The New Animal Welfare Bill

Discodog

Minister Coveney discusses the new Animal Welfare Bill which is to be introduced this week.

http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9:3220627:133::

One immediate introduction is a Freephone Animal Cruelty Number

1850 211 990.

Also all rescues in receipt of a grant will have to comply with published guidelines which can be viewed here:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/animalwelfare/fundingtoanimalwelfareorganisations/

Unfortunately the Minister disagrees with Badger Watch over the use of snares.

DamagedTrax

who will the animal cruelty number be manned by and who will investigate cases?

Discodog

Dept of Agriculture - they will now have responsibility for pet animals as well as farm animals.

Coveney says in the interview that he wants to appoint local Vets to intervene in potential cruelty cases. It's a good idea but he may find that the Vets won't sign up.

Tranceypoo

Also that number is only available/manned between 2pm-5pm Monday to Friday, a 24 hour number would have been better but presumably they don't have the resources and at least there is an alternative number to the ISPCA who don't even cover some of the counties and in my personal experience, don't actually answer the phone (just my personal experience!!)

Heard most of this on PK this morning, was disappointed there's nothing about the use of animals in circuses being banned and nothing on fur farming (although he did say there's a separate report on that due in a few weeks time) and also about the badger culling but I suppose it's a start. Long long way to go, lots of things missing, but it is a start.

Discodog

My biggest overall concern is his comment that they have looked at the AWB's of other Countries but have had to adapt ours to Ireland. This sounds like politician speak for we are going to allow special interest groups to dilute the Bill as happened with the Dog Breeding & Greyhound Bills.

It will be interesting to read the submissions that are made & the excuses given to reduce the welfare element of the Bill.

Lawrence1895

Discodog wrote: »

Minister Coveney discusses the new Animal Welfare Bill which is to be introduced this week.

http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9:3220627:133::

One immediate introduction is a Freephone Animal Cruelty Number

1850 211 990.

Also all rescues in receipt of a grant will have to comply with published guidelines which can be viewed here:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/animalwelfare/fundingtoanimalwelfareorganisations/

Unfortunately the Minister disagrees with Badger Watch over the use of snares.

I don't think, that is a freephone number. The '1850' prefix indicates, its a LoCall number, and you can pay a small fortune ringing from a mobile.

Sorry, if that was a bit off topic

Discodog

Lars1916 wrote: »

I don't think, that is a freephone number. The '1850' prefix indicates, its a LoCall number, and you can pay a small fortune ringing from a mobile.

Sorry, if that was a bit off topic

He says it a Freephone during the broadcast but I think you are right.

**Vai**

They can bring in all the bills and laws they want, it placates people but the fact is there will still be no one to enforce them.

Discodog

That would be my main concern. I can't see the using local Vets as inspectors idea working. Vets are already reluctant to give evidence & I can't see them wanting to be seen as "snoopers". I could envisage a situation where people would be reluctant to go to their Vet in case they get accused of neglect. Maybe if it doesn't work & the "Cruelty line" gets lots of calls, they might consider funding the ISPCA to allow for a proper network of inspectors.

Tranceypoo

Ironically saw posters up in Loughrea this morning for a circus which featured the line 'don't miss the lions and tigers' - made me want to cry.

Discodog

Hopefully they will die out when the UK ban takes effect. It would be difficult to justify the cost of animals in a Circus just for Ireland. I know of a sweet elderly couple who just stood quietly outside a circus in Galway handing out leaflets. They were subjected to a lot of abuse for parents with children. There is still a strong view here that a Circus without wild animals isn't worth going to.

If the AWB follows the principle of basic freedoms, as outlined by the Minister, then it ought to be possible to prosecute a Circus for cruelty.

ppink

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Ironically saw posters up in Loughrea this morning for a circus which featured the line 'don't miss the lions and tigers' - made me want to cry.

5 elephants in the one near us a while ago. very sad to see them all stood in the one spot in a field beside a main road:(
made me wonder how the hell they control such large animals, its not like you can tie them to anything?

I wonder how good this number will be to call. I will have to give it a go, I think the local gardai are fed up to the teeth of hearing from me:rolleyes:

Discodog

One of the five Freedoms, that the Act is supposed to be based on, is the freedom to express normal behaviour. That should discount any wild animal being in a circus.

angry kitten

ppink wrote: »

5 elephants in the one near us a while ago. very sad to see them all stood in the one spot in a field beside a main road:(
made me wonder how the hell they control such large animals, its not like you can tie them to anything?

