Why is Raul still so unappreciated?

steelcityblues

After watching the incredible Messi performance against Leverkusen, and George Hamilton mentioning his Champions League tally, it got me thinking: why does the guy who holds the record still not get the recognition he deserves, especially outside of Spain?

My only conclusion is that because he was a club colleague at the same time as worldwide household names in Zidane, Ronaldo, Beckham, Figo, the Madrid #7 seemed to be somewhat patronised and forgotten about by the world sports media. How often would you expect a guy who has 228 goals for the world's most decorated club, and 71 CL goals to go under the radar, like he has? Makes no sense.

Even with Schalke last season, they certainly would not have been one step away from Wembley, if it wasn't for his goals in the campaign.

Even the usually credible Miguel Delaney falls into the underrating trap by having both Rivaldo and Ronaldinho high up from the 1970s generation ahead in his all time 100, while leaving out the greatest European goalscorer of his generation out of his list? Sorry Miguel, but that's unforgivable.

Ronaldinho and Rivaldo were both excellent to watch, but from a longevity standpoint they simply shouldn't be so far up an all time list.

See here: http://footballpantheon.com/2011/09/the-100-greatest-players-of-all-time/16/

Personally, I think the stats suggest that he is a serious contender for the third best of his generation after the obvious two in Ronaldo and Zidane- the stats don't argue. Can anyone else explain why normally knowledgeable people like Delaney can't still appreciate his greatness?

It really baffles me.

CSF

steelcityblues wrote: »

After watching the incredible Messi performance against Leverkusen, and George Hamilton mentioning his Champions League tally, it got me thinking: why does the guy who holds the record still not get the recognition he deserves, especially outside of Spain?

My only conclusion is that because he was a club colleague at the same time as worldwide household names in Zidane, Ronaldo, Beckham, Figo, the Madrid #7 seemed to be somewhat patronised and forgotten about by the world sports media. How often would you expect a guy who has 228 goals for the world's most decorated club, and 71 CL goals to go under the radar, like he has? Makes no sense.

Even with Schalke last season, they certainly would not have been one step away from Wembley, if it wasn't for his goals in the campaign.

Even the usually credible Miguel Delaney falls into the underrating trap by having both Rivaldo and Ronaldinho high up from the 1970s generation ahead in his all time 100, while leaving out the greatest European goalscorer of his generation out of his list? Sorry Miguel, but that's unforgivable.

Ronaldinho and Rivaldo were both excellent to watch, but from a longevity standpoint they simply shouldn't be so far up an all time list.

See here: http://footballpantheon.com/2011/09/the-100-greatest-players-of-all-time/16/

Personally, I think the stats suggest that he is a serious contender for the third best of his generation after the obvious two in Ronaldo and Zidane- the stats don't argue. Can anyone else explain why normally knowledgeable people like Delaney can't still appreciate his greatness?

It really baffles me.

For me, its because he has always been a consistent goalscorer, and only occasionally has he been an exceptional goalscorer. It is 12 years since he has had a 20 goal season after all, and while his consistency of putting the ball in the net is to be admired, it doesn't make the same kind of news headlines as the likes of Ronaldinho who had the world at their feet for a short period of time.

steelcityblues

CSF wrote: »

For me, its because he has always been a consistent goalscorer, and only occasionally has he been an exceptional goalscorer. It is 12 years since he has had a 20 goal season after all, and while his consistency of putting the ball in the net is to be admired, it doesn't make the same kind of news headlines as the likes of Ronaldinho who had the world at their feet for a short period of time.

He is the club's all time top goalscorer. Again, I think it is a bit more than just being consistent.

Ronaldinho might be my all time favourite player because of his positive personality. But at the same time he had a three year super spell, and eventually burned himself out.

willmunny1990

steelcityblues wrote: »

He is the club's all time top goalscorer. Again, I think it is a bit more than just being consistent.

Ronaldinho might be my all time favourite player because of his positive personality. But at the same time he had a three year super spell, and eventually got introduced to the local nightclub

FYP

steelcityblues

LOL, pretty much right.

Corholio

I think it was around the 05/06 and 06/07 where his league record was only 12 goals in 2 seasons. He had a long barren run during this time, cant remember how many games. In fairness he's a legend at Real, but I think in world terms, time can be unforgiving and I think it''s also an entertainment thing. Raul was an astonishingly good finisher but he never had pace, he reminds me a lot of how Giggs was when he first started losing his pace.

His record speaks for itself though, I dont think he's forgotten that much though. I just dont think he's ever done anything explosive to be remembered in the same way. Like Messi, Zidane, Ronaldinho etc have.

CongoPowers

He wasn't always just a great goalscorer, but that's what he's been for I don't know how long now. His record is ridiculous, but that's what he has been for most of his career: special goalscorer rather than a special player.

Maybe you're right about this consistency being underrated, but of those players mentioned (Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho etc), he was never close to them at their best in my opinion.

steelcityblues

CongoPowers wrote: »

He wasn't always just a great goalscorer, but that's what he's been for I don't know how long now. His record is ridiculous, but that's what he has been for most of his career: special goalscorer rather than a special player.

Maybe you're right about this consistency being underrated, but of those players mentioned (Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho etc), he was never close to them at their best in my opinion.

I never said he was better than those three at their peak - and in the case of the first two they have the multiple honours and longevity to be part of the real elite.

However, with Ronaldinho, can you say his career was really complete in the final analysis?

shangri la

He is very well respected and thought of throughout the football world. You and your mates are just a small sample size. He will go down in the history books.

kfallon

Was he not a bit of an arsehole in the dressing room at Real, if he didn't like you he went out of his way to show it. For instance he made Ronaldo very unwelcome when he arrived first cos he was taking the place of his friend Morientes. Think he shunned Owen a bit too.

