Co-habitating Couple Rights

101280

Hi, this is my first time posting. Reading this article in the Independent got me a bit worried

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/deadbeat-livein-partners-could-claim-property-3046352.html

My girlfriend has been living with me for the last few years or so. It my own house and i pay the mortgage myself. She doesn't pay rent but pays the ESB and Gas bills. But all the bills are still in my name.

we have no kids, im wondering what entitlment she would have if we decided to break up, if any... Thanks

ResearchWill

Go to a solicitor and get an agreement under section 202 of the act http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0024/sec0202.html#sec202

Your partner should see an independent solicitor. I would say two solicitors is the best way to go.

Lantus

wouldn't worry too much. They would have to take you to court which is very expensive. I doubt very much that the courts would award property to a third party when it wasn't theres just because they lived there a while. It sets a dangerous precident that would result in chaos and a whole case load of claims from people who think they can get easy assets.

She has no entitlement and this article is scremongering.

Wuold she seriously go to court and say It's not my house and I dont pay the mortage but please can I have it?

By the same token could I claim a friends car is rightfully mine if he gives me a lift in every day for 5 years but then refuses to?

By that account we only need to be associated with something else and it becomes ours. rubbish. will never happen.

ResearchWill

Lantus wrote: »

wouldn't worry too much. They would have to take you to court which is very expensive. I doubt very much that the courts would award property to a third party when it wasn't theres just because they lived there a while. It sets a dangerous precident that would result in chaos and a whole case load of claims from people who think they can get easy assets.

She has no entitlement and this article is scremongering.

Wuold she seriously go to court and say It's not my house and I dont pay the mortage but please can I have it?

By the same token could I claim a friends car is rightfully mine if he gives me a lift in every day for 5 years but then refuses to?

By that account we only need to be associated with something else and it becomes ours. rubbish. will never happen.

Have you read any of the 2010 Act, also the fact that the other partner is paying two bills in the house would help any argument if she wanted to do so. While any application is not a forgone conclusion any person of property in a relationship where they live with someone would be advised to make a agreement under section 202.

Peregrinus

Lantus wrote: »

wouldn't worry too much. They would have to take you to court which is very expensive.

But it might be worth the expense for a crack at a share in the house!

Lantus wrote: »

I doubt very much that the courts would award property to a third party when it wasn't theres just because they lived there a while. It sets a dangerous precident that would result in chaos and a whole case load of claims from people who think they can get easy assets.

The Act seems to me to allow the court to do that. If the girlfriend can satisfy the court that she is financially dependent on 101280, then the court can make a property adjustment order in her favour. And it seems fairly clear that she is financially dependent on him; she lives in a home which he provides, which given the cost of housing in Ireland is a fairly high degree of dependence.

Plus, it seems to me, she can say that she is making her contribution to the household. She pays utilitities (and perhaps other household expenses; we’re not told). She can argue that this relieves 101280 of a financial burden, and so enables him to pay the mortgage, and she deserves some recognition for this.

Lantus wrote: »

She has no entitlement and this article is scremongering.

Well, it’s scaremongering in the sense that we don’t know whether the courts will do this, but the Act certainly allows them to. And we should remember that not that long ago the court’s developed the notion of the wife’s equitable interest in the family home to cover circumstances where a wife, by financial and indeed non-financial contributions to the household, had enabled the husband to earn lots of money and pay a large mortgage, and thereby acquired an equitable interest in the family home. The question is, will they be prepared to do something similar for a non-marital partner? The Act clearly opens the door for that if they are so minded.

We won’t know the answer to this until a few disgruntled exes have had a go, and their cases have made it to the Supreme Court. Until that happens, I think we are in a state of uncertainty. There is a risk, and to point this out is not scaremongering.

The courts may take the view that a couple who do not marry have not made public enduring commitments to one another, and shouldn’t have the same expectations that husbands and wives do in respect of their “investment” – financial and non-financial – in the relationship. But it’s worth noting that the trend in many other jurisdictions has been to assimilate the position of unmarried partners to the position of spouses, so I wouldn’t assume that the courts would take a censorious view of “shacking up”.

Midnight Sundance

What is the difference between him having a lodger in the house paying utility bills as opposed to her living there and paying them as her rent??

If he set up a rent book for her, would that mean she couldn't claim part of the house if they split up?

What if it was a friend living there with him for a few years, would the friend be entitled to part of the house ??

The reason I ask is because I have a house of my own and it will make me think twice about living with a partner if they can claim what I have worked very hard to obtain.

Finnbar01

Midnight Sundance wrote: »

The reason I ask is because I have a house of my own and it will make me think twice about living with a partner if they can claim what I have worked very hard to obtain.

You're only saying that now. Wait until you fall in love and move the person in, thinking they're the one for you.

juke

Midnight Sundance wrote: »

What is the difference between him having a lodger in the house paying utility bills as opposed to her living there and paying them as her rent??

Friends/lodgers wouldn't have a claim under the act, but a girlfriend, for example, would. The act is concerned with the relationship between 2 people living together - from s. 172 of the act

....... a cohabitant is one of 2 adults (whether of the same or the opposite sex) who live together as a couple in an intimate and committed relationship and who are not related to each other.......

Finnbar01

juke wrote: »

Friends/lodgers wouldn't have a claim under the act, but a girlfriend, for example, would. The act is concerned with the relationship between 2 people living together - from s. 172 of the act

But couldn't the friend/lodger have a claim if they insisted that the relationship was more than platonic?

juke

Finnbar01 wrote: »

But couldn't the friend/lodger have a claim if they insisted that the relationship was more than platonic?

If the other party denies the relationship existed, then the friend/lodger would need to come up with some pretty convincing evidence to satisfy the court before it would grant an order.

I'm not aware of this ever being tested, but I guess, similar to immigration type stamp 4 applications, the court would look for photo's, e-mails, letters, evidence from family/friends.

ResearchWill

juke wrote: »

If the other party denies the relationship existed, then the friend/lodger would need to come up with some pretty convincing evidence to satisfy the court before it would grant an order.

I'm not aware of this ever being tested, but I guess, similar to immigration type stamp 4 applications, the court would look for photo's, e-mails, letters, evidence from family/friends.

There has been a recent case, where one partner died and the other person made a claim of the estate, the problem was the family could not give evidence that no relationship existed. Not sure of the out come must check it out.

DeSourire

Hi you should go to a website called treoir. They have a great handout that explains everything in simple English. Very basically. You have to be in an intimate and committed relationship for 5 years (2 with children). Your partner would have to prove she is financially dependent on you. However if she has her own job, pays her own bills... There are arguments both ways. IF she is deemed to be a "qualified cohabitant" She can apply to court from a property adjustment order, maintaineance order or a pension adjustment order. I would also point out that legal aid can be granted in relation.

You may want to consider entering into a cohabitants agreement. In this agreement you can opt out of the 'redress scheme' (outlined above) so your interests will be protected in the future. The cohabitant agreement strictly deals with financial matters and for it to be enforceable there are certain rules you have to follow. But there are all in the act or the Treoir leaflet I pointed out earlier.