I wonder how good this number will be to call. I will have to give it a go, I think the local gardai are fed up to the teeth of hearing from me:rolleyes:

They put spikes in the ground and shackle the elephants to them. I heard something on Sky news about it the other night. I didn't catch the whole news item, the gist of it seemed to be that undercover filming at a circus had shown this going on. Apparently during visits to check on the welfare of animals at the circus the spikes had been hidden under straw and weren't discovered.

Discodog

ppink wrote: »

made me wonder how the hell they control such large animals,

Sometimes they can't

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0627/circus.html

ppink

Discodog wrote: »

One of the five Freedoms, that the Act is supposed to be based on, is the freedom to express normal behaviour. That should discount any wild animal being in a circus.

I thought they were supposed to have that already before this Act?

angry kitten wrote: »

They put spikes in the ground and shackle the elephants to them. I heard something on Sky news about it the other night. I didn't catch the whole news item, the gist of it seemed to be that undercover filming at a circus had shown this going on. Apparently during visits to check on the welfare of animals at the circus the spikes had been hidden under straw and weren't discovered.

Even with spikes though? it amazes me they can hold them.
I would really wonder what welfare checks are ever done on circuses in Ireland too.

Discodog wrote: »

Sometimes they can't

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0627/circus.html[/QUOTE]

its ok though as there was no danger:rolleyes:

planetX

I don't know... the idea of the phoneline seems good - but a lot of the cruelty going on is already known about and it seems nothing can be done. Really it's not like cruelty is something hidden in this country, I'm talking about mostly horses here. I suppose if the phoneline helps with dogs it would be a start:(

angry kitten

planetX wrote: »

I don't know... the idea of the phoneline seems good - but a lot of the cruelty going on is already known about and it seems nothing can be done. Really it's not like cruelty is something hidden in this country, I'm talking about mostly horses here. I suppose if the phoneline helps with dogs it would be a start:(

I sometimes find it very difficult to tell if I should call someone about incidents with horses. Now yesterday I was on my way to Ennis, I saw a few horses in a field, all had horse blankets but the field was mostly mud and I didn't see any hay in the field. I haven't any idea if someone is looking after them on a regular basis or if they've been left for a while. I just made the assumption that because they had horse blankets that they must be ok. But I keep thinking about the muddy field and lack of much grass or any hay.

Discodog

angry kitten wrote: »

I sometimes find it very difficult to tell if I should call someone about incidents with horses. Now yesterday I was on my way to Ennis, I saw a few horses in a field, all had horse blankets but the field was mostly mud and I didn't see any hay in the field. I haven't any idea if someone is looking after them on a regular basis or if they've been left for a while. I just made the assumption that because they had horse blankets that they must be ok. But I keep thinking about the muddy field and lack of much grass or any hay.

Maybe there should be a legal requirement, for anyone keeping livestock, to put their contact details on the gate ? I have personally been involved in cases where there is a serious problem but no one knows who owns the livestock or how to contact them.

angry kitten

Discodog wrote: »

Maybe there should be a legal requirement, for anyone keeping livestock, to put their contact details on the gate ? I have personally been involved in cases where there is a serious problem but no one knows who owns the livestock or how to contact them.

It's been niggling at me so I just emailed the ISPCA officer in Ennis. There should be contact details. Its easy to assume that because they're beside a busy road that somebody would notice if there's a problem. Then you wonder if you're that person.

planetX

I'm regularly calling the SPCA and the guards about incidents with horses but they don't seem to be able to do anything. My point is that I don't feel that the problems with animal cruelty lie with under-reporting, it's that there doesn't seem to be any real penalties if cases even get as far as conviction.

Tranceypoo

ppink wrote: »

5 elephants in the one near us a while ago. very sad to see them all stood in the one spot in a field beside a main road:(
made me wonder how the hell they control such large animals, its not like you can tie them to anything?

I wonder how good this number will be to call. I will have to give it a go, I think the local gardai are fed up to the teeth of hearing from me:rolleyes:

Jesus - 5?? I saw one shackled up on the green in Loughrea (where Supervalu used to be) once, it was 2003 actually, the poor creature was swaying back and forth. That image has never left me. Naively I called the gspca, not knowing what I expected them to do. Just something.

doctor evil

Discodog wrote: »

One of the five Freedoms, that the Act is supposed to be based on, is the freedom to express normal behaviour.

