Genuine question regarding identity issue with McIlroy & McDowell

TheTwiz

I know this has been done to death but I've a genuine question regarding the Northern Irish lads. From what I understand the GUI is a 32 county All-Ireland association similar to the the cricket & rugby with both sides of the border representing 'Ireland'. Can anybody care to explain why at every event I hear at the first tee "From Northern Ireland...." along with seeing the Northern Irish flag with 'NIR" beside their names on the scoreboard. Surely it makes sense for a neutral flag similar to this http://www.irishrugby.ie/images/news/IRFU_Flag.jpg with them representing Ireland as apposed to Northern Ireland considering the GUI is a 32 county organisation. I know this sounds ridiculous but I just can't support them the same way I would for Harrington & Lowry as I see the red of Ulster every time I see the scoreboard I simply can't relate to it.

fasttalkerchat

TheTwiz wrote: »

I know this has been done to death but I've a genuine question regarding the Northern Irish lads. From what I understand the GUI is a 32 county All-Ireland association similar to the the cricket & rugby with both sides of the border representing 'Ireland'. Can anybody care to explain why at every event I hear at the first tee "From Northern Ireland...." along with seeing the Northern Irish flag with 'NIR" beside their names on the scoreboard. Surely it makes sense for a neutral flag similar to this http://www.irishrugby.ie/images/news/IRFU_Flag.jpg with them representing Ireland as apposed to Northern Ireland considering the GUI is a 32 county organisation. I know this sounds ridiculous but I just can't support them the same way I would for Harrington & Lowry as I see the red of Ulster every time I see the scoreboard I simply can't relate to it.

They have a right to call themselves British since their ancestors came from England/Scotland. In rugby its different since its a team sport. If they want to use another flag or a neutral one that's up to them.
I can see your point but maybe in a few decades more sports stars from the north will be comfortable with the tricolour.

TheTwiz

A neutral flag is more approprriate

peepee

I just can't support them the same way I would for Harrington & Lowry as I see the red of Ulster every time I see the scoreboard I simply can't relate to it

Why can't you just accept their positions? Why should they change so you feel better about supporting them. If you haven't grown up in the north you shouldn't suppose to understand why they might choose the NI flag.

TheTwiz

Golf is a 32 county sport so they should have a nuetral flag which represents all 4 provinces. Simple as that

newport2

TheTwiz wrote: »

I know this sounds ridiculous but I just can't support them the same way I would for Harrington & Lowry as I see the red of Ulster every time I see the scoreboard I simply can't relate to it.

That's just down to politics. Politically, they qualify as British. Whether anyone likes it or not, they are also Irish. Irregardless of which political party Harrington supported, you could still cheer for him I hope.

TheTwiz

Yes i understand that but is golf not a 32 county sport? The rugby and cricket teams have nuetral flags. Why can't golf? What has the political party Harrington supported got to do with anything?

Tox56

Let them chose themselves, and if they did, I'm pretty sure I know which flag they would pick.

newport2

TheTwiz wrote: »

What has the political party Harrington supported got to do with anything?

Because you said you find it difficult to support McIlroy and McDowell for essentially what boils down to political reasons.

deanswift

peepee wrote: »

Why can't you just accept their positions? Why should they change so you feel better about supporting them. If you haven't grown up in the north you shouldn't suppose to understand why they might choose the NI flag.

good point pp, it's difficult for us free staters to understand the mind set of folk living in the dark ages

newport2

peepee wrote: »

Why can't you just accept their positions? Why should they change so you feel better about supporting them. If you haven't grown up in the north you shouldn't suppose to understand why they might choose the NI flag.

Do they even get an option to choose the flag? I know Clarke marks his ball with a tricolour, why would he not then opt for that flag if he could?

I expect if it is a choice the NI flag would be chosen to prevent isolating chunks of people who would support them otherwise. They may see it as a neutral stand between the tricolour and the union jack.

Kid Charlemagne

newport2 wrote: »

They may see it as a neutral stand between the tricolour and the union jack.

