made up of these. The real percentage of people who have PAID might be substantially lower.

I really hope Irish People will walk the walk on this one as opposed to talking the talk as we have done in the past.

The answer to the question - what can they do? is a no brainer.

If it ends up a small minority the will pursue them like self rightious wild dogs.

If it ends up a majority they will worm their way out and try to save face.

Every politician knows that he cannot ignore the will of the people. They can cast doubt on opinion polls but they cannot cast doubt on a majority of people defying their bad law.

The only unknown is how many people will hold firm.

L1011

handlemaster wrote: »

do they also pay stamp duty ?

Yes. Not at the rates we paid in the boom but I believe its now actually higher for most houses.

barrackali

barrackali wrote: »

This kind of progressive taxation is normal in other E.U countries.

Whats also normal in other countries is no TV licence. Free bins "every day" Free medical.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats also normal in other countries is no TV licence. Free bins "every day" Free medical.

Most countries in Europe have a TV licence - often far higher than in Ireland and in the case of Germany you need a radio licence for each car also; require you to pay proper market rates for your bins (and fine you for not properly seperating the contents / washing recyclables); and "free" healthcare is funded by compulsary insurance that's FAR higher than PRSI is here.

Triangle

What gets me is the governments stance on this. Do they not realise they are there FOR the people of Ireland.
If the (majority of) people in Ireland do not want this levy/Tax then it should not go in.
They work for US not the other way round!

Edit - I believe we need a property Tax - but it needs to be brought in properly and they need to sort out the expenditure BEFORE more taxes.

MYOB

MYOB wrote: »

Most countries in Europe have a TV licence - often far higher than in Ireland and in the case of Germany you need a radio licence for each car also; require you to pay proper market rates for your bins (and fine you for not properly seperating the contents / washing recyclables); and "free" healthcare is funded by compulsary insurance that's FAR higher than PRSI is here.

I was living in spain and no TV licence is required. Bins were collected every day. Air-conditioning was subsidized. There is the population factor to take into consideration.

crusher000

Not paying. Maybe all the politicians that have flown all over the world for St. Patricks day could have a collection in the cities they're visiting to make up those of us whom refuse to pay.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

I was living in spain and no TV licence is required. Bins were collected every day. Air-conditioning was subsidized. There is the population factor to take into consideration.

Spain is not "most countries in Europe". Its also not the most solvent country to be comparing ourselves to.

They don't have a TV licence because they tax the commercial broadcasters directly for it instead. We aren't big enough to support enough commercial broadcasters for that to be possible.

Bins need to be collected more often in hot environments, ditto airconditioning (although I have no idea what you mean by "subsidised").

Gingermagic

Bins do need to be collected, and it used to be the job of the council, now that it is private firms, the government will have to get people to pay as they have probably made guarantees to the owners of these now very big business of collecting bins. And you guys are the one that are going to have to fulfill that.

I will remind you that when the "council tax" first came in it was very cheap.....now look

This link deal with Scotland...
http://www.fairview-property.com/tenants/council_tax_bands/

No much different for the rest of the UK

Now it is minimum £95.00 per month not year (which is 115 euro).....
I can catergorically guarantee that you household charge will go up and Quickly.....

If Irish citizens sleep walk into this one.....there will be no going back:(

rasper

Politicians will be begging us to pass the fiscal treaty in a few months , which is quiet likely to fail , I for one think thAt we may be better off with no access to the eu poisonous funds to pay back their banks , let the house of cards fall and the political gravy train derail, may be worse off short term but may be the only way Ireland can reform it's deeply rooted corruption of politicians , unions , ibec, etc

L1011

Gingermagic wrote: »

Bins do need to be collected, and it used to be the job of the council, now that it is private firms, the government will have to get people to pay as they have probably made guarantees to the owners of these now very big business of collecting bins. And you guys are the one that are going to have to fulfill that.

I will remind you that when the "council tax" first came in it was very cheap.....now look

This link deal with Scotland...
http://www.fairview-property.com/tenants/council_tax_bands/

No much different for the rest of the UK

Now it is minimum £95.00 per month not year (which is 115 euro).....
I can catergorically guarantee that you household charge will go up and Quickly.....

If Irish citizens sleep walk into this one.....there will be no going back:(

I don't think there's anyone who ISN'T expecting the property tax to be higher across the board when its introduced.