Freedom of speech?

Old Tom

Freedom of speech - do you think we have any?

We apparently enjoy a free speech, but at the same time there are lots of rules and regulations, there are organisations, governments and institutions telling us what we can and what we can't say.

I agree that in some cases could be good to block certain content, but in my opinion if we face repercussions for what we have said (ban on an internet forum as one of examples) - no matter what opinion we have expressed - it's not really a free speech anymore, is it?

It looks to me that the whole "free speech" thing is another myth that we are being fed with.

Freedom of speech is protected by Article 40.6.1 of the Irish constitution. However the article qualifies this right, providing that it may not be used to undermine "public order or morality or the authority of the State". Furthermore, the constitution explicitly requires that the publication of "blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter" be a criminal offence

as for an internet forum, no, you certainly don't have any here, and nobody told you that you did

Old Tom

bluewolf wrote: »

However the article qualifies this right, providing that it may not be used to undermine "public order or morality or the authority of the State". Furthermore, the constitution explicitly requires that the publication of "blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter" be a criminal offence

as for an internet forum, no, you certainly don't have any here, and nobody told you that you did

Without saying whether it's a good thing or not, I can't see any freedom here.

bluewolf wrote: »

as for an internet forum, no, you certainly don't have any here, and nobody told you that you did

Funny. I would have thought that the Irish Constitution applies to the internet forums in Ireland as much as to everything else.. I'm not an expert though.

Poor Uncle Tom

You forgot the full stop.......:p

minidazzler

Old Tom wrote: »

Without saying whether it's a good thing or not, I can't see any freedom here.


Funny. I would have thought that the Irish Constitution applies to the internet forums in Ireland as much as to everything else.. I'm not an expert though.

Boards.ie is a privately owned company and for that reason they can decide what can and what cannot be said on this website, as they are ultimately liable for everything posted.

Ellis Dee

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. Nothing ain't worth nothing, but it's free.

Kris Kristofferson

---

Seriously, we have hate laws for a reason, and there has to be some restriction on what people can say/call for on Internet forums. It's not so long since another Irish one had a comment calling for all Traveller women to be sterilised. The problem with things like that is that there are quite a few flakes willing to act on it, just like that Breivik nutter did in Oslo after he'd read enough Islamophobic shit on the Internet.:rolleyes::rolleyes:


You should learn never to use the word "freedom" without also at least thinking of the word "responsibility.";)

Immaculate Pasta

We can say anything we like, as long as it's not something that the man doesn't want us to say :cool:

Mint Sauce

Old Tom wrote: »

Freedom of speech - do you think we have any?

We apparently enjoy a free speech, but at the same time there are lots of rules and regulations, there are organisations, governments and institutions telling us what we can and what we can't say.

I agree that in some cases could be good to block certain content, but in my opinion if we face repercussions for what we have said (ban on an internet forum as one of examples) - no matter what opinion we have expressed - it's not really a free speech anymore, is it?

It looks to me that the whole "free speech" thing is another myth that we are being fed with.

Did you get a ban or infraction by any chance?

I jest.



But seriously, in the case of boards. They are a private company, and can be held liable or accountable for anything posted on its forums. So in this case, it is a myth.

_Gawd_

Our Constitutional writers substituted one State for another. We don't enjoy Freedom of Speech as is laid out in the United States Constitution because we are not free to speak against the Irish State. That's tyranny in every sense.

As for an internet forum - that's private property and the owners have the right to dictate the what you can and cannot do here.

kincsem

Old Tom
You have the right to stand in the rain outside the GPO and tell us you views on any topic you like: X factor; celebrity dancing on ice; drivers using mobile phones; pooper scoopers ...

Old Tom

irish-stew wrote: »

Did you get a ban or infraction by any chance?

Nope, I never got ban or infraction on boards.ie. I have never had any other problems here either. I enjoy using boards.ie and this thread is not intended against it at all.

I am also not talking about boards.ie specifically, "internet forums" refer to any forum on the Internet.

As for private companies and boards.ie (if you asked... :P ) - are they not supposed to set their rules and regulations in line with the Constitution? In example, someone wants to abuse a group of people or promote the nazi ideology - well there we go: let's set up a private company with our own rules and we can do whatever we want. I don't think it works that way.

