Dissidents starting to use the tactics of the PIRA

junder

It seems we are taking yet another step back towards the bad old days with dissidents shooting up a Protestant household because they are related to a Police officer, should they kill somebody from the unionist community I would not be surprised to see a retaliation from loyalist paramilitarys and before we know it we are sucked back into a the sectarian mire that we thought we left behind


‘IRA’ claim gun attack on border

February 29, 2012 at 12:56 pm




REPORTS OF gunmen using Kalashnikov assault rifles to shoot up the house of a Protestant family living along the Fermanagh Cavan border have sparked off fresh fears among the unionist community in the area.
The PSNI are investigating a claim issued by the 32 County Sovereignty Committee that the self-styled South Fermanagh Brigade of the IRA fired shots at a house in the Newtownbutler area in retaliation for recent police raids on republican homes.
Two gunmen armed with AK47 assault rifles reportedly carried out the gun attack at approximately 8pm on Tuesday night of last week.
A caller who claimed to be from the IRA warned the PSNI that, “if they continue with their deliberate harassment and victimisation of republican families, we have no other option than to target the families belonging to them”.


http://fermanaghherald.com/2012/02/2...ack-on-border/

KeithAFC

If it kicks off again, at least we know who started it and they will have no one to blame but themselves. But they have next to no real support anyway. So they pissing against the wind.

Hannibal

these aren't the tactics of the PIRA they're adopting its more like the tactics of the UDA or UVF by wrecklessly shooting into the homes of innocent people.

KeithAFC

Dotsey wrote: »

these aren't the tactics of the PIRA they're adopting its more like the tactics of the UDA or UVF by wrecklessly shooting into the homes of innocent people.

The PIRA didn't shoot people?

junder

Dotsey wrote: »

these aren't the tactics of the PIRA they're adopting its more like the tactics of the UDA or UVF by wrecklessly shooting into the homes of innocent people.

It was a well know pira tactic to target isolated Protestant family's along the border area in an attempt to drive unionist family's out of the area

FUNKY LOVER

Ha what a joke.

The 500 uvf who attacked the residents of the short strand besieging families with their kids in homes for days might be a reason for the return to the dark days.

Every time there is something in the news about republicans it ends up here from the usual suspects but when its loyalists nothing nada.

Unbelievable.

junder

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

Ha what a joke.

The 500 uvf who attacked the residents of the short strand besieging families with their kids in homes for days might be a reason for the return to the dark days.

Every time there is something in the news about republicans it ends up here from the usual suspects but when its loyalists nothing nada.

Unbelievable.

Seem to remember quite along thread on this site about the events in east belfast. However what I find interesting is we have a attack on a family whose only crime it appears is to be related to a psni officer, but rather the condemnation it appears we get almost a justification for it because of what loyalist have done in the past. What I also find interesting is that the events in east Belfast reached the national news while this attack only gets reported in a local newspaper, but such is the price of peace I suppose

Hannibal

junder wrote: »

It was a well know pira tactic to target isolated Protestant family's along the border area in an attempt to drive unionist family's out of the area

It was and is a well know loyalist tactic to target Catholic families whether isolated or not across the whole of the six counties in an attempt to drive nationalist families out of the whole area.

john reilly

KeithAFC wrote: »

If it kicks off again, at least we know who started it and they will have no one to blame but themselves. But they have next to no real support anyway. So they pissing against the wind.

if it does we can blame psni harrasing catholics in border areas now. just because they can as they were afraid to before the IRA ceasefire

Chuck Stone

junder wrote: »

I would not be surprised to see a retaliation from loyalist paramilitarys

Who will the murdering degenerates retaliate against?

Del.Monte

john reilly wrote: »

if it does we can blame psni harrasing catholics in border areas now. just because they can as they were afraid to before the IRA ceasefire

I thought that the PSNI is 30%+ Catholic now, so does that mean that they have special 'Protestant' units harassing law abiding, innocent Catholics in the border areas?

junder

Dotsey wrote: »

It was and is a well know loyalist tactic to target Catholic families whether isolated or not across the whole of the six counties in an attempt to drive nationalist families out of the whole area.

So that justifies this attack then?

john reilly

this whole thread was started in the hope of stirring up sectarian hatred by somebody who just cant move on

john reilly

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Who will the murdering degenerates retaliate against?

and will they be able to rely on the psni and british security for help this time. and would this not just bring unwanted attention to their drug dealing and criminal activites

junder

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Who will the murdering degenerates retaliate against?