Normal behaviour for dogs is to gather in a pack and hunt, doesn't mean it should happen. Normal expression of behaviour is not written in stone as it would go against neutering/spaying.

planetX

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Jesus - 5?? I saw one shackled up on the green in Loughrea (where Supervalu used to be) once, it was 2003 actually, the poor creature was swaying back and forth. That image has never left me. Naively I called the gspca, not knowing what I expected them to do. Just something.

There was a circus a few years ago with a hippo in a tiny metal tank of water, I couldn't believe it:mad:

DBB

angry kitten wrote: »

I sometimes find it very difficult to tell if I should call someone about incidents with horses. Now yesterday I was on my way to Ennis, I saw a few horses in a field, all had horse blankets but the field was mostly mud and I didn't see any hay in the field.

Horses have become such a huge welfare issue in Ireland, and I'm thinking it must be really hard to get help for them all from rescues/the authorities etc, because we're just awash with unwanted and horribly neglected horses.
However, horses wearing rugs could be tremendously thin underneath the rugs: it is the most natural thing in the world to think that if there's a rug on, the horse is getting some level of care, but in fact, rugs can be used to conceal severe neglect and starvation. Horses should have ad lib access to fodder, or at worst regular access, so if there was no grass or fodder for these animals, you might be on to a welfare case here. Worth reporting: even if it comes to nothing and these horses are inf act getting decent care, at least you'd know now!

Discodog

doctor evil wrote: »

Normal behaviour for dogs is to gather in a pack and hunt, doesn't mean it should happen. Normal expression of behaviour is not written in stone as it would go against neutering/spaying.

Research shows that domesticated dogs do not form packs even if they are left without human contact. No one could argue that neutering or spaying is not for the general benefit of dogs as is intervening with veterinary treatment to prevent illness or death.

This is polls apart from taking a wild animal & forcing it to live in dreadful conditions whilst being hauled around the country doing "tricks".

angry kitten

DBB wrote: »

Horses have become such a huge welfare issue in Ireland, and I'm thinking it must be really hard to get help for them all from rescues/the authorities etc, because we're just awash with unwanted and horribly neglected horses.
However, horses wearing rugs could be tremendously thin underneath the rugs: it is the most natural thing in the world to think that if there's a rug on, the horse is getting some level of care, but in fact, rugs can be used to conceal severe neglect and starvation. Horses should have ad lib access to fodder, or at worst regular access, so if there was no grass or fodder for these animals, you might be on to a welfare case here. Worth reporting: even if it comes to nothing and these horses are inf act getting decent care, at least you'd know now!

Thats what I was thinking so I emailed the ISPCA officer in Ennis last night. I'm rarely in Ennis so I wouldn't notice if there was hay in the field on another day or not.

Discodog

In typical Irish style the Control of Horses Act was half baked. Instead of being introduced countrywide it was left to Local Authorities to decide if they wanted to designate their patch as a controlled area. The same thing has happened with the Dog Breeding Bill in that it is up to LA's whether they inspect.

Every horse & dog should be microchipped & the inspectors provided with scanners & mobile access to the database. This won't happen because the government fear a backlash from some owners.

planetX

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Ironically saw posters up in Loughrea this morning for a circus which featured the line 'don't miss the lions and tigers' - made me want to cry.

Just saw a poster for a circus in Galway that featured the line
'MORE ANIMALS THAN EVER!'

also said not to forget to visit the 'zoo' after the circus. So it looks like Ireland is moving in the opposite direction from the UK, now we have travelling zoos as well as circuses. Lovely:mad:

angry kitten

Every time I put on Sky I'm shown ads asking me to donate to save endangered tigers. Zoo's have been justifying having animals in captivity under the guise of conservation, now don't get me wrong I'm all for helping animals. How on earth are these circuses getting away with this. Of course if people would stop taking kids to the circus it would help.

Discodog

planetX wrote: »

Just saw a poster for a circus in Galway that featured the line
'MORE ANIMALS THAN EVER!'

All the more reason to lobby Galway Council for a local ban on circuses with wild animals & follow Fingal's example. Someone did start a thread in the Galway forum & needless to say several posters said that they & their children wanted to see wild animals.