That makes a lot of sense actually - why should they be dragged into the argument, theyve bigger fish to fry.
Fair play to them anyway, theyve managed to handle the issue fairly diplomatically at all times despite the numerous efforts of nobodys to pigeonhole them.

TheTwiz

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

That makes a lot of sense actually - why should they be dragged into the argument, theyve bigger fish to fry.
Fair play to them anyway, theyve managed to handle the issue fairly diplomatically at all times despite the numerous efforts of nobodys to pigeonhole them.

Nobody plays under the Union Jack so your point means nothing. Lee Westwood plays under the English flag, Monty the Scottish flag etc Never ever is the Union Jack on show

Riskymove

imo there is a big difference in golf as opposed to Rugby (or cricket)

Rugby is a team sport with the team representing the 32 County Island and therefore neither the Ulster or Eire flags are appropriate and the IRFU has it's own official flag to represent that team. Individual's nationalities are not important.

In golf players are introduced and play as individuals and are represented by a flag showing their nationality not, afaik, what Golfing Union they represent. An example here is when that Zimbawain golfer, Mark McNulty, took Irish citizenship and has since had the Irish Flag beside his name, simply as a convenience.

The exceptions in golf are the actual team events, like the World Cup (and now, the Olympics), when golfers play for a team

newport2

TheTwiz wrote: »

Nobody plays under the Union Jack so your point means nothing. Lee Westwood plays under the English flag, Monty the Scottish flag etc Never ever is the Union Jack on show

True, but if they chose the tricolour, that would be making a statement to a large part of their community. Things are not quite as simple in the north as elsewhere.

denishurley

The glaring point here is that, if a neutral flag were to be used, then Harrington, McGinley, Lowry etc should also use it

Riskymove

newport2 wrote: »

Do they even get an option to choose the flag? I know Clarke marks his ball with a tricolour, why would he not then opt for that flag if he could?

tbh and no offence, but I think this comment shows exactly the kind of limited view out there

There is no problem with considering yourself 'Irish' and associating your identity with a shamrock and, at the same time, being 'Northen Irish' in nationality

Riskymove

denishurley wrote: »

The glaring point here is that, if a neutral flag were to be used, then Harrington, McGinley, Lowry etc should also use it

tbf i think that is part of the OP's point

newport2

Riskymove wrote: »

tbh and no offence, but I think this comment shows exactly the kind of limited view out there

There is no problem with considering yourself 'Irish' and associating your identity with a shamrock and, at the same time, being 'Northen Irish' in nationality

I fully agree and that was the point I was trying to make.

I was saying that Clarke marks his ball with a tricolour, but has no problem standing under a NI flag. Essentially viewing himself as Irish and Northern Irish at the same time.

TheTwiz

newport2 wrote: »

True, but if they chose the tricolour, that would be making a statement to a large part of their community. Things are not quite as simple in the north as elsewhere.

I've said numerous times a "nuetral flag" should be commissioned. http://www.irishrugby.ie/images/news/IRFU_Flag.jpg something like that would be ideal for all golfers from this island. I dont know why people keep bringing up the tricolour when i never said that.

Mr. Larson

You're right. It has been done to death.

There are always jokes made by us Irish, about how England tend to be fickle about claiming people based on their success or otherwise. Based on how this conversation keeps cropping up and the usual drivel that ensues, we aren't any better.

TheTwiz

Our rugby team which O'Driscoll, O'Connell play for offically don't play under the tricolour either. No problems there whatsoever. Golf should be the same

denishurley

Riskymove wrote: »

tbf i think that is part of the OP's point

No he seems to be just saying that the Northern Irish lads should have a neutral flag. If all are representing a 32-county organisation then the tricolour should be nowhere to be seen either

stringy

it's quite simple really, they're both from Northern Ireland, that's their nationality.

the GUI thing isn't an argument really because that's simply the golf association they are members of or came from.

They're individuals when it comes to competing hence, the flag reflecting their nationality.