Anything to say about the degenerates who have hosed an innocent family's house with lethal 7.62 mm ak47 rounds?

junder

john reilly wrote: »

and will they be able to rely on the psni and british security for help this time. and would this not just bring unwanted attention to their drug dealing and criminal activites

Is that those special Protestant units of the psni again. As for the British army ironically it's those dissidents that people seem to be falling over themselves to defend who are the ones that want the army back on the streets

Chuck Stone

junder wrote: »

Anything to say about the degenerates who have hosed an innocent family's house with lethal 7.62 mm ak47 rounds?

You failed to answer my question but I'll answer yours regardless.

Like the vast majority of people I want there to be no killing or shooting in the north and hope that not one person ever gets killed or injured again.

The conflict is over.

FUNKY LOVER

junder wrote: »

john reilly wrote: »

and will they be able to rely on the psni and british security for help this time. and would this not just bring unwanted attention to their drug dealing and criminal activites

Is that those special Protestant units of the psni again. As for the British army ironically it's those dissidents that people seem to be falling over themselves to defend who are the ones that want the army back on the streets

Well actually a report came out last week that ex ruc top staff have been recruited by the psni which isn't allowed,and there has been widespread corruption uncovered.

I'll stick up link once I am on laptop.

junder

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You failed to answer my question but I'll answer yours regardless.

Like the vast majority of people I want there to be no killing or shooting in the north and hope that not one person ever gets killed or injured again.

The conflict is over.

Then why not just say that in the first place

Chuck Stone

junder wrote: »

Then why not just say that in the first place

It wasn't asked of me. . I support the GFA. I don't think any weapons should be on the streets of NI and would like to see the PSNI fulfil its duty as a civilian police force.

________________________________________________________________________________

junder wrote: »

I would not be surprised to see a retaliation from loyalist paramilitarys

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Who will the murdering degenerates retaliate against?

junder

Chuck Stone wrote: »

It wasn't asked of me. . I support the GFA. I don't think any weapons should be on the streets of NI and would like to see the PSNI fulfil its duty as a civilian police force.

________________________________________________________________________________

As do i

woodoo

The dissidents really are getting desperate now. They want to drag it all back.

Unlike Junder and Kieth i am happy to condemn without condition the intimidation of any innocent catholic or protestant.

Border-Rat

They'll never be in the league of the IRA. One beef I have with the IRA is that they should've went full-on in their clamp-down against the RIRA (I believe it was 2000 or 2001). They should've destroyed them like they did the IPLO. Arguably they were their responsibility. They could've easily done it in 2001. Probably within a week. They killed the IPLO in one night. There would've been plenty of deaths, but making the omelette and all that.

From what I hear the RIRA/CIRA are infiltrated in every way required to control them by MI5 and are being kept as a fail-safe.

junder

woodoo wrote: »

The dissidents really are getting desperate now. They want to drag it all back.

Unlike Junder and Kieth i am happy to condemn without condition the intimidation of any innocent catholic or protestant.

Sorry to disappoint you saint woodoo but I am on record numerous times on this site condemning the actions of loyalist groups against innocent catholic family's. However in this instance it is republicans attacking an innocent Protestant family's house so didn't feel the need to condemn actions of loyalists since they were not involved in this perticuler attack

Chuck Stone

Border-Rat wrote: »

They should've destroyed them like they did the IPLO. Arguably they were their responsibility. They could've easily done it in 2001. Probably within a week. They killed the IPLO in one night. There would've been plenty of deaths, but making the omelette and all that.

I remember that. Decommissioned in one night.

I've often wondered what the result would have been if they had 'cleaned house'. There was a problem though that the IRA may have split in half if they had knocked out the dissident factions. It was a delicate time and it might have brought down the peace process and split the IRA which would have weakened the position of SF. Complicated and unpredictable.

From what I hear the RIRA/CIRA are infiltrated in every way required to control them by MI5 and are being kept as a fail-safe.

Fail safe? By who and for what?

K-9

Mod

Could we have more reasoned and argued posts from now on, one line, off topic and personal posts aren't helping the quality of the thread.

Fenian Army

The PSNI harrassment is unnaceptable but so is machine gunning a house.

blahfckingblah

the opening post in this thread is disgusingly biased, Id hazard a guess that most of the hostile replies were as a result of this and not in support of the attacks

Chuck Stone

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

Well actually a report came out last week that ex ruc top staff have been recruited by the psni which isn't allowed,and there has been widespread corruption uncovered.

Source?

Fenian Army wrote: »

The PSNI harrassment is unnaceptable

Source?