I'm sure I read this somewhere before, apologies if I am wrong!

plasmaguy

One of Mourinho's first tasks was to get rid of him because he was too powerful and influential and caused problems for managers in the past, so there might be some truth that he was a problem in the dressing room.

I'd imagine if he wasn't captain and playing week in week out, he'd get onto the club president and try get mourinho out.

Glico Man

plasmaguy wrote: »

One of Mourinho's first tasks was to get rid of him because he was too powerful and influential and caused problems for managers in the past, so there might be some truth that he was a problem in the dressing room.

I'd imagine if he wasn't captain and playing week in week out, he'd get onto the club president and try get mourinho out.

Mourinho wanted to keep him, but he didn't want to be a back up player.

plasmaguy

There will always be an asterix beside some great players, even if they deserve it or not.

For example Brazillian Ronaldo would probably be considered the best striker in history but he was injured a lot and didn't score as many goals as Romario or Pele, even though the standard was undoubtedly higher in Ronaldos time.

Messi is shaping up to be the greatest club player in the history of the game, but the asterix is he has never done that well at the world cup, maybe not his fault. Playing with brilliant teammates at Barca helps I suppose.

Zidane might be considered the greatest, but he didn't score over 1000 goals like Pele, and his international career was blighted by injuries and retirement. Still a great player.

Raul didn't play in the Spanish teams that won the Euro or WC finals so again an asterix there. If he had an outstanding WC campaign and got the golden boot, people would say he was an all time great.

Trippie

Also I would have a few questions basing anything off that list. some strange numbers there such as maradona having a better international record than pele

plasmaguy

aaronh007 wrote: »

Mourinho wanted to keep him, but he didn't want to be a back up player.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. I just heard some commentator or analyst on TV the other day mention how Mourinho got rid of Raul because of how influential he was and that AVB probably should have done the same with Frank Lampard.

steelcityblues

plasmaguy wrote: »

There will always be an asterix beside some great players, even if they deserve it or not.

For example Brazillian Ronaldo would probably be considered the best striker in history but he was injured a lot and didn't score as many goals as Romario or Pele, even though the standard was undoubtedly higher in Ronaldos time.

Messi is shaping up to be the greatest club player in the history of the game, but the asterix is he has never done that well at the world cup, maybe not his fault. Playing with brilliant teammates at Barca helps I suppose.

Zidane might be considered the greatest, but he didn't score over 1000 goals like Pele, and his international career was blighted by injuries and retirement. Still a great player.

Raul didn't play in the Spanish teams that won the Euro or WC finals so again an asterix there. If he had an outstanding WC campaign and got the golden boot, people would say he was an all time great.

Good point. In Messi's case, I won't hold it too much against him if he does not have an outstanding World Cup for Argentina, because club football is just as big these days, and he is certainly leaving a mark there.

Raul never had an amazing tournament for Spain, but he still scored 44 times which was impressive.

Zidane was never there to be a major goalscorer.

pickarooney

Can you describe three goals Raul scored in his career? I struggle to think of even one memorable goal from among the hundreds. I'm not sure why that is.

steelcityblues

pickarooney wrote: »

Can you describe three goals Raul scored in his career? I struggle to think of even one memorable goal from among the hundreds. I'm not sure why that is.

Here, let the video describe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eGUuPeyNyw

One against Anderlecht is my favourite.

Warper

Raul unappreciated??? Thats news to me

iregk

I wouldn't say Raul is unappreciated. Maybe you're thinking that when people sit down to do their european teams of the past 20 years he probably wouldn't feature where as maybe Batistuta and Rivaldo etc... would.

For me there is one thing that I don't like about Raul. When he was young he was sensational and I couldn't wait to see this guy in the late 20's peak. I was genuinely wondering how defenses would cope with him. Just when he should have been coming into his peak years he went completely off the boil and seemed to just trudge along for a few years. He never quite recaptured his form from his younger years and for that I think people will always be a little iffy about him.

kfallon

pickarooney wrote: »

Can you describe three goals Raul scored in his career? I struggle to think of even one memorable goal from among the hundreds. I'm not sure why that is.

The chip in the CL against Anderlecht (I think) - pure class!
The opener in the CL semi final 2nd leg against Barca at the Bernabeu, left foot into top corner
The curling shot at Old Trafford
The side foot volley against Nigeria in WC '98, great technique

That's 4 off the top of my head

steelcityblues

iregk wrote: »

I wouldn't say Raul is unappreciated. Maybe you're thinking that when people sit down to do their european teams of the past 20 years he probably wouldn't feature where as maybe Batistuta and Rivaldo etc... would.

For me there is one thing that I don't like about Raul. When he was young he was sensational and I couldn't wait to see this guy in the late 20's peak. I was genuinely wondering how defenses would cope with him. Just when he should have been coming into his peak years he went completely off the boil and seemed to just trudge along for a few years. He never quite recaptured his form from his younger years and for that I think people will always be a little iffy about him.

True, but it is happened to quite a few great players.

Ryan Giggs, around the time of the mid 00s, wasn't doing much for Man United, but you wouldn't deny he is already one of the best to ever play for the club.

Also Van Persie had a few average seasons for Arsenal, coupled with some injuries, but his class is coming through these days.

The fact that Raul came back from a few average seasons pretty successfully should not be easily forgotten.

eagle eye

The reason Raul wasn't scoring as many goals for a few seasons was to do with him playing a deeper role in the Madrid team in many games for a few years. He was always a class act.