EDIT: Actually - why isn't the poster responsible for what they post but boards.ie? Doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

Killer Wench

I am guessing that the intent behind the Irish definition of Free Speech is much like the American definition: it is intended to protect the citizen from unjust laws that hinder one's ability to speak freely in a constructive manner. It isn't about prohibiting unpopular speech nor protecting speech aimed to incite mayhem and violence, but simply providing a civil protection and standard.

Ted_YNWA

Shuuuurruppppp

Logical Fallacy

Personally i don't by into the Free Speech concept. There are always consequences to what you say, people just don't want to face them. They would rather hide behind the archaic concept of Free Speech for talking **** but will ignore my campaign for Free Action when all i want to do is kick their ass for being a moron.

But nope, i'll be done for assault.

It's a pile of ****e i tells ya.

opinion guy

Freedom of speech comes hand in hand with responsibility of speech.

Dudess

Of course we've freedom of speech - instead of trying to find tyranny where there isn't any, perhaps compare Ireland with countries where the people actually don't have free speech.

Old Tom

Dudess wrote: »

instead of trying to find tyranny

You seem to know more about what I'm looking for than myself.

randylonghorn

Old Tom wrote: »

I agree that in some cases could be good to block certain content, but in my opinion if we face repercussions for what we have said (ban on an internet forum as one of examples) - no matter what opinion we have expressed - it's not really a free speech anymore, is it?

As pointed out already, Boards is privately owned, therefore if the owners decided they hated dogs and didn't want people discussing dogs here, they could enforce that rule ... provided it didn't breach any other law.

That's never gonna happen ofc, I'm just taking an extreme example to illustrate the point

Old Tom wrote: »

Funny. I would have thought that the Irish Constitution applies to the internet forums in Ireland as much as to everything else.. I'm not an expert though.

It does ... including the provisions re: private property.

Old Tom wrote: »

As for private companies and boards.ie (if you asked... :P ) - are they not supposed to set their rules and regulations in line with the Constitution? In example, someone wants to abuse a group of people or promote the nazi ideology - well there we go: let's set up a private company with our own rules and we can do whatever we want. I don't think it works that way.

Hence the bit I put in bold above.

Old Tom wrote: »

EDIT: Actually - why isn't the poster responsible for what they post but boards.ie? Doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

Doesn't make a bit of sense to most people, but that's the craziness of Irish law ... and laws in other places too.

And yes, the poster IS responsible ... but so is Boards if it is aware of the offending post and does nothing about it.

The victory of expediency / practicality over sense / justice when it comes to law ... it's a lot easier to chase a company than to chase a private individual.

Buceph

randylonghorn wrote: »

Doesn't make a bit of sense to most people, but that's the craziness of Irish law ... and laws in other places too.

And yes, the poster IS responsible ... but so is Boards if it is aware of the offending post and does nothing about it.

I'm not too sure if that's ever been tested in the courts. I've certainly read that theory, but I've never heard of a case on it.

Capt'n Midnight

Buceph wrote: »

I'm not too sure if that's ever been tested in the courts. I've certainly read that theory, but I've never heard of a case on it.

Budget €50,000 in legal fees for a trip to the high court to see how the theory works in practice.

Buceph

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Budget €50,000 in legal fees for a trip to the high court to see how the theory works in practice.

That was my point.

Capt'n Midnight

Old Tom wrote: »

Funny. I would have thought that the Irish Constitution applies to the internet forums in Ireland as much as to everything else.. I'm not an expert though.

Yes, you are free to setup you own internet forum.

But unless you have been living under a rock you may have noticed a major shift in the copyright laws recently and the request for extradition for the two Irish lads. Unrelated except that it shows the policing of the interweb.

Also Ireland's liable laws stifle a lot of free speech here. Look at the RTE self-censorship of Bull Island compared to the stuff that was in the earlier Scrap Saturday.

Look at Beverly Cooper Flynn, she took RTE to court. Costs were awarded to RTE but Flynn only paid part of that leaving RTE out of pocket by €1 million.