K-9

blahfckingblah wrote: »

the opening post in this thread is disgusingly biased, Id hazard a guess that most of the hostile replies were as a result of this and not in support of the attacks

As per the mod warning, can you expand more on how it is biased?

junder

blahfckingblah wrote: »

the opening post in this thread is disgusingly biased, Id hazard a guess that most of the hostile replies were as a result of this and not in support of the attacks

Ah shucks I forgot to try an emphasise with republican gun men and cone to
Understand that they were the true victims here not the residents of the household they shot up who at the end of day only have themselves to
Blame for being related to a Police officer :rolleyes:

Happyman42

Prehaps the OP should have called for an inquiry into the cause of the conflict in this situation. The politics of condemnation will not, and never have had any effect on the situation in Ireland. It is the refuge of the lazy fireside moralists.
The people vested with the responsibility to sort the issues are the people who should be vilified and criticised. There is patently obvious work to be done but they are all too anxious to be seen smiling and chuckling. The onus is on them to govern fairly and responsibly.

blahfckingblah

the whole post is structured in a way to portray protestants as victims of the sectarian ways of armed republican groups as the ways of old and only when to be honest theres nothing in that article to even suggest sectarianism, and unless there is evidence it is only negative for either the OP or the newspaper to read into or mention religion.

Maybe it would be more positive to focus on how to prevent these attacks and find out what the root cause of it was.

and no junder not 'emphasise with republican gun men and cone to' , maybe just accept that there may be a bigger picture

K-9

blahfckingblah wrote: »

the whole post is structured in a way to portray protestants as victims of the sectarian ways of armed republican groups as the ways of old and only when to be honest theres nothing in that article to even suggest sectarianism, and unless there is evidence it is only negative for either the OP or the newspaper to read into or mention religion.

Its a 2 line post from the OP.

It seems we are taking yet another step back towards the bad old days with dissidents shooting up a Protestant household because they are related to a Police officer, should they kill somebody from the unionist community I would not be surprised to see a retaliation from loyalist paramilitarys and before we know it we are sucked back into a the sectarian mire that we thought we left behind

A post worried about a return to the old days and Republicans targeting police officers and their families.

theres nothing in that article to even suggest sectarianism,

Its a Protestant family and the "IRA" specifically mentions targeting his family. I don't think that is necessarily the case, its debatable, debate it.

Maybe it would be more positive to focus on how to prevent these attacks and find out what the root cause of it was.

Please do so.

junder

blahfckingblah wrote: »

the whole post is structured in a way to portray protestants as victims of the sectarian ways of armed republican groups as the ways of old and only when to be honest theres nothing in that article to even suggest sectarianism, and unless there is evidence it is only negative for either the OP or the newspaper to read into or mention religion.

Maybe it would be more positive to focus on how to prevent these attacks and find out what the root cause of it was.

and no junder not 'emphasise with republican gun men and cone to' , maybe just accept that there may be a bigger picture

The 'bigger picture' as you put it, is that this attack represents an escalation in dissident republican activities, so far they have largely kept thier attacks within community own with catholic police officers being the victems of thier operations.

blahfckingblah

Well I did already state my point of view on sectarianism in the attack, there was nothing in the article to suggest it so theres no point in basing a thread on something that isnt in the article.
ok junder so with 'catholic police officers being the victems of thier operations' why so is it automatically sectarianism when they buck the trend, I find that its often over analysis of victims or attackers religion that results in sectarianism.

deise go deo

Happyman42 wrote: »

Prehaps the OP should have called for an inquiry into the cause of the conflict in this situation. The politics of condemnation will not, and never have had any effect on the situation in Ireland. It is the refuge of the lazy fireside moralists.
The people vested with the responsibility to sort the issues are the people who should be vilified and criticised. There is patently obvious work to be done but they are all too anxious to be seen smiling and chuckling. The onus is on them to govern fairly and responsibly.

Would those be the same people that the Disident movement have at no point given a chance to sort the issues, and are hell bent on preventing from governing fairly and responsibly?

Happyman42

deise go deo wrote: »

Would those be the same people that the Disident movement have at no point given a chance to sort the issues

It's only a wet week since people where saying the same about the IRA, UDA UVF etc.

FUNKY LOVER

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/viewpoint/psni-misconduct-figures-disturbing-16116907.html#ixzz1mFhAzrJt


Here is one ill put the other up tomorrow.

FUNKY LOVER

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/viewpoint/psni-misconduct-figures-disturbing-16116907.html#ixzz1mFhAzrJt


Here is one ill put the other up tomorrow.

Edit here we are

http://newrytimes.com/2012/02/29/audit-office-to-investigate-ruc-role-in-psni/

deise go deo

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's only a wet week since people where saying the same about the IRA, UDA UVF etc.