Myksyk

stringy wrote: »

it's quite simple really, they're both from Northern Ireland, that's their nationality.

the GUI thing isn't an argument really because that's simply the golf association they are members of or came from.

They're individuals when it comes to competing hence, the flag reflecting their nationality.

I agree. This is an individual sport and none of these guys are representing a country. The comparison with rugby and cricket etc is bogus. Flags beside names merely indicate where the person was born.

TheTwiz

Jabberwocky wrote: »

You're right. It has been done to death.

There are always jokes made by us Irish, about how England tend to be fickle about claiming people based on their success or otherwise. Based on how this conversation keeps cropping up and the usual drivel that ensues, we aren't any better.

Yes but golf is a 32 county sport so why should the Northern Ireland flag be used

Tox56

TheTwiz wrote: »

Yes but golf is a 32 county sport so why should the Northern Ireland flag be used

It's representing their nationality, not which Golfing Union they represent. It's an individual sport, unlike Rugby.

LordSutch

denishurley wrote: »

The glaring point here is that, if a neutral flag were to be used, then Harrington, McGinley, Lowry etc should also use it

Mc Illroy is from Northern Ireland which is within the UK, he is also British.

golfball37

I admire the lads for being above this pettiness of is he Irish or British. Why can't they be both ffs, its their right under the GFA.

If I was from NI I would be of the exact same mindset & I would use the NI flag until the political situation changed one way or the other.

I think it shows a narrow mindedness to not support them because they use the NI flag tbh, it doesn't make them any less Irish in my eyes, in fact the way they rise above the crap that has dogged ths island for centuries mean they represent more of an Irishness I wish to identify with than any label.

k.p.h

Dose not look like they give a monkeys to be fair, and why would they. It's so irrelevant it's not funny.

denishurley

k.p.h wrote: »

Dose not look like they give a monkeys to be fair, and why would they. It's so irrelevant it's not funny.

What are the three lads' links with the Ivory Coast?

Sandwlch

TheTwiz wrote: »

Yes but golf is a 32 county sport so why should the Northern Ireland flag be used

Incorrect. It is not a 32 county sport as far as professional golfer are concerned. The organisation of the amateur game that they might once have played under no longer has any relevance to them. They are not representing the GUI, or the 32 county amateur organisation they came from, or even their country, when they compete as individual professionals. They are competing as individuals and their nationality is only an incidental tag. Rugby players are representing that 32 county organisation.
A common flag, which makes sense for rugby, is nonsense for pro golfers.

opinionated3

LordSutch wrote: »

denishurley wrote: »

The glaring point here is that, if a neutral flag were to be used, then Harrington, McGinley, Lowry etc should also use it

Mc Illroy is from Northern Ireland which is within the UK, he is also British.

You're right.....that's why I can't support him in the same way I support padraig, Lowry even Clarke who IMO has never hidden his allegiance, no matter what slant people here put on it

stockdam

Many people from Northern Ireland are proud to be from NI and like the idea of saying they are from NI. In a way it's because of the nonsense that has gone on for years ....... you're British, no you're Irish.......no we are from Northern Ireland and are happy to use whatever flag we choose and to jump between several as we wish. "We'll do as we wish......not as anyone thinks we should".

newport2

stockdam wrote: »

Many people from Northern Ireland are proud to be from NI and like the idea of saying they are from NI. In a way it's because of the nonsense that has gone on for years ....... you're British, no you're Irish.......no we are from Northern Ireland and are happy to use whatever flag we choose and to jump between several as we wish. "We'll do as we wish......not as anyone thinks we should".

Well said

GreeBo

stockdam wrote: »

Many people from Northern Ireland are proud to be from NI and like the idea of saying they are from NI. In a way it's because of the nonsense that has gone on for years ....... you're British, no you're Irish.......no we are from Northern Ireland and are happy to use whatever flag we choose and to jump between several as we wish. "We'll do as we wish......not as anyone thinks we should".

And with that we are done.