That's utterly irrelevant, what difference does it make what happened then?
I am talking about someone suggesting that those in positions of responsibility today who have the overwhelming support of both communities are somehow to blame for the attacks of a criminal gang.
It is compleatly dishonnest to suggest that elected representatives should be vilified for RIRA attacks, the RIRA is responsible, not the political system they are trying to destabelise.

Happyman42

deise go deo wrote: »

That's utterly irrelevant, what difference does it make what happened then?
I am talking about someone suggesting that those in positions of responsibility today who have the overwhelming support of both communities are somehow to blame for the attacks of a criminal gang.
It is compleatly dishonnest to suggest that elected representatives should be vilified for RIRA attacks, the RIRA is responsible, not the political system they are trying to destabelise.

What you need to ask yourself is 'Why' do those in power have the overwhelming support of both communities.
Because they are mandated to fix something that was wrong, that 'something' which caused the conflict.
They haven't, because the conflict still exists for some people.
But sure, moralise and condemm away while the thing goes up in flames around you like before.

K-9

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/viewpoint/psni-misconduct-figures-disturbing-16116907.html#ixzz1mFhAzrJt


Here is one ill put the other up tomorrow.

We don't know the context or even what the disciplinary action was for.

What exactly are policing boards for? The ones that there was a whole fuss over internally in SF a few years back?

The old police board in the late 70's played a big part in outing Castlereagh and the eventual ECHR decision.

Chuck Stone

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/viewpoint/psni-misconduct-figures-disturbing-16116907.html#ixzz1mFhAzrJtHere is one ill put the other up tomorrow.

There doesn't seem to be anything political in the the disciplinary actions?

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

Edit here we are http://newrytimes.com/2012/02/29/audit-office-to-investigate-ruc-role-in-psni/

That's disgraceful on many levels but I don't see how it is really relevant to the OP.

Fenian Army

Anyone who thinks that the PSNI is a 'normal' police force is sadly mistaken, many of the 'bad eggs' are still there. Will be a while yet until it is fit for purpose. Ten years and a name change hasn't solved everything, these things take time.

There is a degree of harassment, I've heard many accounts. Not as bad as the old days of course but it still happens and is wrong. Shooting up a house is also wrong and solves nothing, it's counter productive.

charlemont

Scumbags, Those people don't deserve this drama in their life's, Real hard men shooting at innocent families in an isolated area.

deise go deo

Happyman42 wrote: »

What you need to ask yourself is 'Why' do those in power have the overwhelming support of both communities.
Because they are mandated to fix something that was wrong, that 'something' which caused the conflict.
They haven't, because the conflict still exists for some people.
But sure, moralise and condemm away while the thing goes up in flames around you like before.

Ah, those people have activly tried to prolong and extend the conflict, they never accepted the majority decision to 'fix the causes of the conflict'. They have activly and violently tried to obstruct exactly that, and continue to do so, and you are saying that those in power are responsible for Disident violence for not doing something to fix the issues the disidents have never wanted them to fix, have never given them a chance to fix, and have worked hard to prevent them from fixing, and indeed are trying to make worse?
That is nonsense.


If someone is unhappy with the situation, thats their business, it is rubbish to balme society for how they feel, and it is utter childish rubbish to hold society responcible for their actions.
The person carrying out the violent attacks is fully and totally responsible for their actions, and it is they who should be vilified and punshed for them.
We live in a Democracy, rule of the majority, you don't have to like the majority decision, but you do have to abide peacefully by it.

junder

blahfckingblah wrote: »

Well I did already state my point of view on sectarianism in the attack, there was nothing in the article to suggest it so theres no point in basing a thread on something that isnt in the article.
ok junder so with 'catholic police officers being the victems of thier operations' why so is it automatically sectarianism when they buck the trend, I find that its often over analysis of victims or attackers religion that results in sectarianism.

Other then the fact that it was an attack on a Protestant household

john reilly

junder wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint you saint woodoo but I am on record numerous times on this site condemning the actions of loyalist groups against innocent catholic family's. However in this instance it is republicans attacking an innocent Protestant family's house so didn't feel the need to condemn actions of loyalists since they were not involved in this perticuler attack

what about the actions of the ruc and british army. do you condemn these?

john reilly

junder wrote: »

The 'bigger picture' as you put it, is that this attack represents an escalation in dissident republican activities, so far they have largely kept thier attacks within community own with catholic police officers being the victems of thier operations.

so it is accceptable if they are catholics then

john reilly

junder wrote: »

Other then the fact that it was an attack on a Protestant household

now we are getting a clearer picture